Hi all, My vehicle was clamped recently on a private car-park (the car park is actually for an entertainment/shopping complex and is advertised as free-parking) and I had to pay £125 to have the clamp released for parking in a "hatched" area. This is basically a parking bay but with lines through it, and no I didn't park in a disabled bay. I paid up almost immediately due to the clamper stating, "the tow trucks been called, if your car gets towed away then it will cost you £375, but if you agree to pay now, then it will be JUST £125". So off to the cash point I went... But prior to agreeing to pay, I genuinely did not see the signs posted saying that your vehicle will be clamped if you park in a "hatched/disabled/non-parking bay". Now I don't dispute that I parked in a "hatched area" bay, but I GENUINELY did not see the signs. I pointed this out to the clamper, and his colleague, clamper two, said "it doesn't matter if that sign was on a post 50 feet in the air and on an A4 size paper, once you've entered this car park you agree to the rules". Now is this 100% true? The sign was about 24yards away on a lampost, and after it was pointed out to me (as I really didn't know the sign was there) plus the fact it was dark and raining, I couldn't even read what was on it. It was only after I walked up to it with clamper one, then was I able to read what was stated on the sign. It was at this point I agreed to pay the release fee as I didn't want any extra hassle. Clamper one said I can appeal, all I have to do is write to the company as stated on the sign. I mean, if I knew that my vehicle would be clamped for parking in a hatched bay, then it defies logic for me to park there. I parked there because I thought nothing would happen to be truthful. I was not aware there was a clamping procedure in operation because I DIDN'T read the sign! Anyway, this is where I need some help and advice if all could be so kind. I wrote to the clamping company (Total Car Park Management Ltd.) basically asking what is the appeals procedure and how do I appeal? I also stated that I have evidence to support my claims etc. (however I didn't send these in because I just wanted to know what the appeals process was first). The reply I get from them is what made me really angry! They simply write, "having reviewed all the data relating to the matter your appeal has been rejected". End of story! But I'm there thinking, hang on, I haven't even appealed yet! I haven't even gave my version of events, or submitted my photographic eveidence, all I did in my first letter was ask what the appeals process is! Also, clamper one said to me that the appeals process is carried out independently, but I was somewhat dissapointed to find out that all appeals are reviewed by their own in-house team, which can hardly be called independent! I plan to write back to them and also to the management of the complex, who I believe are also the landowners. This time, I plan to ask them nicely for the refund, and if not, then I will be submitting a claim in the county court. Before I do this though, could you advise whether you think I have any chance at all? I genuinely didn't see and therefore didn't read the sign, so have I entered into a contract with them agreeing to having my car clamped if I did park illegally? The photos I took are fairly good quality. It clearly shows the sign to be quite some distance away, and there's no way you can read what is on the sign from where I was standing in front of my car, especially when it's dark and raining. I mean, if I have a fairly good chance, then I will take this all the way in the court. It has become a matter of principle now, rather than the money, especially after reading their reply! Any advice or help greatly appreciated Tony

Ta mate.

mate, which spreadsheet did you use?? i could do with one myself!

usually about £30 for 1st visit and £39 for second visit. that's what jacobs normally charge in my experience... those fees you've quoted definitely aren't right. write to their head office (by post and email) and ask for a breakdown of fees. has the council cashed your cheque yet? they may reject your payment and say "its with the bailiffs". if the council has an online payments system then use that. they wont be able to reject your payment there also, when you do write to jacobs, ask them to confirm that the bailiff they sent is certificated and ask them which county court issued their certificate. a form 4 is a serious issue. in all cases, you should try and resolve the issue with the bailiff company first. only if you get no where then should you file a form 4 complaint. just one more headsup, i know people still working at jacobs still actively read these forums...

I know that all PCN issued after April 08 have to conform to a certain standard etc. I know that if the PCN was issued with even the wrong colour then it can be appealed. (is that correct?) Now does this apply to PCNs issued before April 08 as well?? If the colour was stated wrong, then is this enough for grounds of appeal?

Finally received a reply from Halifax for the SAR I sent... They didn't even send me anything! They just asked... what is it you need exactly? I sent a copy of HHNF SAR request originally: (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/118145-sar-ppi.html), which I thought was really good. I mean, I sent Barclaycard a SAR and even they sent me a little something at least! Any ideas on how I should approach this? Should I just send them another copy of HHNF's SAR request?

