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Everything posted by huxleypig69

  1. I wonder why it is that the same bank will honour the cancellation on some occasions and not others (as in my case)? They know the rules, why are they only applied on certain occasions? The reasons for not refunding an unauthorised transaction do not apply to me in any way (and the bank is not claiming so).
  2. Oh WOW. EXACTLY this. The say it would be 'unfair' to the bank to make them repay the cancelled CPA. But all the things I have said are unfair (like the unarranged overdraft they forced me into) they quickly jump onto it being hidden in their terms and conditions, unfair or not. I have sent them the exact rules, cut and pasted, along with lots of backing from the FCA etc. The FOS are not fit for service. The decision has gone all the way through the FOS procedure and they've gone along with it! Their reply to it was (and I have this in writing) 'it is not the job of the FOS to enforce laws'!! I have since complained to the FCA about the FOS and they said they have no jurisdiction over the FOS but they have noted (what does that mean?) the Halifax are not refunding cancelled CPA's. The bank have also said that my 1st Right of Appropriation is to be ignored because I benefitted from being forced deeper into debt I never asked for...go figure. Having looked at the list of possible BCOBS actions it is like they are going through the list, ticking them off. Well, not quite but they have been very, very naughty. They know it (or maybe the genuinely think they are right) but won't admit it.
  3. I am just wondering what is a reasonable amount to go for. I have poured well over 100 hours into this and there's my credit score damage, DCA's hounding me (when they shouldn't even have my details according to their own rules), having to find a new bank etc. This has been going on for nearly 3 years now. How much is a solicitor going to cost?! What they're saying is, the CPA rules are not relevant. At all. Because their version of allowed CPA cancellations are only when it is fraud. They're just crazily digging their heels in! Here's a great quote from my most recent letter from Halifax: "...However, as the said CPA payments were genuine payments, I can confirm you benefitted from it leaving your account." :lol: Yes, you read that right. Remember, at this stage they had already put me into an unplanned overdraft (unfairly in my opinion) and I had cancelled the CPA.
  4. Hello guy/gals I have news on this case. And I am just dumbstruck. So the FOS and the bank are refusing to reverse the CPA transactions that everyone agrees I clearly cancelled. Everyone (even the bank) agree I cancelled it. They refuse on the grounds that it was for a 'genuine transaction' (if it was not genuine then we would be talking about theft/fraud). So they're saying it does not matter if you cancel a CPA, if they subsequently allow the transaction to go through (no matter what the amount or your available funds) then they will not reverse it if it is a 'genuine transaction'!! They ARE wrong about this, right? So my only option now is BCOBS court action which I will be starting in due course. If the FOS and the banks will not stick to their own rules then I am going to have to force them to. I am also claiming damages for their unfair practise of promising me it was impossible to ever go overdrawn on my account then letting The Money Shop take over £300.00 when all I had was £5.00!! Then stinging me for charges etc! I am also taking them to task for sending my details to many DCA's whilst the case was 1) with the FOS and 2) now - as in, the rules state that they are not allowed to do this if the debt is in dispute. Which it clearly is. I am also taking them to task for threatening to close my account should I exercise my 1st Right of Appropriation. The list of their wrongdoings (both breaches of the rules and unfair practise) is really quite long now. The amount of time and effort I have had to put into this rubbish when they were in the wrong to start with is just incredible. All going on the bill...
  5. Latest laughable update on this - I received an email from Simon Coe, Head of Casework Teams for Banking and Credit. Once again he completely dismisses my complaint, saying (and I quote): "You have also said it is our responsibility to enforce laws. Our role is not to enforce laws. It is to independently consider disputes between consumers and financial businesses - and reach our findings based on what we feel is fair and reasonable in the circumstances. Ombudsmen consider the relevant regulations and laws" Now is it me or that a complete contradiction? That is the whole crux of my complaint, that they have NOT considered the relevant regulations and laws! In fact, they've completely ignored them, as if they didn't exist! Next step is the independent assessor but I am not holding my breath. Regarding BCOBS, this is taken from a BBC story (and is appropriate in my case by being forced into and 'unauthorised overdraft'). It was originally taken from this site apparently and is a circumstance where you might take action under BCOBS: "Your bank has refused to allow you to have a "planned" overdraft because of your poor circumstances. However when a forgotten direct debit pushes you over the edge, the bank allows you to have an "unplanned overdraft" and you start incurring charges at a higher rate that plunge you into a spiral of debt." And that is before I even bring up the fact that the refused to refund the clearly cancelled CPA transactions. BCOBS needs to be more widely publicised. No wonder the banks want you to go down the FOS route. In fact, why have the FOS not once EVER mention BCOBS? Or the banks? Strange, that.
