Hi D Do you have a thread of your own? Gemby

Hi dpac123 Natworst are a big organisation, it is easy for them to lose documentation. From what i can gather you are in court over a loan? First and foremost they are obliged to supply you with a CCA. If they do not have this documentation they have no stance in court. The onus is on them to prove that such a loan existed, if they cannot provide the docs then they cannot prove it. In my case, when i pressed for the CCA, it became obvious that they could not provide it and therefore their case fell apart. Stick to your guns and insist upon a CCA. If they cannot provide it then their case falls apart. Good luck for tommorow and may the little man win! Gemby

Good luck Zendrix Let me know where your new thread is Gemby

Sorry its section 136 of the LOPA 1925

Hi Zentrix9 I am no expert in this but i can try and help. Firstly are you sure the claimant is Santander, or are HC acting for Lewis Group to claim for a Santander credit card account? If Santander sold the account there would be no need for them to take you to court. The assignment of a debt is not valid unless a notice of assignment is sent to the debtor. This is governed by the Law of Property Act 1925. If you google Law of Property Act 1925, check out section 135 Legal assignments of things in action. Technically if you haven't been sent a notice of assignment, the transfer of the debt is not legal and therefore could be challenged. I hope this is of help Gemby

Hi Consumeredge Thanks for the reply. Its a bit late for my case now, i lost back in early March. CL Finance sent a Notice of Assignment (not MBNA the OC) and i argued that it was invalid because the amount was incorrect (it was for £5 more than the debt). The barrister sent by Howard Cohen's was put on the spot with this and said "I would imagine the extra £5 is down to administration charges applied by CL Finance". (An absolute crock) But the judge took his word for it and i lost. I kind of think the odds were stacked against me from the start. In her summing up the judge said "The Consumer Credit Act was put in place to protect consumers...It is not there as a way of avoiding debts" I did look into the merits of an appeal (and your info would have been helpful with that), but the costs of appealing are just too great for me to consider it. Keep up the fight Gemby

Hi davetherave12 Good news to hear of your victory. I am in court this week with MBNA/CL Finance/Howard Cohen and would welcome some help. I have read through your witness statement and noted several similarities with my case. Can you let me know which points you won on as this may help with my trial. Many thanks Gemby

Thanks for that mystery1 Its a great help thanks Gemby

Hi niknakszaks Did you manage to find W F HARRISON -V- BURKE AND ANOTHER ??? i too am looking for this case and cannot locate it. Any help would be appreciated Gemby

Hi manchesteruni Thanks for the reply. I have been helped out by the site team who have reposted my thread Cheers Gemby

Hello I started a thread about a month ago entitled "In court with MBNA will my defence stack up?" There hadnt been any posts recently but yesterday i re-read the thread as there was a post which is very important to my case. I have gone back into my subscribed threads this morning only to find that it has been removed. Can the site team help in any way? The post is vital to my case. Thanks Gemby

So then on this basis all i need to do is back up my argument with examples, convince the judge that i know what i am talking about, and i will walk it! Easier said than done eh! However if i quote CCA and relevant regulations with my limited understanding of the law, am i just going to get bowled over by the claimants solicitor and the judge? As a LIP do i get any special treatment or am i expected to be up to speed? You mentioned 100+ cases that have not succeded are any relevant to my circumstances?

Hi pt2537 I have read through those posts, thanks for that. Gemby

Hi pt2537 and buzby OK now im confused! pt2537, i am inclined to agree with you that the creditors have a duty to be 100% accurate and that they only have themselves to blame if they are not. Do you have any links to he cases you refer to? I have scanned the beachcomber60 thread but it does not seem to give the reasons for the win. I cannot find the klg80 thread. I am currently defending this as a LIP, do you know of any CFA solicitors to take on the case? I was using a CMC but they bottled out at the first fence. buzby, whilst i totaly understand you point of view, it makes sense that a judge will rule for the creditor, after all they are out of pocket, but surely the judge still has to abide by the laws laid down to protect the consumer?