Finally received my SAR the other day... They have only sent statements for the last 6 years! They say that they do not have anything else on file, nothing at all... The account has been open for at least 15 years. I was then thinking... should I ask for a copy of the original credit agreement? Is there something along the lines of that if they don't have a copy, then you're not liable for the debt or something like that? Or does that not apply to credit cards? Now all the statements clearly show PPI etc. so if they say they don't hold anything longer than 6 years, I'm just thinking about all the PPI already paid for the previous 9 years etc. Any tips on how I should approach this or the next step?

Hi all, Just a quick question..... I know that a Form 4 is to be used against a bailiff. But do you need a different form to complain against an actual Bailiff firm/company and their charges? The bailiff (who applied the fees) doesn't work for the firm in question now you see, but the firm themselves have admitted the overcharged fees. (obviously the firm received all the monies in the end). Any ideas? Ta...

Hi, After a long wait, I've finally received a breakdown of fee's applied from Jacobs. They are in relation to PCN's and I paid £899.48 in total for 2 tickets. I know a little about The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) (Amendment) Regulations 2003 and I know they can charge letter fee, 1st visit, 2nd visit etc. However, I definitely think I've been overcharged. Here is the breakdown exactly as they have sent me: May 19 2008 - PCN £95 - VAT £0 Jun 5 2008 - Visit fee 1 £30 - VAT £5.25 (as the amount is under £100 shouldn't this be £28 and not £30?) Jun 12 2008 - payment by debit card £2 Jun 12 2008 - Attendance/Van £80 - VAT £14 (didn't know they can charge this, also I or my brother didn't have a car with which they can levy with at the time) (pcn's were from 2007 no cars on our drive) Jun 12 2008 - Visit fee 2 £39 - VAT £6.83 Jun 19 2008 - Porter fee £60 - VAT £10.50 (what is this?) Jun 19 2008 - Waiting £91.20 - VAT £15.96 (again, what is this?) Which totals £449.74... One of the things is, I paid on the Jun 12th, so why are they charging fee's on the Jun 19th? I called them up to dispute the fee's, and the girl I spoke to clearly didn't have a clue about The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) (Amendment) Regulations 2003, and basically said I needed to put they query/dispute in writing... Which is what I intend to do, however I wanted to be clear on everything before I replied to them. I've already paid these so I'm simply seeking to get a refund on the overcharging. Would submitting a Form 4 be the best way to do this? Any advice greatly appreciated....

SAR typed up, £10 cheque included, ready to post. Thanks to sound advice from HHNF and AA. Will keep all posted as and when any updates are received.

carlosmaderos, my brother has been in a very very similar situation to you. he moved out of my house, so i was still receiving his parking fine debt chasing letters from the bailiffs here. and guess what, they were in unsealed envelopes so i could read them. also, because i didn't know the law or my rights back then, i foolishly paid the bailiff on behalf of my brother (although he never asked me to) because of the threat of removal of goods etc. i paid a total of £899.48 for TWO parking fines. after doing a bit of research and also from some brilliant advice from here, i know that they were defintely overcharged. my advice to you is DON'T pay the bailiff at all. if you do speak to him again then simply tell him that you have requested a breakdown of charges from his office, and until you have received that breakdown then you will not be able to make an offer to progress the matter. don't be afraid of them or their empty threats. he will try anything and say everything to try and get you to pay. just ignore it. secondly, if you don't want the bailiffs going round to your mum's address, then you've just simply got to tell equita your new address. don't be too worried about this though. for parking fines, they CANNOT break into your house by force. just make sure you lock all your doors and windows. and if they do come round then dont open the door. simple as. however, don't keep your car near your new address though, they can clamp it. finally, just writing a simple letter to equita would suffice. just say that you understand that you have some PCN's outstanding to your name and car reg, and that you would like a breakdown of charges applied to the account/case. explain in your letter that you will not make a payment to either the office or the bailiff until you have received this information. send a copy of the letter to the council which issued the parking fine aswell. then you'll just have to wait for their reply before you consider your next step...

thanks for the advice aa, much appreciated. i'll follow that thread then, then i'll wait for their response...