  6. So there has been some more progress with this case. I have been going up the chain of the FOS complaining but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. They hide behind the excuse that they can't change or look at the decision (even though I have been at pains to point out that I do NOT want that to happen anyway) without answering why the are not applying the law, then go on to say that I can complain to their line manager about it. I've had 3 of these replies from the FOS now, each one as dismissive as the next. So I have put a complaint in to the FCA and they have said that all they do is make 'rules' and 'guidelines' and cannot comment on how the FOS choose to interpret them! Like they require any interpretation! The FOS ombudsman even agreed that I cancelled the CPA's but insist that because it was for something (and not completely fabricated, ie, stolen) then it didn't matter! It would be 'unfair' to ask the bank to reverse the transactions! Unfair! On the poor mistreated banks! No thought to the fairness or otherwise of the banks' behaviour (and the admit that they broke several guidelines and procedures during the whole process) and no consideration to how unfair it was forcing me to borrow money from them via an unauthorised overdraft (yeah, unauthorised by ME) when I was explicitly told that it was impossible (the whole reason I took out the basic account) just because it is vaguely mentioned in their generic terms and conditions. No, 'their hands are tied' when it comes to that but when it comes to having it the other way around - it would be 'unfair' on the bank - even though it is in black and white! I just don't know what else to do. How do you fight them? Court action? I am poor, I have no money to do that, whilst conversely, they have as much as they like to throw at their defence. After all, taking your money is what they do. Their online database of final decisions is currently up to the 24th July and my decision was made 31st July a nd so I estimate that it will be available for all to see in about a week. It details that I DID cancel the CPA and also that I should not receive a refund of those cancelled CPA's. So they get to flaunt the law and have no comeback? Is that the way it is? Here is a link to the FCA's own website: http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel At the bottom it says if the bank ignore your CPA cancellation then you can complain to the FOS! I'm speechless. Is there any way I can get all of my correspondence with the bank and the FOS online and, more importantly, get the law enforced? What a complete joke. To top it off I now have the bank chasing me for the alleged 'debt' again! AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH.
  7. TawnyOwl, thank you very much for your reply and advice contained therein. You are right, I am not the type to be put off by waffle and excuses and I will take it far as I can. Following on from your advice I have raised my concerns with progressively higher levels of the FOS but all they seem to say is 'The Ombudsman's decision is final, we can't look at the detail of your case and it can't be changed'. Trotted out parrot fashion, hiding behind that as an excuse for avoiding the issue. So I very clearly point out to them from now on that I do not want the final decision changed, indeed, it serves as a shining example of their ineptitude. I want to know why they are not following the law regarding cancelled CPA transactions? As simple as that. Regarding the processing of automatic withdrawals, I was promised that it was impossible to be placed into an overdraft (the very reason I took out a basic account) and on 4 occasion The Money Shop tried and failed to do so due to lack of funds. Then when the whole amount of the loan (plus charges and interest) was allowed to be taken out, the bank gave the excuse that balance checks are not conducted every time (which I dispute) and could provide no answer as to why The Money Shop were refused on 4 previous occasions. No reason - don't know. Pass. Next question. But more to the point, what it amounts to is being forced to borrow money from the banks without asking for it or wanting it and with their interest and charges added on top of it (£6 A DAY). So everybody except you wins here - the payday loan companies get their money, interest and charges paid and the banks get to forcibly loan that to you, plus, once again, their interest and charges added on top. It's all a legalised fraud. When you look at the whole 'complaints process' it is often the banks' mistake (definitely in my case) but it is you being punished for it (credit score damage, stress through threats of court action, harassment from debt collectors etc). Then when it takes hours of your life, time and effort to try to correct it, it is only you who is NOT getting compensated! You should see the replies I have been getting from the banks and FOS, they're nothing short of complete disdain, the language used is 'slippery' in the extreme with what seems like every effort made to NOT answer the questions. I just don't know what else to say, I'm gobsmacked. I'd really love to publish it all just so the world can see how appallingly bad it all is. I've complained to the FCA about the FOS not following the law and their reply is even more laughable - once again stating that they have no power to overturn an FOS decision and that I should go seek legal advice from the CAB! Then they go on to say that the FCA appoints the FOS's board of directors to ensure the FOS's independence from the FCA but the FCA approves the FOS's budget! So how