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About 3tea

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  1. The reason they are doing this is to call your bluff in my view, as they probably suspect you are still in the UK. I had the same problem with CapOne, and eventually I rang them. They stated that they could not accept a NZ PO Box as an address, quoting 'You can't live in a PO Box'. My response was that this was the address I had, I was not in the UK and could prove it, and basically do your worst etc etc.... The only real trump card they have is to retain the UK address in order to get the requisite CCJ they want. There is one thing that is commonly overlooked, and that is the HM Court Service website. When making a claim against a debtor, a creditor goes to the money claim web site of the Court Service and fills in a 'Particulars of Claim' section, whereby they set out what they are claiming and why. A prerequisite of the claim process is that the address for service of the summons 'appears to the Court to be in England or Wales' It actually states this is a requirement. Clearly an old address actually in England and Wales is precisely that, but if you have told them where you are, and have correspondence sent by them to your Oz address, then you can prove they know where you are. So if they then claim using a UK address they are effectively lying to the Court, which is extremely naughty indeed. It transpired that CapOne had done this to me when I received a summons redirected to NZ from my old UK address. I had 11 letters in my possession sent by them to my NZ address, and so contacted CapOne to say that I would be making a complaint to Police alleging that they may have committed a criminal offence. I contacted the Court about a week later to point out that the reason I had not responded to the Claim Pack was that I was in NZ, and had received it after the date by which I had to respond, only to find that CapOne had withdrawn the claim the day after I had threatened them.........Result!!!!! Not heard from them since.
  2. Go to this page and have a read. There are some countries where sending data is acceptable it seems, so I may be getting you to bark up the wrong tree.... It's all a bit vague and woolly, but it would seem that data to the US may be ok as long as the recipient of the data operates under the Safe Harbor scheme, which Bluestone apparently does according to their website. http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/principle_8.aspx cheers, 3tea
  3. I am in NZ and was following a thread last year whereby a load of people in Australia were taken to court by an Oz DCA for UK debt, and their Oz credit file was trashed. It transpired (I think) that the debts had been sold to the Oz DCA having had the personal data 'laundered' through Canada who apparently have some data exchange agreement with the UK. The Oz DCA got into some serious trouble with the OZ authorities as I think it suggested to the Court that the debts were legitimate Oz debts. So debt sold to a DCA in Canada, then on sold again. You may well find that this debt has been purchased by the US firm via Canada. I am not 100% sure about the above, but it certainly warrants further investigation. Data Protection breaches are quite serious, so I would check out what I have suggested. In any event, if they don't have a CCJ against you properly obtained in the UK, the debt can't under any circumstances be enforced in New Zealand. I agree with earlier advice, and this US shower have purchased a load of toxic UK debt and are chancing their arm. Inconvenient? - yes, Collectable-no
  4. I would contact the creditor in the UK and lodge a formal complaint that they have breached the Data Protection Act by releasing personal data to an organisation outside of the UK. I think you do it by contacting the Data Commissioner in the UK.