Hi all, I'm just helping my mum with a PPI claim I've already started. I'm new to this so please bare with my lack of knowledge. I've already sent a letter to Halifax explaining that the PPi was mis-sold as my mum didn't even know she was paying for this. Another reason I wrote down was that when she was working, she was self-employed and also she has medical conditions. So even if she knew she was taking out PPi, then the policy wouldn't have paid out if she made a claim etc etc. My question is, how long back would she be able to claim for? I'm sure she has had her Halifax credit card for more than 10 years. Or is it only something like the past 5/6 years she can try to claim back? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for that jamberson, you've been a great help. I think you've just highlighted what I thought deep down really. I thought it might have come down to their word versus mine, and obviously with no records, I know it has a very slim chance of success. I've updated my brother on this and I've already told him to get a breakdown of what my payment was for. Just waiting for Jacobs to reply before he considers the next step... but I personally think £900 for 2 PCN's is a bit too much!

Thanks for the reply. 1. From my point of view, I made a payment for a fine which I WASN'T liable for. (all PCN's are to my brother). Hence I wanted to see if I could get this back by small claims. 2. From my point of view, they acted improper because the bailiff made threats and gave me misleading information which resulted in me paying said fine. He stated that although my brother no longer lived here he still had the authority to come and remove any goods to pay off the fines. Obviously I didn't want this to happen and I didn't want to cause any unnecessary stress to my elderly mother if they did come and I was at work. 3. From my brother's point of view, the bailiffs acted improper because they kept posting numerous letters addressed to him without envelopes through the door, obviously I could read the contents. I called up the bailiff and he was happy to discuss everything with me about all the fines and amounts etc. I thought there was something about not being allowed to discuss the issue with anybody else apart from the debtor themselves? e.g. data protection act etc? Their letters clearly state private & confidential aswell. Anything to go by or am I clutching at straws?

Hi all, I'm just trying to help my brother sort out a few parking fines and I've got a few questions if anyone can help. Is there anyway you can get the debt/fine referred back to the council because of the bailiffs conduct? i.e. pay the council instead of the bailiffs due to the bailiff breaching guidelines on how they should act and chase the fine? Also, I paid a fine to Jacobs bailiffs which wasn't mine (my brothers). I didn't pay it on my brothers behalf (he never asked me to because he moved away). I only paid it because the bailiff kept posting debt chasing letters through the door but WITHOUT envelopes (so I obviously could read the contents). Therefore I called up the bailiff and eventually only made the payment because of his threats (didn't know as much back then). I also made the payment on the basis that it would be clearing all his PCN's. Now it turns out there's still a load of PCN's outstanding to my brothers name. My problem is that all this was just over the phone and I never got anything in writing. I've called the local authority but they're not helping at all (shock horror). They just go you've got to speak to the bailiffs. My brother wrote to Jacobs and they confirm that they received my payment. He also requested a breakdown of what this £899.48 payment was for exactly but he didn't get an answer to this when they wrote back. I also still have my bank records when this payment was taken. What's the chance of me getting this payment returned in the small claims court? And if there is a chance, how would I go about doing it and is there any relevant parts of the law I would need to state? Would it probably be better if my brother submitted a SAR to the bailiffs first so he has more detailed information? (i guess this would be useful for me too?) Ta.

Hi all, Just a quick question... Does the OFT guidelines for Debt Collection (Final guidance on unfair business practices) issued July 03 (updated Dec 06), do they apply to Bailiffs and the companies they work for aswell???

Thanks for the reply ambershadow and blurredfx. Yeah, I just didn't know the law and how it worked back then. I just saw Bailiffs and Removal of Goods on their letters and thought I'd better sort out that lil gits mess before it even got messier! I will call the Council tomorrow and get in touch with tomtubby on here. Hopefully she can offer some advice if she isn't too busy.

