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Sad sam

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  1. Dear All Thank you for the advice/debate. As I promised I would update you on the appeal process. As you can see the Adjudicator covered my argument points, as unsympathetically as many on here advised (truth hurts). This hopefully will assist others in a similar position as to what works & what doesn't. This appeal concerns a PCN issued for being parked in a designated disabled person’s parking place without displaying a valid disabled person’s badge in the prescribed manner. M******** has raised a number of issues including the position of the disabled bays in this car park and the uneven surface over which disabled motorists have to walk. Whilst he may or may not be correct that these issues show a failure on the part of the Council to make reasonable adjustments for the disabled, in breach of the Equality Act 2010 and other legislation, I find they are not relevant to this appeal. M******** is at liberty to commence proceedings against the Council concerning these issues, if he chooses to do so, but the nub of this appeal is quite simple, namely that the contravention is being parked in a designated disabled person’s parking place without displaying a valid disabled person’s badge in the prescribed manner and this is a question of fact that has nothing to do with the position of individual disabled parking bays or the car park surface. A secondary issue, once the first point has been decided, is whether the signage on site is adequate to warn users of the disabled bays of the terms of use. The Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/682), as amended and the Local Authorities Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000 regulate the parking for disabled badge users on-street. In off-street car parks, their place is taken by the individual Councils’ Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs). There is no requirement as to the provision of parking in the Equality Act 2010. However, public bodies must not, in the exercise of their functions, “do anything that constitutes discrimination, harassment or victimisation” of the disabled. M******** seeks to argue that disabled parking means that all disabled should be able to park in a designated disabled bay, regardless of whether or not they hold, or display, a valid blue badge. However, as the government documentation that he has produced sets out: – “There is no automatic entitlement to a Blue Badge for those suffering from a mental, cognitive or intellectual disability: autism is one of the conditions most commonly raised in this context. Entitlement will depend on whether the condition causes an individual to be unable to walk or have very considerable difficulty in walking” so it can be seen that the entitlement to a disabled badge is actually strictly defined and is not generally available to all of the disabled. M******** poses the question as to whether a disabled badge holder can make a mistake and is it reasonable to be fined for a mistake? The simple answer is that if a disabled driver fails to comply with the terms of the Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) that regulates the parking in the car park that they are using, then even if that failure has been due to an innocent mistake e.g. displaying a valid disabled badge face down; knocking it on the floor when getting out of the vehicle, then a contravention will have occurred and a penalty will, in principle, be due to the Council. To deal firstly with whether or not a contravention occurred in this case, under the terms of Article 12 of the relevant TRO, if a vehicle is to be left in a designated disabled bay without a contravention occurring, it has to display a valid disabled badge in the relevant position, which is on the fascia or dashboard so that the front of the badges legible from outside of the vehicle. There is no dispute between the parties that that did not occur on this occasion. M******** argues that the Council has failed to make reasonable adjustment for the disabled in the requirement that a valid disabled badge has to be displayed. I am afraid I cannot accept this as if there was no requirement to display a valid disabled badge, anyone could park in a disabled bay and then argue that they had a disability, which would drive a coach and horses through the provision of disabled parking. I am satisfied that the badge on display in the vehicle when it was seen by the CEO had expired on expired 1st October 2016. I am also satisfied that having expired, the badge was no longer valid and that being so, that the contravention occurred. As to the second issue, namely the adequacy of the signage on site, the sign at the entrance to the car park shows a wheelchair symbol and then the wording “free parking for up to 3 hours”. It is not until a motorist gets to the Tariff Board that this wording is expanded so that it sets out that in order to have free parking for a disabled user, a “valid blue badge must be displayed”. It may be implicit within the use of the wheelchair symbol that a disabled badge is expected to be displayed, but the question is whether or not that is sufficient to warn disabled users that they cannot use the bays unless they have a valid disabled badge and display it in the vehicle. I do not believe that it is. It is a simple enough matter to add the words shown on the tariff board to the signage at the entrance to the car park and then there would be no room for misunderstanding. Having seen the signage as it stands, a disabled driver would be justified in thinking that he/she had no need to do anything else to comply with the requirements for the use of a disabled bay and would certainly have no need to go to the tariff board and see the conditions that that set out. In all of the circumstances, I am not satisfied that the signage on site was sufficiently clear and unambiguous and that being so, I also cannot be satisfied that the contravention occurred. That being so, this appeal must be allowed and M******** does not have to pay this penalty charge. Appeal allowed. I threw the all and the kitchen sink at this. I hope there is enough information within this thread to assist others. Good luck
  2. The Council refer to my descrition as agaist Traffic Management Act 2004 S78. As I read it the TMA ONLY covers "management of road networks" not OFF road! FYI http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72053947 I look forward to your objective comments.