  5. Notmydebt, I don't wish to be rude, but my opinion would be that your son perhaps needs to take some responsibility for the mess he has left, and it should not be up to you to sort it out. He needs to tell them where he is, and immediately. I left debt in the UK, and all my credit files were registered at my parents house, so once I stopped paying, my parents got the full onslaught as you are experiencing. This mortified me more than anything, so I told the ORIGINAL creditors where I was first, and then followed it up by telling the Debt Collection Agencies as well. My Dad reported that within a couple of weeks, it all stopped, so this may be a quicker way of resolving the situation than trying to convince them your son is not living there. The original creditor retains control of the debt for a very long time, and generally they are better at keeping and retaining records than the morally corrupt DCA companies. Any information your son provides them will filter down to the DCA, who, once they realise where your son is will almost certainly give up. Hope this helps, regards 3tea
  6. Downfall, Don't get worked up by this, it is simply not worth it. I have been in NZ for 4 years, and my UK credit record was stuffed before I got here, primarily due to loss of job following an injury. This has not stopped me starting again and I now have a mortgage in NZ and a new life. The advice you have been given is very good, and I would reiterate that you MUST tell your creditors where you are. Firstly, get a PO Box address and give the creditors this.They will argue that they can't take it, but as long as you retain proof that you have told them you will be fine. I used the tear off slips from the credit card bill to notify a change of address, rang them and sent them notification by UK recorded delivery. I posted all the letters to my Dad in the UK in one envelope, he posted all of them out, and sent me the receipts which I have kept. All you will get is nasty, threatening letters from DCA's in your PO Box. They will threaten a doorstep visit which will never happen, and I am pretty sure that will be the end of it. As regards an Oz credit check, there is a little something called the Data Protection Act in the UK which prevents a UK organisation passing details overseas in such a way. I believe (but stand to be corrected) that Canada has some kind of data exchange with the UK which some creditors have used to sell UK debt to OZ DCA's by the back door. Even if this happens, and your debt gets passed to an OZ DCA, they will have no legal right to take you through the courts, as your debt was, is and always will be subject to the Consumer Credit Act in the UK. They could ask you for it, send letters to you and ring you up, but they can't legally enforce it in Australia. The only way they can, and the problem you will have is if you don't tell them where you are. Before you know it, you will have a County Court Judgement registered against you at your old UK address, and once they have this, then it can be passed to an Australian Court for them to pursue. If this happens, then you can apply to get the CCJ 'set aside' as you are out of the courts jurisdiction, but why go there when you don't have to? My advice would be to tell them where you are and leave it at that. If you feel morally obliged to pay them back, then do so. I stopped paying altogether as i could not afford to, and struggled with the morality of not trying to pay them back, but after trying for so long, and them failing to help or provide support, I stopped feeling guilty a long time ago. When they illegally threatened me and failed to comply with the law I stopped caring altogether. It worries me that you have got so down about it, and I hope this post goes some way to allay your fears and makes you feel better. All the comments I have made are from direct personal experience, so I feel qualified to make them. If you have any further specific questions, please don't be afraid to air them on here. You are amongst friends who have been there and 'bought the T shirt'. Regards, 3tea
  7. Taff, Glad I was of some assistance! I would imagine that by now, even if you had a CCJ given to you, that would have dropped off the system too, and F**k would be the expression I would use if I had stooped to be as lowly as a debt collector upon finding out my debtor had moved to NZ! Don't see you have a problem anymore other than the hassle towards your parents. My Dad gave me a bit of a moral lecture when the collectors came a calling, which is why I told them where I was. As the paper is getting less, and your Dad ain't bothered, just carry on enjoying NZ! Cheers, 3tea.
  8. I would echo this excellent advice and get out of the house if you can. If you default on your loans and still own the house, then HSBC and the Halifax will attempt to get a charging order against the property which will sit there until it is sold. This is very likely in your circumstances. This may not be a bad thing, as at least you won't be making loan repayments any more, and the creditors will have to wait until you decide to sell. They will then have second, and third bite of the cherry after your mortgage lender. If there is still money owed to them after the house sale, then it's not secured on the house any more, and they are left trying to chase you overseas for it. See my other posts for the likelihood of that! There is also a possibility that if they sniff there is substantial equity in the property then they could send a Statutory Demand straight away and force you towards Bankruptcy. No need for a CCJ and it can be served 'out of jurisdiction' This would mean the repossession of your house to repay the debt. Quite possibly an option if they are aware you have significant assets or wealth, but a remote possibility in my view. In your shoes, I would sell up and hope it made enough to cover the mortgage debt. As for the other loans you would no longer have any 'security' they could use, you would be overseas and would have told them so. They could not get a CCJ against you as they are aware you are in Oz, so they can't take any legal action and the debt would remain outstanding and pretty much uncollectable. The advice the 'charities' have given you is utterly wrong. An application to the Court for a summons MUST be to an address in England or Wales. If you go the the Court Service website and read the advice for claimants, it is there in black and white. The debt charities do receive funding from the creditors themselves, so the more cynical among us may doubt the impartiality of the advice given....... There can't be any legal transfer of bad credit data to your new country, and so there would be no impact on your ability to get a fresh start. I am not advocating debt avoidance, just pointing out the likely outcome if you followed this course of action. I could not repay a very substantial amount of unsecured UK debt and have been in NZ for three years with no repercussions if this helps to put your mind at rest.