is that independent?! Most laughably, they have said that the FOS IS ultimately accountable to the FCA but their rules are only intended to be guidelines and they cannot comment on how the FOS choose to interpret those rules!!! Oh my life, how does make them accountable then?! And there is no 'interpretation' of the rules, they are very clear, simple and black and white. I am sick to the back teeth of getting fobbed off like this, it's completely inexcusable. All from bodies supposedly setup to be independent and to assure fairness. Why make up rules, guidelines, laws (whatever semantic game you want to play) if they 1) will not be followed and 2) those bodies are not accountable for not following them? It seems to me that the whole point here is to look like they are fair and independent when they are, in reality, not even close. They all seem to be on the same side. Isn't is a bit odd when you look at the number of FOS complaints upheld against the number that are not? The banks have it right most of the time it seems! Remember too that complaints to the FOS have (in most cases) already gone through the banks' complaints procedure so when it gets to the FOS complaints stage the customer must really have a problem. Add into that equation that many, many people will be put off by the whole hassle and added stress of complaining to the FOS and it makes it even worse. The FOS only ever see complaints from customers who have real grievances but still the majority of decisions are not upheld. I really am getting increasingly angry, frustrated and exasperated by the whole debacle. It's like complaining to the SS that Hitler has reneged on his peace treaties and getting passed from panzer division to panzer division and if you're lucky you might end up getting a letter from Goebbels telling you that they'll do what they like.
  8. This WAS upon appeal to the ombudsman! They just reiterated the 'unfairness to the bank' thing that the adjudicator had said originally! I've been reading through various decisions that the FOS have made and they're very quick to jump onto articles of law and section 3.3 subsection 7 of whatever contract you may have had without any consideration as to the morality of the situation but when it suits they completely ignore the law and make decisions on moral standpoints! And like you say, how laughable is it to say something would be unfair on a bank?!
  9. Well the FOS agree that I cancelled the CPA. Then say they can't ask the bank to reverse the transactions after my cancellation because I owed the money to The Money Shop. Complete ignorance of the FCA's rules. Date of decision: 31st July 2013. It is not yet up on their database of decisions but I can quote a bit here: "I can see that the disputed transactions would have reduced Mr X's liability to the The Money SHop so I cannot fairly require Halifax to refund the transactions to him." Unbelievable, eh? How would I go about getting the FCA to enforce their rules?
  10. It was an adjudicator and then it was escalated to an ombudsman (took nearly a year). All they have done it defend what the adjudicator said. So that's their final word! They said they're going to put it online (having changed all the names first) and so I am going to ask them to show me where it is so I can point out their massive failure.
  11. Quick update on this. I'm completely dumbfounded by the fos. Long story short, the FOS have ruled partially in my favour by telling the bank to pay me £55 compensation (joke amount!) but have said that although I clearly cancelled the CPA both verbally and in writing that it would be unfair to ask the bank to reverse the transactions (over £400's worth) because I owed the money to The Money Shop! If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff it does not make it ok just because you owe them money. If the FOS will not make the banks follow the law then who will? If the FOS is to be believed then the only was they will ask a bank to reverse a cancelled CPA is if the company taking the money is doing so illegally (you don't owe them anything). Now that is a different matter, it is theft, not the reversal of a cancelled CPA. So now I have the bank chasing me for the money I'm supposed to owe them again! I'm at my wits end here, the amount of time and effort I have had to invest into correcting THEIR mistake is massive now and I'm not having it any more. My question is, how can I get the law enforced here? SORRY IF THERE WAS A DOUBLE POST!
  12. Quick update on this. I'm completely dumbfounded by the FOS. Long story short, the FOS have ruled partially in my favour by telling the bank to pay me £55 compensation (joke amount!) but have said that although I clearly cancelled the CPA both verbally and in writing that it would be unfair to ask the bank to reverse the transactions (over £400's worth) because I owed the money to The Money Shop! If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff it does not make it ok just because you owe them money. If the FOS will not make the banks follow the law then who will? If the FOS is to be believed then the only was they will ask a bank to reverse a cancelled CPA is if the company taking the money is doing so illegally (you don't owe them anything). Now that is a different matter, it is theft, not the reversal of a cancelled CPA. So now I have the bank chasing me for the money I'm supposed to owe them again! I'm at my wits end here, the amount of time and effort I have had to invest into correcting THEIR mistake is massive now and I'm not having it any more. My question is, how can I get the law enforced here?