  3. Thank goodness back on track with sensible meaningful debate. I totally agree with your sentiment and position. Separately: Is it reasonable to go to the shops & demand you return home to get the badge you forgot to bring with you, when disability means it is a struggle to get to the shops in the first place? Or to just pay up? Waste of bandwidth? Or fraud prosecution for displaying a BB? Some of the vitriol spewed by some posters has been disgusting. Others in a similar position will read this and be so disheartened. Some with sever financial issue & some see it as a cash cow for middle men. Or is it a fairer situation that were you forgot to bring your badge, or forgot to display it, that the legitimately issued PCN is revoked upon proof of a valid BB? Seems like a reasonable adjustment. Take heart - The Equality Act takes precedence over any 'contractual' term. If you are unfortunate to be in a position whereby you can legitimately park in a disabled off-road car park, with a valid up to date BB & get a ticket for not displaying it, dont worry. I will post the outcome once my case is reviewed at the appeal stage.
  4. On another site I have found specific references to applicable acts & presidential legal cases. I knew I was in the right. The Equality Act takes precedence over any 'contractual' term. As the judge stated the Operator had a legal duty to make a reasonable adjustment' for a genuine disabled person, that an Operator's terms & conditions to display a Blue Badge would circumvent the Equality Act 2010. Its a shame this threat was hi-jacked. If knowledgeable people had input it would have been done & dusted on page 1.
  5. With out those that challenge equal rights we would have none. Us disabled .... OMG. Sorry I do not believe your fable. Learn the definition of fraud. Its my badge, no fraud. If there are Equal rights to protect Disabled persons, how then have I done anything wrong. You write like a keyboard warrior. You are totally unbelievable.
  6. So eloquent. Clearly you have not read my first post. OMG talk about going of topic. I have a BB, so how do I relate to your solicitor friend.
  7. Did that as I stated & got nowhere, hence I asked for further advice. Its in my first post!
  8. Waoh, I didn’t expect some of the abrupt replies. I got a jist of the position and yes, I have sent of my NtO appeal. As I have previously said it would be nice if there was clear advice to the disabled to assist when parked, say in an instance where you forget to display your badge. I would have liked to see some precedents quoted, but not 1 has been offered, even though you refer to them! I asked for anyone’s knowledge re ECHR or Equality and Human Rights Commission, as other sites seemed to state that the BB position is not enforceable, if you are registered disabled. But the replies seem to ignore this. The thread has eroded with many just dishing out personal ridicule rather than meaningful advice. Firstly, the park & bays state Disabled free parking. There is NO clear sign regarding the BB requirement. This seems to be forgotten by many or not even read. Around Warrington there are many parks all with different requirements, some only requiring the clock, so try to remember every different requirement for every park, especially if the requirements are not displayed.