Hi all, I'm new to these forums and I've been browsing about and I'd just like to say what a great place it is. This is my first post so your help is very much appreciated. (At this point I'd like to say I think it WILL be a long post!) Right, think this might be a bit complicated but any help welcomed. My brother had a number of PCN's over a year and a half ago, but he moved abroad about Feb 08 without paying them. He was receiving a number of letters so I just kept them aside as they were addressed to him. However, around June 08 time, numerous letters addressed to my brother were being hand posted but either in unsealed envelopes or without envelopes at all. These must have obviously been by the visiting bailiff. Now, although clearly marked Private and Confidential, I was able to view the contents of the letters addressed to my brother, which were threatening removal of goods and demands for payment etc. Obviously I was extremely worried about this and I wanted to avoid these problems. Therefore I called up the bailiff on the letters and I explained that my brother no longer lived here and that I was willing to help with the payments to avoid the threatened action. Now I didn't know exactly what the debts were for so I queried them with the bailiff, he explained the amounts and that they were for unpaid PCN's. Therefore, after more discussions with the bailiff, I agreed to pay £899.48 on the basis that this would be clearing all the unpaid PCN's. This payment was taken out of my personal current account a few days later and I thought that was the end of all that. Now my brother was still receiving numerous letters but I just kept them to the side. Fast forward to Feb 09 and a few more unsealed letters from Jacobs were posted through the box. Now these letters were from a different bailiff, but still working for Jacobs. Therefore I called up this new bailiff to query the situation and these further demands for payment. He explained that they were for unpaid PCN's, and I queried how many PCN's there were and the amount. He told me this information and again I explained to him that I made a payment last year on behalf of my brother and that my brother no longer lived at this address. I explained that it was pointless him chasing these debts as my brother didn't live here anymore and I wasn't prepared to help him pay for them this time, and that was the end of the conversation. Fast forward to now and my brother has now moved back. I discussed this briefly with a friend of a friend who works at CAB and they said that I can ask for my money back as simply put I paid for a debt which simply wasn't mine. My brother wrote to Jacobs at the start of this month to explain his situation, that he has now moved back, he wants to pay off the debts, complained about how this clearly Private & Confidential was discussed with me, queried what the payment I made was for and that I would be asking for it back, and asked for a statement of account of outstanding PCN's etc. He also wrote to the council asking for the same info but he still hasn't heard back from them. He's now had a reply from Jacobs and they simply state that they confirm that all letters are posted in sealed envelopes. That was it into the complaint my brother made about the conduct of the bailiff. (After reading other posts on here, I thought DCA's and bailiffs weren't allowed to discuss clearly Private & Confidential matters with work colleagues, neighbours or even family members?) Now it turns out that my brother has 6 PCN's to his name (6 x £187.51 = £1125.06), and I'm assuming that my payment wasn't used at all towards the payment of these PCN's as they are still outstanding. Jacobs state in their letter that they confirm they took my payment of £899.48. They also state that I can have this payment back BUT only when my brother has cleared the outstanding debt. Now my question is, what is my legal position with getting my money back? And how should I go about doing this? Will I need to get a solicitor and will I need to take them to court? They clearly state in their letter that they know they've taken this £900 payment but I can't have it back. Not just yet anyway, not until my brother has cleared the fines. Now I know my brother doesn't have the money to clear them all off at once, so if they were to stick to their word, I know I wouldn't be getting my money back for another long time! Also, if my brother did have the money to pay the outstanding sum of £1125, I'm worried Jacobs wouldn't pay me back my £900 after they've received the £1125 payment! What really annoys me is that I only made the payment because of the hand posted and unsealed letters. If they weren't posted like this in the first place then I wouldn't have known and made the payment! And I only made the payment after discussing with the bailiff that my payment would be clearing off all my brother's PCN's. Now I know that this was only a verbal conversation and it wasn't in writing, but I thought the payment would have been allocated to paying most of the PCN's at least. Jacobs simpy respond in their letter that the bailiff is no longer in their employment so they can't respond to these allegations. Finally, my brother stated in his letter that he wouldn't be able to make any offer of payments until he has received a statement of account from both Jacobs and the parking section of the local council so that he can match them off. His reply from Jacobs is that they demand payment within 7 days or they will take further action. Now my brother still hasn't received a reply from the council and the 7 days is almost up, what can he do? Should he simply reply and tell Jacobs again that he can't make any offer until he has also had a reply from the council? Also, my brother remembers the PCN's date back to roughly Oct-Nov 07. The statements he has received from Jacobs state the 6 PCN numbers, but they date them ALL to the same date of 20th Oct 08. Simply put, these PCN's were no way issued on this date (didn't have the car and wasn't in the country for starters). Can he dispute this fact or is the date just the date that Jacobs first issued these statements? But the thing is, this can't have been the first date Jacobs chased up these debts because I've still got the letters from when I made the payment in June 08! If you have got to here then I know this was a really long post but I would like to say thank you for your time and ANY help is really really appreciated. Thank you once again. Troubled by bailiffs Montana.