I actually spoke to my bank today and they told me that getting money back when using Visa Debit is extremely difficult and is unlikely to work (unless it's a fraud). If I had used Visa Credit card then it would have been much easier. So lesson for the next time.SCC sounds appealing actually - I may try it. Problem with the Ombudsman (as you stated) is that it will take at least 3 months according to their rules so a very lengthy process indeed!

Also, the problem with this route is that I will potentially be liable for their legal costs if the court rules in their favour (I maybe wrong here but it sounds logical) plus whatever I will need to pay to the court. However, if I do it through the Ombudsman I will not have to pay anything at all. So perhaps it makes sense to do this first through the Ombudsman and then going to SCC if unsuccessful?

Would you recommend suing them rather than trying to get the money back via the Property Ombudsman?

I seriously doubt it will work - on what grounds am I supposed to get this money back from my bank? The bank will just tell me that I gave my consent for the the transaction with my pin number. Also, who would pay in this case? £500 has already been wired to the agent's bank account - my bank can't get £200 from the agent's bank, can it? I also think that in my case my bank won't know if I did or didn't go ahead with the tenancy and therefore would be really uneasy about any chargeback

Yes, does this change anything?

This wasn't a security deposit for the property but a holding deposit to take it off the market. This is a standard practice I believe so I am fine with them keeping £300. But in my case they simply overcharged me (I was on my lunch break so was in a hurry and didn't read the receipt properly) so I am trying to return the overpaid £200. The agency is TheCityrooms.com

Just the Holding Deposit Receipt that stated some Terms and Conditions regarding the holding deposit and the breakdown of what I paid (£500) and what I would need to pay on my first day (ie deposit, first month rent, etc).

By debit card - I have a receipt as well

Hi, I was going to rent a room through an agency and paid a Holding Deposit of £500.00 to secure it. However, my circumstances changed and I am no longer able to move into this room. Although I realise that this Holding Deposit is non-refundable I believe that I was misled by the lady who was dealing with me and had to pay £500.00 instead of required £300.00; this is a sentence from my Holding Deposit Receipt: “Now that you saw and chose the property, the next step is sign a holding deposit receipt and leave £300.00 as prove of your interest”. The receipt also states that this is a non-refundable deposit that will not be refunded if I don’t take up the tenancy. Unfortunately I didn’t see this and paid £500.00 as requested by her. I saw the agency today but they told me that they will not refund me anything. They said that it was £500 instead of £300 because there was just a week left before I was due to start my tenancy. This is not mentioned anywhere on the receipt though. They also said that basically it doesn't matter what the Receipt says as long as I was fine to pay what was requested it is all non-refundable. Do you think I should be able to get £200.00 back as I was only supposed to be charged £300.00 initially? I am considering making a complaint to The Property Ombudsman. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Tony

As far as I know prosecution for an allegation of fare evasion are always heard in a criminal Court by Magistrates. So it's very unlikely to be a Civil matter. Would you suggest I contact the court and ask why the conviction doesn't come up? I guess I still need to tick the box "convictions and fines" if asked.

SKJP, How do I find out if it was an absolute discharge? I wan't present at the hearing but I did plead guilty at the first opportunity and also sent a remorse letter to the court. I received "Notice of the fine and collection order" following the hearings in which it read the following: Offences and Impositions: "1 / Attempt to travel on railway without paying fare" And then it goes on and specifies the fine amount. Would the letter say that I have an absolute discharge? If it's not the case, it is really strange that my disclosure certificate not reflect the conviction.

It was dealt in Magistrates court so I am pretty sure it should be a criminal matter.

Old-CodJa, I get the point and I think it is fair. Just to confirm - is Tfl prosecution always a criminal matter and result in a criminal record booked if taken to Court or it could also be a civil case?

Hi, I was taken to court and prosecuted by Tfl for using someone else's Freedom pass last October. As far as I understood from this forum and other sources this is a recordable offence and results in a criminal record. However, I have just received my Basic Disclosure Certificate form Disclosure Scotland and it is clean with no record on it! My question is, should I still tick the box "Convictions" on any pre-employment screening forms? I definitely don't need Enhanced disclosure because I don't work with vulnerable people or children so in my case I will only get checked with Basic or Standard Disclosure. My understanding is that the difference between those two is that the Basic one lists all unspent convictions whereas the Standard one lists both spent and unspent. So it looks like (unless spent already) I just don't have this conviction. So the conclusion is that since it didn't come up on the Basic disclosure I don't need to disclose it? Any input would be highly appreciated!