  9. Not so far for me. None of my creditors got past threatening me with 'doorstep' visits in a generic letter. I have been in NZ for over 3 years and during the first year was getting at least three letters a day. It dropped off massively in the second year, and almost stopped in the third year. The only correspondence I now get is from Halifax, who quite correctly send me a notice every three months notifying me of my default status. All of the others have failed to comply with the law rendering any legal challenge hopeless anyway. The only notification I had in the last year was one creditor had sold a debt to Arrow Global, another UK debt collection agency. There was another thread regarding Oz where an Oz DCA attempted to take UK debtors to court in Oz. The debt had been purchased via Canada I think, as there is some agreement between the UK and Canada as regards the supply of personal data, and likewise between Oz and Canada. They also loaded bad credit data with the Credit Reference agency VEDA which caused a few problems. I do believe it was sorted out, and the DCA got into some trouble with the Oz authorities too. The fallout from all this, is that no one will want to take on debt from overseas if they can't collect on it. The Oz DCA got it's fingers burnt, so any DCA that buys toxic UK debt these days needs it's bumps feeling. My belief is that for years DCA's have got away with intimidation due to most people's ignorance of the law. Now people are better informed they are struggling to hoodwink people. I worried about it in year one. Laughed at the threats in year two, and now lament the lack of correspondence I get as I have to get newspaper to light the log burner.
  10. ScotinOz, Sorry for the delayed reply. Have not logged in for a while. There are a few things you need to be careful of I think. Firstly, the advice I would give is to check the situation regarding a creditor obtaining a CCJ in Scotland. What is written below, refers to England and Wales, and I would really find out from the Scottish Courts how your circumstances would be dealt with. My situation was in Wales, and in writing this I am presuming that the law in Scotland is similar????? In England or Wales, a creditor has to show that the address for the issue of the Summons is in England or Wales. Anything other than England or Wales, and they can't apply for it, and are pretty much stumped at this early stage in proceedings. You currently have all your Credit Cards at addresses in the UK, which in my view is quite a big mistake. As far as the companies you owe money to are concerned, you still live in the UK, and they will deal with you as such. This can mean that when you default on your minimum repayments, eventually a County Court Summons will be issued to the address held on the creditors files. A perfectly legal thing for them to do. By the time you know about it, you will already have a CCJ, and then have to go about setting it aside. A costly and difficult thing to do from your part of the world. Once any creditor has a CCJ in their favour, then the debt collection agency letters will arrive. A rain forest worth of them. Then the visits start to come, to a family members address??? When that does not work, then they will look for security elsewhere. So if you have a credit card say with Lloyds Bank, and a current account with them as well, then they will withdraw funds from the current account to pay off the card. If that does not work, or does not apply, then your house in the UK is in the firing line. Armed with a CCJ that you have not paid, then any creditor can obtain a charging order against your house, and when you sell it, they will get paid from any proceeds before you get a penny. Not a good plan. I have a friend in NZ that this happened to, and he was stuffed until I pointed out that the CCJ they had obtained had been sought at the address in the UK. He had not told the creditors where he was, so he had to set about getting the CCj set aside, and then the charging order. It took him ages, and a right old fight as he had to prove when he came to NZ etc etc. He had been here three years, the charging order was removed due to the incorrectly obtained CCJ, and he sold his house and got the money to NZ. The creditor had the rug pulled from under them, and got nothing. I should have charged commission..... You say you have been in Oz for two years? As regards them bankrupting you, then they can do it by serving a Statutory Demand on you even in Oz. They don't need a CCJ at all. It has become a common tactic of creditors to do this, as this frightens most people into paying up, as the last thing they want is to be made bankrupt. It is possible that this might be the opening gambit for them as they know they are stuffed with an Oz address, particularly if the amount you owe is substantial. Depends on the creditor really as to what they will do. However, I think you are