From today's Sydney Morning Herald...

Fairly I am a union rep and will recieve free

Legal representation along with anyone else

That is in a union so it will be fairly resolved.

I'm sure it won't come to it, but are you sure your union will pay any legal fees? In my experience, such representation is confined to legal advice and / or representation in matters arising directly from your employment but not from your personal financial affairs...

Assuming that there is no court judgement on this debt, it will have been stat barred under NSW legislation two years ago (i.e. 6 yrs after your last payment or written acknowledgement of the debt).

As above, even if there is a court judgement, this is a civil matter and therefore will not be picked up on any police search.

It is very unlikely that your actions could be interpreted as fraud since you made repayments on this debt for two years.

No doubt someone else will chip in, but if you are up against a DCA, I suggest you stand your ground and maintain that you informed both Egg and HSBC of your move. If they didn't make a note of it then that's their problem and they ought to have disclosed this information when they sold the debts.

It will be tough when there is no written proof but it would not be unreasonable for a bank's customer to assume that passing on this information in a phone call or by a visit to one of their branches ought to be enough for them to act upon. Isn't that why they have "Customner Service" desks and helplines? Seems prtettty pointless if they don't act on information they are given...

Have you proof of the final payment payment date on the Egg account? The onus is on the DCA since if they cannot show evidence of any payments after this last payment then the stat barred defence should be OK. When Egg issued a default notice is irrelevant.

So to clarify;

1. You have 3 CCJs dating from Dec 2012, June 2013 and Feb 2014 but are only seeking to have 2 of them set aside
   
2. You are seeking a set-aside for an alleged loan to Egg on the grounds that it was statute barred when the CCJ was made but Egg disagree about when the 6 year countdown started?
   
3. You are seeking a set-aside for HSBC on the grounds that you were in the USA when the CCJ was made?
   
4. Both Egg and HSBC claim that you did not inform them of your move from the UK but you have no physical evidence to disprove this? You also say that it would have been very easy for them to contact you - surely this would mean that they had your US address or have I missed something?
   

Don't necessarily post it here, but has your solicitor given you any advice?

Are you sure it is actually EGG and HSBC who are chasing you and not a DCA who has bought these debts? It seems strange that such relatively small debts would still be on the banks' books some 6+ years after you stopped making payments and with absolutely no contact with you in the meantime.

One last point that may or may not be relevant. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when we moved to Aus we informed all of our creditors of our new address but Egg was the only one who did not amend their records simply because their system would not recognise a non-UK address. Might be worth checking to see if this was still the case in 2006/7.

Bank fodder is correct - it is not automatic for a set-aside to be granted.

Whilst living abroad is a very strong defence, it is up to the defendant to make their case as convincing as possible

As anyone who has had any dealings with the legal system will confirm, a judge, magistrate or whoever can only base their decisions on the arguments presented to the court by both parties.

If the case before them is apparently 100% likely to succeed but there is nothing presented in evidence, no matter how much the magistrate might wish find in their favour, their hands will be tied.

The issue of set-asides being granted in these circumstances is a grey area. In my dealings with posters on this and other forums, there are usually two distict categories of case.

The first is where the poster has moved abroad and informed their creditors of their overseas address at the time. When they later default, the creditor goes for a CCJ based on their last-known UK address even though they have been communicating with them at their overseas address. Whilst this is an abuse of court process and is pretty certain to be set aside, the defendant still has to submit enough supporting eveidence with their N244 for the magistrate to make a decision.

At the other end of the scale is the situation where the creditor has left the UK without telling their creditors who then, acting in good faith, apply for a CCJ at what they have to assume is the current and correct address.

This is where the magistrate will need proof that the creditor is being completely honest in their assertion that they knew nothing about the pending proceedings and could therefore not have informed the court to tell them that they would be unable to defend the claim in person.

In these situations, "the court documents went to my mum's house but her dog ate the letter" isn't likely to impress...

Equally unlikely to be well recieved are cases where the defendant has been dealing with their creditors over a period of time and the threat of legal action is already in the air prior to the unannounced overseas move.

Bankfodder's second point about the magistrate's awareness of the consequences for the creditor of a set-aside is also very true.

You can have a valid CCJ against anyone in the world through the UK courts.