  13. My two penny's worth - I told Halifax in writing to stop any future CPA transactions. They did not do this (to the better part of £300) and now have the cheek to be chasing me for this 'debt' to them (plus charges and interest)! So I complained, it went to the FOS and they have now come back and said to ask the bank to return the transactions in question would be unfair! From this we can infer that any bank is well within its rights to repay any private debts you may have then charge you for it, even if you only have £1.00 in your account and no overdraft. It seems the FOS agree too. So basically the law and guidelines on this means absolutely nothing. The banks will carry on behaving as they wish and the FOS will back them up. Unbelievable.
  14. OK, so there's been a few interesting developments in this case now. The FOS have now gone back on their original decision and decided that the bank are right!! This change of heart was apparently because they now understand that I did originally take out a loan with The Money Shop! Despite being able to prove that I'd told the bank in writing that they were not allow ANY CPA transactions to go through, the bank allowed several of them. The FOS acknowledge this but say that it'd be unfair if I got those transactions back!! Unfair, lol. Against a bank! Despite the bank being grossly unfair when they took my benefit money. So if I told the bank both verbally and in writing not to allow any CPA's then the bank do the opposite, how can I force them to give me those transactions back? Because the FOS think it'd be "unfair" to ask them to do this. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous. I've had the same sort of worming out of questions from the FOS as I did from the bank. They ARE a complete waste of time.
  15. Wow, well those charges have racked up a lot since their original mistake! £6 a day for being in an unauthorised overdraft (their OWN charges thrown back at them!) comes to several thousand now, lol! [edit]
  16. A quick question regarding this case - the Halifax have informed me that if a debt or transaction is in dispute (even with the FOS) then they continue with their recovery process regardless - close the account, register it with the credit reference agencies and pass on details to DCA's etc. Now I believe this to be a bit of a porky pie and extremely bad practise on their behalf. Surely this is not true, is it? It wouldn't be the first untruth that they had told. If something is in dispute then surely the outcome of that dispute must be reached BEFORE any of the above actions are taken, right?
  17. The banks are behaving really, really badly regarding this. As soon as my (ex) bank, Halifax, heard the words 'The Money Shop' they switched off and refused to help in any way whatsoever. I have since been victorious against them and it's going to end up costing them plenty in return but it took a long time and they knew they were in the wrong from day 1. Despite 'exhausting their complaints procedure' and ignoring me etc, etc, etc. They're complete idiots, fight this legalised [causing problems] if they've gone into your account without permission and taken funds that they're not entitled to. It's like the banks are even happy to be party to it all.
  18. Just a quick update on this: The only thing keeping this matter out of the small claims court is the complaint to the FOS. Despite this the Halifax have reported me to the credit reference agencies and passed the 'debt' onto some debt collection agency who are now (ironically) threatening me with legal action! The bad news for the bank is that the FOS called me today to say they agree with me and that the bank have behaved disgracefully! So I'm getting all of the transactions reversed along with the maximum (that the FOS say) that they can get on top, which is £300. Pathetic IMO, they can afford thousands and I'm not sure if I should take it to the small claims court anyway for more money. Apparently they sent an offer of settlement to the FOS along with all of the letters between us (before any investigating had even taken place) so they know they're in the wrong here. They're going to have to pay the cost of taking my entry off the credit reference agencies too. Can I get anything back for them wrongly setting the debt collection agencies onto me? Still, victory is victory, don't back down from these idiots and bullies people.
  19. I've had worse issues with Halifax, I'm currently taking them to court. They are worse IMO.
  20. Agreed, BY LAW the banks must comply. But they still refuse!! What do you do, call the police?! Because I can really see them trooping on down to Halifax to sort it out! I've already told the FOS, no reply as yet...
  21. I had a similar thing with Halifax. They KNEW the money was my benefits but still flatly refused to give any of it back. After going through a complete waste of time with their complaints department it is now with the FOS and I'm initiating small claims court proceedings against them. They're total idiots, the Halifax said in future I can specify where my benefits go but if I do so more than once then they'll close my account!!!
  22. Oh, I already have another bank account and I've already started court proceedings against them. They informed me that they had 'exhausted their complaints procedure' so I'm taking them to court. I'm MASSIVELY out of pocket because of what they've done, including not having access to vital benefit payments.
  23. I have tols them this twice now and in both replies they simply ignore what I've said regarding the law. As if I hadn't said it! Blinkers...
  24. I sent Halifax written instructions to never pay any CPA's and they sent it back to me in writing that it's simply not possible. Lies, flannel and rubbish. These charges are sure mounting up quickly against them!
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