a long long way off this situation, and two thirds of the way to home and dry too. The reason for this, is once you have been out of the UK and in in a non EU country (like Oz or NZ) for three years or more, then they can't apply for your bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a last resort, and will only be attempted by the creditor if they think that hey will win. They will start with default notices, then final demands, then the threat of court action (they can't take) and by the time the proverbial hits the fan, your three years will have arrived. It worked for me!! They are that unscrupulous they will package up your debt, and hide it amongst other debt, and sell it on to get some money back. The hapless buyer then 'owns' a debt they can't legally collect, and the best bit is that they payed the original creditor for it! Brilliant! So if you have a house worth 250,000 GBP and only owe 50,000 on it, then you can get ready as they know they will get their money back, and will bankrupt you to do so. You can therefore lose your house for a tiny sum in debt. What I would do, is follow the advice I previously posted and tell them where you are. give them a PO Box in your local town and let them send all the crap to that. By the time they get to a potential bankruptcy petition, then three years will have merrily skipped by....... What are you doing with your house, and do you have any equity in it? If you are going to sell it, and have equity in it, then in NZ you have to get your assets into NZ within 4 years or will have to pay tax on it as 'foreign income'. Might be worth checking the situation in Oz??? I don't think you have much to worry about at this stage as long as you tell them where you are as soon as possible. The last thing you want is to be using an address in he UK, such as parents or brother or sister as they will get all the fallout and doorstep visits from thugs etc. Be upfront and tell them where you are. At least then you will also know what they are up to! Cheers, 3tea
  11. Hi there. Hopefully I can be of some help, as I have been in NZ for just over 3 years. I left the UK with significant debt having been unable to pay it back due to loss of job after an accident at work. This was unsecured debt, but debt nevertheless. I will deal with unsecured debt first. As regards a UK bank, credit card company or a debt collection agency actually taking action against you in NZ, it is virtually impossible for them. To do so, they must have already obtained a CCJ against you in the UK. If they have not, then you can forget any legal action. As regards chasing you, then they will by letter, threaten you with all sorts of things, none of which they can do for the aforementioned reason. What you do need to do, is update every creditor that you are in NZ and give them your PO Box number as an address. Don't admit any debt if you ring them to let them know. I would also notify a change of address using the tear off slip on the back of the credit card bill. Do whatever you can to ensure that ALL correspondence reaches you here. Don't bother telling DCA's as they get all info from the main creditor. As soon as the DCA finds out where you are it will get passed to another bottom feeding DCA. Some people have failed to tell creditors where they are, and the creditor applies for a CCJ using the address that have on record. You then have to jump through hoops to get the CCJ set aside, as this is the step they need to legally chase you in NZ. Some will ignore your address change anyway and try and slip a CCJ in illegally. I had a major credit card do this 18 months after I had let them know where I was. The first I knew was that the Royal Mail re-directed the summons to my NZ PO Box. I rang the CC company and pointed out that they had in effect lied to the Court (very naughty) in order to obtain the CCJ, at which point they immediately withdrew it! Any debt may be sold to an NZ agency, packaged up so as to appear to the NZ company as collectable. Theoretically, they could chase you for it, but as the debt originated in the UK, it can only ever be enforced in the UK. Therefore, all you need to worry about is legal enforcement, which as I said, they can't do. Your house mortgage is a secured debt, and the mortgage company took a risk when they leant you the money that you had the ability to pay it back, and that the value of it covered the loan. Clearly from what you have said, neither has proved correct and you are now in negative equity and are behind on the mortgage. I would say here that attack is the best form of defence, and that you immediately put this property on the market in the UK. By doing this, then you will show the lender that you are serious about sorting it out and they may get off your back a bit. Doing it this way, you may get a better price for it than if it was repossessed, and thus the shortfall will be smaller. The main issue