Sorry - but that sounds like a contradiction of Practice Direction 7C which states;

Claims which may not be issued through the Centre

2.1 The Centre will not issue any claim form which is to be issued in the High Court.

2.2 The Centre will only issue a claim form if the claim is for a specified sum of money less than £100,000.

2.3 The Centre will not issue any of the following types of claim –

(1) a claim against more than two defendants;

(2) a claim against two defendants where a different sum is claimed against each of them;

(3) a claim against the Crown;

(4) a claim for an amount in a foreign currency;

(5) a claim where either party is known to be a child or protected party within Part 21;

(6) a claim where the claimant is a legally assisted person within the meaning of the Legal Aid Act 1988;

(7) a claim where the claimant’s address for service as it appears on the claim form is not in the United Kingdom;

(7A) a claim where the defendant's address for service as it appears on the claim form is not in England and Wales;

(8) a claim which is to be issued under Part 8.

I agree that if a CCJ is already in existence it may be (theoretically) enforced anywhere in the world that has a recipocal agreement with the UK but getting a CCJ against a foreign resident...I think not.

The whole point of a County Court hearing is that it is held in the court that is closest to the defendant's home address so that they may appear in person - hence the requirement that address for service of court documents is in the UK.

The case of Berevosky v Abramovich to which you refer was heard in the High Court, not the County Court, and the sums involed were in the region of a million times greater than the debts the OP discusses.

It would assist if we knew who the OP's creditors may be. If, as I suspect, they are credit card or other consumer debts then they can ONLY be dealt with by the County Court which has jurisdiction only within the UK.

Unfortunately it is likely that the loan agreements will all contain jurisdiction clauses granting the creditor the ability to sue you in England regardless of whether you live there or not.

Although the OP has not stated it, I am assuming that the debts are standard consumer credit debts and would therefore be covered by the CCA which specifically states that only the UK County Court will have jurisdiction.

Since a valid CCJ cannot be made against a UK debtor who is living in the USA sueing the OP in a UK court would seem to be pointless, dead end route for any creditor as they would be unable to enforce any judgement in their favour.

I agree that the fact that there is property in the UK confuses the matter.

 

You need to think ahead. If you win the set aside hearing(s), you will need to file a Defence for each case and there will then be hearings booked to decide on whether you owe the money in each case.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if a set aside is granted on the grounds that the CCJ was improperly made against an overeseas resident who had already left the UK at the time of the original judgement, will this not preclude any further attempts to enforce judgement in a UK County Court for the very same reason?

I assume this relates to debts in the UK and not the USA?

Your credit rating cannot be transferred to the USA so nothing to worry about on that score.

However, if your UK debts are substantial and you have equally substantial assets in the US, your UK creditors may try to chase them.

As far as actually going BR, if you've been living outside the UK for

I suggest you seek professional, unbiased advice to explore your options.

Well done and good luck...please keep us up to date with any developments.

 

I am guessing that a debt for a person gone abroad, is worth less than for one where the debtor is still in the UK.

A subtle change to the wording of your post and you've hit the nail on the head as far as DCAs are concerned.

Amend "worth less" to "worthless" and lose the rest of the sentence!

I'm surprised that your relative's banks and CC statements were not sent to an overseas address. The only one of our creditors who didn't change our details was Egg but that seemed to be because it was a web based service and their system didn't accept any change of address for non-UK details.

You shouldn't need to contact a UK solicitor just yet.

Contact the UK Courts service and request a copy of form N244 which is the first step in getting the CCJs set aside. You'll need to complete a separate form for each CCJ but other than the case reference, all the details you will need to enter will be pretty much the same.

Read this

Do it ASAP and stress the point that your tardiness in responding to the judgements is due to the fact that you have only just learned of their existence.

I assume your last UK address is not the same as the property on which there is a CA? If so, you'll need to explain why you did not receive any court documents sent to that address.

When you return the forms, make sure you have attached as much supporting evidence as possible including copies of all correspondence sent to your creditors informing them that you were moving overseas, a copy of your US residency visa and a few utility bills to substantiate your claim that you have been living in the US for 7 years. What would be a knock-out blow would be any letters / statements they have sent to you in the USA!

Not sure what the filing fee is these days but certainly a lot less than an hour or two of a solicitor's time!

Remember that you can always talk to the UK court officers themselves for advice...

EDIT: Just noticed your comments about these CCJs being stat barred.

Debts such as yours will indeed be stat barred after 6 years.

However, whilst a CCJ will eventually drop off your credit report, it can never be stat barred - it will just become increasingly harder for a creditor to act upon the longer they leave it to the point that is effectively meaningless. That said, if they have already acted upon the CCJ to obtain a CA, that point is moot.

Credit Corp are known for their tenacity but they should not be discussing details about this debt with anyone except YOU.