  9. I must say I am surprised at some of the replies. This situation is bigger than this 1 instance. What happens when you forget to place your badge? Or your dog knocked it down. In any of the cases if you have the legal right to a disabled bay, why should a PCN be upheld. I agree and accept in any case were an officer cannot determine with certainty that a vehicle is being used for the carriage of a disabled person, it should receive a PCN. However once the authority receives proof that the vehicle was being used/parked correctly ie for the use of a disabled person then the ticket should Always be revoked. Mistakes happen, why should the disabled be punished for a simple error. That is not fair or reasonable. Parking on Council land is for ALL disabled. Equality Act is very clear on that as is Parliament. Section 149(4) states how this applies to the treatment of disabled persons: The steps involved in meeting the needs of disabled persons that are different from the needs of persons who are not disabled include, in particular, steps to take account of disabled persons' disabilities. Confusion, forgetfulness MUST hence be considered by LA. But I asked a question, if the BB scheme is clearly for ON-ROAD use, how can you receive a ticket off-road?
  10. I found this. I cant get the whole link, but search researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01360/SN01360.pdf Easy to read. CH 5 is interesting. There is no requirement as to the provision of parking in the Equality Act 2010. However, public bodies must not, in the exercise of their functions, “do anything that constitutes discrimination, harassment or victimisation” (section 29(6)). Is placing rule signage over 100m from allocated parking discrimination? The distance is further then the eligibility criterion for the BB! Beyond the question of discrimination is the public sector equality duty set out in section 149 of the Act. Section 149 provides that a public authority must, in the exercise of its functions “have due regard to the need to” among other things, “advance equality of opportunity between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it”. This involves having due regard to the need to “take steps to meet the needs of persons who share a relevant protected characteristic that are different from the needs of persons who do not share it”. Section 149(4) states how this applies to the treatment of disabled persons: The steps involved in meeting the needs of disabled persons that are different from the needs of persons who are not disabled include, in particular, steps to take account of disabled persons' disabilities. So a disability my make someone forget to use or misuse their badge, etc etc etc. The Public Authority MUST take due regard. Hope that helps others also
  11. Dear Disgruntled. You have spotted it exactly. The Sign in front of each bay is exactly as I have shown, JUST the Max stay 3 hours. In front of 5-10 bays is the advisory to lift access. There is No advisory to Blue Badge. Separately I reread the Blue Badge leaflet, which is quite clear (PG6): "A Blue Badge will help you to park close to your destination, either as a passenger or driver. However, the badge is intended for on-street parking only. Off-street car parks, such as those provided in local authority, hospital or supermarket car parks are governed by separate rules." How can a Local Authority then apply the BB scheme to an off street carpark? Hence Can a Violation 87 be issued properly on an off-street carpark? I note the Equality Act 2010 means that Local Authorities must make reasonable adjustments. The Equality Act 2010 does not include any provision for Blue Badge holders only vs any disabled parking to discharge the duty to provide 'reasonable adjustments' for parking. Limiting accessible bays in off street parking to Blue Badge holders only surely risks contravening the Equality Act 2010. The Equality Act says you should never be asked to pay for the adjustments. The BB scheme costs money to participate. If LA's demand BB surely that is against the Equality act? I wonder what the more learned out there think!
  12. This notification is at the other side of the carpark, away from the disabled bays, in no way visible to disabled drivers and in the opposite direction to were the disabled are directed. Hence my position if you have rules or requirements should they be prominently placed?
  13. Please find attached the entrance sign and the bay parking sign. Nowhere does the car park imply BB requirement, until you get the PCN through as it states it were others pay. However the disabled are advised to walk in a different direction to were that BB advisory is. The carpark is gravel & the charge point is about 100m+ from the disabled bays. Any thoughts. Entrance & Bay Signs.pdf
  14. Dear Ethel Street I to have unsuccessfully searched for the same case with no joy. But Even UK law is clear, the provisions are for the Disabled, not BB holders. As a BB holder I am therefore registered disabled. Dear Jamberson Truth hurts, but thank you. I have just received the Notice to Owner. Hence your assistance would be appreciated. I found a detailed case. Hard reading, hopefully helpful to some. Brain still turning. Case No: CO/505/2002 THE QUEEN ON THE APPLICATION OF LORD MAYOR AND THE CITIZENS OF WESTMINSTER and THE PARKING ADJUDICATOR
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