you have, is that a lender can actually bankrupt you in the UK for a period of three years since the date you left. If the debt is significant, then the likelihood of them trying this is greater. Bankruptcy in the UK takes account of all your wordLy assets and would include a property you have bought, or a car etc in NZ. If this is not an issue for you, and you are simply in a rental in NZ on a low income, then you could hand the keys back and walk away. They will chase you for it, but if you have no assets then the worst that can happen is that they will make you bankrupt in the UK which won't have much bearing in NZ if you are not a home owner. If you have nothing and can offer nothing, then that will be that and eventually you would be discharged. Ideally, you will have been in NZ for three years by the time it comes to this, and then they are really stuffed hence the delaying tactic with selling the house. For a smaller amount of deficit, then the cost of doing it outweighs any gain for them, and they are unlikely to try it on. Once three years have ticked by they can't do it anyway. I know it might seem a massive problem , and I would imagine that there are some sleepless nights in your household, but take it from me, you really don't have to worry too much about it. If it's any consolation, my debts were 40k GBP and I tried and tried to pay it back, but none of the creditors were any help. My experience is that even big companies resort to illegal threats of action they can't take, and the mismanagement of loan paperwork is breathtaking. They rely on threats to intimidate people, and in a lot of cases this works with the 'won't pay' as opposed to the 'can't pay' which is why they do it. Try the lender out by threatening to hand the keys back, and tell them you are in NZ. This will give you an idea as to what they would do. I would hazard a guess that they will tell you a right load of old bull in an effort to get you to not hand the keys back, as this leaves them with a problem house. To get rid of it they would have legal fees, estate agent fees etc etc, and with little hope of getting it back from you. I would imagine it would be a last resort for them anyway. Try and sell it until they are forced into action and repossess it, delay everything and hold out until the three years are up. A previous post says that it is not possible for a UK creditor to initiate Bankruptcy proceedings against you as you are not in the UK. I am reliably informed that they can serve a Statutory Demand on you, even in NZ, which is the start of Bankruptcy proceedings without the need for a CCJ first. The 3 year bit is the crucial part. Outside of that, you are home and dry. As this is conflicting advice, I would possibly get proper legal advice before you take the plunge! As regards your secured loan on the house, I am assuming this was taken out after the mortgage? The mortgage company will have first charge over the house, so if it sells for more than you owe them, I think it would clear the mortgage first with any surplus going to the secured creditor, who of course by then will have no security. Not sure if they can take any other action other than bankruptcy as discussed above. 3 tea
  12. Hi, if it's any help, I have 'been there and done that', so hopefully can give some reasonable advice. It is very important that the creditor understands and records the fact that you are in New Zealand. They may tell you that they will only accept a UK address, but this is simply to make their job easier and increase the chance of getting a CCJ against you. Start with the actual company you owe the money to, and send them a letter, recorded, registered whatever you wish and tell them where you are. I would go to the nearest Post Shop in NZ and pay for a PO Box for 12 months. Give them this address and do not take no for an answer. Make sure they make a note of it. If you have any old credit card bills with the change of address form on the back, find as many as you can, fill them in with your new address in NZ and post them one periodically. Ignore any debt collection agency letters, as you will find once the creditor has your correct address in NZ, it filters down the food chain and the DCA will drop it like the proverbial hot potato once they know where you are. They are completely toothless anyway as you are no longer in the UK, so unless you fancy a bit of DCA baiting (which I particularly enjoy myself) don't bother with them. Do not under any circumstances reply to phone calls, letters or discuss the debt on the phone with them. You indicate that you are happy to speak to Egg. Why??!! Tell them where you are, and leave it at that....seriously. Every time you discuss the debt in any form, they will record it, and the statute clock starts again. I too had problems with creditors ringing, writing and turning up at my parents address. Doing the above took a week or two to filter through, but three years later, I have had no bother and my parents have had none either. In my view this is very easy to resolve, and all it takes is a bit of nerve and all will be good in the end. Best of luck, 3tea