You don't say where you are but it may be that they are on a fishing trip and trying to track you down? If it's a small debt and you are outside Aus, I wouldn't worry too much.

As above, the NSW SDRO processes fines issued by police, council and the RMS. They don't chase tax bills - that would be the ATO which is Federal rather than state.

If you're sure it isn't consumer debt then it may be regarding failure to vote in the recent election but in that case you ought to have been contacted by the AEC who would have sent an "apparent failure to vote" notice to which needs to be answered within the given timeframe.

Of course, if you didn't get this letter they may have taken the matter to court in your absence and you could have been stung with a fine for $200 or so.

I would agree that this is that it is more likely to be regarding unpaid fines or parking tickets but I am surprised that they would go to these lengths.

The only way you're going to know for sure is to contact them.

How long have you been away from Aus?

Just curious - Will this legislation be retrospective or apply only to NZ Student Loans taken out after (if) it gets passed as law?

Presumably there would need to be something referring to the amendment included in any loan agreement signed by new student borrowers.

Morning Mummy,

Looks like it's going to be another hot and sticky one today - Hope you're not affected by the VIC bushfires...

Did you take a look at that thread? If you did you'll know that whatever happened in the UK will have no impact on your Aus finances or credit files.

First things first. Apart from your mortgage lender, do any of your creditors know you're in Australia? If they do that's not a bad thing because it means they cannot legally try for a CCJ back in the UK. The only downside is that DCAs will be able to contact you but whilst very annoying, these can be ignored. (Trust me - I know!)

You say you haven't spoken to the DCA that has been calling you but it is quite possible that it is about your UK debt. Facebook and other social media make easy to track people across the globe and the larger DCAs have their own very sophisticated software to do the same.

That said, don't assume that every one of your UK creditors is chasing you. The most tenaciuous DCA I encountered (and by that I mean a couple of phone calls and one letter a year!) was chasing a debt for less than $2000 whilst I never heard a squeak from the one that was owed 10 times that.

Unless you want to speak to them, do NOT answer their security questions. Tell them you're not interested in anything they're selling and hang up. It is a BIG no-no for an Australian DCA to harass you for a UK debt but it is quite likely that the calls will be coming from a UK's DCA call centre in India

Although not exactly the same as credit cards or personal loans, your mortgage will be covered by similar UK legislation (FSA as opposed to CCA) which means that all legal actions your mortgage lender took to reposess your UK home would have been via the County Court system.

In theory, if they were granted a money judgement for the shortfall this could be lodged in an Australian court but if your lender knew you were emigrating, I would wonder whether they would bother seeking one. There would also be the question of giving the court your last known UK address which (from what your post implies), would seem to be at the house they had just repossessed...

By the sounds of it you're making ends meet but have no significant assets here in AUS so there is absolutely nothing to be gained by any of your UK creditors making you bankrupt.

If peace of mind is what you are after and have a spare $1000 or so, then maybe look at BR but it will impact upon your already secure position over here.

As UncleB says, you still have just short of 11 months in which to go down that route but that door closes for you (and your creditors) on 23 Jan 2016.

Stop worrying - Will post my thoughts tomorrow but you have nothing to lose sleep about.

In the meantime please read the sticky about UK debts being enforced here in Oz. I know it isn't totally on-topic, but it is a good background on what is and isn't possible and ought to put your mind at rest.

Just out of interest, when exactly is your 3rd anniversary of leaving the UK?

Due to the vagaries of the Australian motor insurance system (which are significantly different to those of the UK) it would be helpful to have more details from the OP. Since the accident happpened in August, I imagine there would be a fair amount of correspondence.

The main difference between the UK and Aus is that whilst drivers must prove they have a "Greenslip" or Compulsory Third Party (CTP) insurance to rego (tax) their vehicle this, unlike the UK's 3rd party, fire & theft, does NOT cover damage to other vehicles or property, only people.

If you're a not at fault driver with comprehensive insurance and you're involved in an accident with another driver who does not hold anything more than a Greenslip, your insurance company will have pay for any damage to your vehicle and then make a claim against the other driver to recover their costs - taking them to court if needs be.

If neither you nor the other driver has insurance, the other party can't or won't pay and you can't afford the repairs then you're pretty much screwed. The only way you'll get any money out of them is to hire a lawyer or take them to court yourself and hope that if you win they have enough $$ to cover the repairs and your costs.

Because it happens all the time, the courts are geared for it and will routinely issue orders for wage garnishment or property to be seized to pay the bill.