Yes i think so. Its because i have not disclosed a list of documents

Hi all and Happy New Year I see i am on dodgy ground on some of the defence, it could well be down to the judge lottery. I have been reading through the OFT guidelines link from rebel11 (thanks for that rebel11) and have come across a point, which may help, and would value opinions on this. In response to my s.78 request they have provided a recon agreement, a copy of what they think are the T&C's at the time of the agreement and a set of current T&C's. The agreement however has been varied. Judge Waksman ruled that where an agreement has been varied the creditor/owner must provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms. The OFT confirms this, the duty is to provide a copy of the agreement as originaly executed as well as documents showing the variations. Their response to my s.78 request is incomplete and they are not permitted to enforce the agreement whilst the failure to comply continues. I do not believe they have a copy of the original agreement because it has not appeared in my SAR or CPR requests. So if they cannot provide the original they cannot enforce....right??? re

Hi buzby & rebel11 Thanks for your replies buzby, the point i am trying to make is that the OC and the DCA have certain criteria to meet. i.e, issue default notices, provide a notice of assignment which is 100% correct, supply the correct set of terms and conditions. Surely if they do not do this to the letter they should not be able to enforce the agreement in court. Am I right? rebel11, i have a hearing on 13 January. The hearing is because i have not complied with a court order to disclose documents. This is because the DCA have not complied with my CPR 18 request for information and i have been unable to compile my documents to disclose. Thanks for the info link which looks to be of help. Gemby

Hi all Im due in court soon over a credit card debt and need some help. At the start of the court action my defence was being handled by a claims management company, who have since taken the easy option and run. So i am now continuing on my lonesome. My original defence was based on the DCA non compliance with a s.78 request, however the DCA have now complied with the request....or so i thought. They have sent a recon agreement along with two sets of T&C's. As far as they are concerned they have met thier obligations and are continuing to proceed in court. Since taking on the case myself i have received a SAR from the DCA, this confirmed the recon agreement and both sets of T&C's. I then sent a CPR.18 request to both the original creditor and the DCA. The DCA have refused to comply with this request, but the OC sent back thier reply which brought up some interesting points.... 1. The OC closed and then sold the account before the date i had been given to rectify the account in the default notice. 2. The amount owing on the notice of assignment is different to that owing when the account was closed. 3. The T&C's sent by the OC are different to those supplied by the DCA. 4. As the agreement has been varied they are supposed to send a copy of the original agreement, as per Waksman ruling, but they have failed to do so. Are these valid enough points to win in court? Gemby

Hi seriously fed up and gh2008 thanks for your replies I need a some time to digest your comments and will reply later. In the meantime, sfu your comment on application forms and section 59. are you saying that an application form is void? Gemby

Hello Ive been reading this thread with interest, on and off, since it began and could do with some help. I am in Court over a credit card and the DCA have only provided me with a recon agreement. This is after SAR and CPR requests. This thread seems to be split over whether a copy of the original agreement needs to be provided for court action. The DCA have taken me to court so do they have to provide the original??? Thanks in advance Gemby

Hi citizenB Did you have any luck in locating the MBNA docs? Gemby

Hi vic and citizenB vic thanks for your help, i have done as you suggested and contacted citizenB on the site team for help. citizenB, i have sent you a PM...i havn't started a thread on this as yet as i am just researching various points at the moment. Any help with locating the MBNA documents will be gratefully received. Gemby

Hi Vic Thanks for the reply Either i am really thick or blind or dislexic but i have clicked on library and there is nothing in the navigation box on the right that mentions MBNA docs. Am i missing something? Gemby

Hi Guys Could someone please direct me to MBNA copy documents. I have tried following the link on the sticky at the top of this page but it just leads me to Page 1. Thanks Gemby

Hi vjohn82 Thanks for that