  13. Geoff, I echo the advice about giving them the PO box now. Don't worry about it, and to be honest forget giving them an email address as well. They won't use it, and will continue to send you a deluge of letters regardless. Just keep it simple, make sure they know where you are, and leave it at that. The golden rule, is to ignore anything sent to you. File it and keep it by all means, but every time you contact them, you restart the statute of limitations clock as well. They will threaten all sorts, I even had one stating that even though I was in NZ then I came under the laws of NZ and could be taken to court. Completely illegal to threaten legal action that you can't take. One refused to take a PO Box address stating 'You can't live in a PO Box, so we can't take it' My reply 'Well you can put letters in one, and that is all I need you to do, so that is all you are getting' Quick word with management later....'We will take it on this occasion' These are the type of bottom feeders you are dealing with, and you need to fight fire with fire. This used to worry me, but I can tell you it does not any more. the only thing that bothered me was my parents getting phone call after phone call, and the odd visit. Follow the advice you have been given and all will be well, and I speak from experience i can tell you!! Best of luck, 3tea
  14. Geoff, You have done exactly what I did three years ago, credit cards etc etc registered at my parents address. This next bit sounds a bit blunt, but give your parents a break and do the following as soon as you can. It is the only way to get them to stop hassling your parents. Right then, firstly congratulations at your escape from the UK and secondly..... 1. Get yourself a NZ PO Box ASAP. 2. Ring up every debtor using Skpe to cut down the cost and give them this PO Box address. you can ignore Debt Collection agencies as they get all of their info from the creditor anyway, but I duplicated everything to them anyway to be sure. If you let the original creditor know where you are, it will filter down the chain until in lands in the gutter which funnily enough is where the debt collectors seem to reside.... Some will refuse to accept it as they know they are stuffed with an overseas address, but give it them anyway. Don't back down. 3. Back it up with a recorded delivery letter. I wrote all mine out, posted them in one envelope to my Dad, who posted them for me and then sent the receipts back to me in NZ so I had proof of delivery. 4. If you still have credit card statements, look on the back and some have a space to notify a new address. If so, fill that in as well and send it back to them. 5. If you still have access to your accounts online, change your address on there too. 6. Sit back and relax. You will get a mountain of threats in your PO Box. 7. Don't worry about them, have a laugh at the funny ones that say 'this letter is valid even if not read by you' but whatever you do NEVER RESPOND. 8. Send your parents a pre-written statement containing your new address and the fact that you now reside in NZ. This is so they can read it out down the phone, or show it to a debt collector through the door once it has been slammed of course!! This approach has worked for me, as contact with my parents stopped within a couple of weeks. The creditor can't even apply for a summons against you as your address is not in England or Wales. Can't apply or obtain a CCJ means no legal enforcement in NZ whatsoever. There is a possibility that your debt could eventually be sold to debt collection agencies in NZ, who could chase you for it, but can't legally do anything. Given the current climate, no one in their right mind wants toxic debt from the UK regardless of how cheap, so even this is unlikely. They ask, you say no, end of story. I have been here for three years, and the last contact I had from anyone was 18 months ago. If I can be of any further help, please feel free to PM me.
  15. Loving France.....what kind of MBNA card do you have? MBNA bought out loads of credit cards from various banks who wanted to wash their hands of the business. Mine was with the Abbey, and MBNA bought that in 2006 or 2007. The card continued to have the Abbey logo, but was administered by MBNA. Unfortunately, they forgot to ask for the paperwork from Abbey. My request for a copy of my agreement (from 1997) was similarly ignored, until almost a year later they conceded they could not produce it. I had a letter from them stating that as they did not have the agreement, they would not be taking enforcement action, but I must keep paying them!! Of course I have continued to pay them...............
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