On the face of it, the OP appears to be the uninsured, at fault driver but because of the lure of easy money and the widespread level of confusion about who pays whom and how in the event of an accident, smaller insurance companies who have already been paid by the at-fault driver's insurance may try to take advantage of their ignorance and double-dip. Threatening legal action against the driver if they don't pay the alleged repair bill isn't unknown. (Bit like unscupulous DCAs chasing stat barred debts).

Assuming the claim is genuine, as Uncle B suggests I'd recommend that they contact the insurance company and tell them that he has left Australia for good, is living in the UK (as proven by the registered envelope) and cannot currently afford to pay $22,000

No worries.

Have a beer (or two) for me.

Does anyone have any answers as to what I can expect when re entering the U.K?

Cold, wet weather, good fish and chips and a decent pint of beer.

Whether or not you have a shonky CCJ registered against you makes not the slightest bit of difference to your visit.

As opposed to deliberate fraud, simple consumer debt is NOT a crime and doesn't impact on your ability to enter and leave the UK at will. (The only exception to this would involve undischarged bankruptcy but this has nothing to do with this thread)

As I've pointed out in the past, if travellers with debt, credit card defaults and CCJs were stopped at the border, the entire UK travel industry would crumble and countless detention centres would be needed to house all those holiday makers who weren't allowed back into the UK after their fortnight in the sun.

You don't say when you last made a payment but I assume it was prior to leaving the UK in late 2008? If so, by the time of your planned trip in mid-2014, the debt is on the verge of being stat barred anyway.

Adding to the first reply, this debt of just 3,500 GBP is chicken feed to the bank and thus not worth chasing. Worst you can expect if and when any desperate DCA ever finds you is a half-hearted phone call which you will ignore.

Enjoy your trip.

As Uncle B says, (and I assume you already know) when you move to Oz, you or your sponsor have to lodge a bond for each member of the family with the Australian Government.

This is held in trust for the first couple of years that you live in the country to ensure that if you claim any benefits, the government can claw it back.

Assuming you don't make any claims, then you'll get the whole sum returned.

How you came by that money is of no interest to the government - all they're concerned about is that you are able to support yourself as a migrant and you certainly don't need to tell anyone about credit card debts in the UK.

This is where you need specialist advice. You should not need to come back to the UK to appear in court in person to declare yourself bankrupt. It does not make any sense anyway, because you would not be a resident of the UK and could not spend time with the court appointed official receiver. How would they deal with the fact that you are not in UK ?

 

I have a feeling that because you have had an ongoing financial interest in the UK ( the house that is being sold), that there are rules that make the 3 years being out of the country not applicable, so you could still apply for bankruptcy in the UK from overseas. I am sure that I have read something along these lines, but I would stress that I am no legal expert.

If you have been out of the country and have for more than three years you cannot apply for banruptcy even if you use a UK agent.

However, if you come back to the UK and appear at the court in person on the day of your hearing, you can declare bankruptcy at any time - even after the three years is up.

As far as having financial interests, the bankruptcy hinges on where your centre of main interest (COMI) lies. If you have lived, worked and paid taxes in NZ for the past 3+ years, then clearly this is your COMI.

It may be different if you had significant business interests in the UK but simply owning a house doesn't fall under this rule.

The whole point of the 3 yr rule as I understand it is to prevent other EU nationals taking advantage of the UK's comparatively fairly relaxed bankruptcy legislation by hopping over the Channel for a day and decaring themselves BR and thus wiping out all debts in their home state.

Finally, they are wrong about the 6 yrs stat barring. The clock starts ticking either from the date of your first missed scheduled payment or from the date your creditor issued you with a default notice and NOT when they stop chasing it.

DCAs have been known to try to collect debts decades after they after they have been SB'd but this doesn't mean they become enforceable.

If you make any payment, no matter how ssmall, within this period, the timer goes back to zero.

FYI - The rule on bankruptcy is a two way street.

You can't apply for bankruptcy if you've been out of the country for thee years but, for the same reason, your UK creditors can't apply to have you made bankrupt either.

This may well be the case for some claims that are not the usual unsecured (i.e.credit card and personal loan) debts discussed on this forum.

However, for all debts covered by the 1974 CCA, jurisdiction is strictly limited to the County Courts in England and Wales and by the Sheriff court in Scotland and neither of these bodies can pass judgement on anyone living outside the UK.

I have to admit that I am not 100% up to speed on the current situation for cross-border enforcement of consumer debt within the EU but in the case of the OP who is in NZ, there's certainly nothing to worry about.,