Then it all comes down to the type of jobs I am applying to. I definitely don't need Enhanced disclosure because I don't work with vulnerable people or children. So in my case I will only get checked with Basic or Standard Disclosure. Now, my understanding is that the difference between those two is that the Basic one lists all unspent convictions whereas the Standard one lists both spent and unspent. So by definition (unless spent already) I don't have this conviction. I am really confused here - why do I need to disclose something that is not coming up on the type of CRB needed for my level of required disclosure?

Old-CodJA, I only received "Notice of the fine and collection order" following the hearings in which it said the following: Offences and Impositions: "1 / Attempt to travel on railway without paying fare" And then it goes on and specifies the fine amount. Does it actually mean that I have a conviction and a criminal record? If it so, why does my disclosure certificate not reflect so?

SPRO, I don't want to create an impression that I am trying to break the rules and avoid declaring my circumstances. I just don't want to declare something I may not have. So my question is really - whether or not it may be the case that despite being taken to Court I don't have criminal record. Or why it may be the case that despite being convicted my CRB has returned clean.

BazzaS, I think technically I am not lying as it looks like I just don't have a conviction at all. I am not a specialist but I may have been conditionally discharged by the Court because of pleading guilty at the first opportunity and also some other mitigating factors which I included in the letter to the court (I wasn't present at the actual hearing).

Hi, I was prosecuted by Tfl for using someone else's Freedom pass last October. As far as I understood from this forum and other sources this is a recordable offence and results in a criminal record. However, I have just received my Basic Disclosure Certificate form Disclosure Scotland and it is clean with no record on it! Do you think it is a mistake and I should check somewhere else? Also, should I now tick box "Convictions" on any employment forms or not? I think I was prosecuted under "S. 5 (3) (a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 as amended by Section 84 (2) of the Transport Act 1962 and Section 18 of the British Railways Act 1970" Any input would be highly appreciated.

No, I don't have to go to court and it's called "Plea of Guilty in Absence". It says so in the letter that I received from the court. Interestingly it mentions that the court may decide not to accept my plea:?:Not quite sure what is thepoint of that but I think this is not likely as the matter is very straightforward. So it's my decision whether or not to attend the hearings - the question is if there is any point in doing so and if it can somehow soften the outcome. I have read here on the forum that it is possible to speak to the prosecutorbefore the hearings to try and settle out of court at the last minute but in my case it's unlikely to happen given the misuse of Freedom pass, rather than simple avoidance of the fare.

So what's my ideal course of action - plead guilty and then wait to hear from the court? Do I need to turn up for the hearing or it doesn't make any difference whatsoever? I heard that it's possible to ask the prosecutor that they charge me with a caution or ask the magistrate to impose an absolute discharge (which is not a criminal conviction). Have you heard anything about it?

As suggested by Old-CodJA I sent an apologetic letter to TFL prosecution office and enclosed £300 cheque. They sent it back to me straightaway replying that I need to wait for the decision. Yesterday I received courtsummons to appear before the Magistrates in late November. Do you think it isstill worth trying to send Tfl another letter offering to settle out of court?I guess if they rejected it once they are determined to prosecute me, what doyou think? Also, is there any way I can escape criminal record in this caseif I am taken to the court?

I am also a foreign citizen and I genuinely didn't know that it is taken soseriously here in the UK. Do you think it's worth adding this detail in the letter toLU? If so, would I need to add a photocopy of my passport (and maybe a studentcard)? I am just not sure how much detail and paper they will be prepared to read and review

I have written a letter (based on Old-CodJA’s example) that I intend to send to the prosecution office tomorrow. Could you please have a quick look and see if it's good enough. I am not sure how much detail I need to put into it but I hope that this will be enough. I am especially not sure about the underlined sentence so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Dear , Thank you for your letter with Reference ……. I wish to offer an unreserved apology for my stupidity in attempting to save money by using my girlfriend's concessionary pass. I wish to stress that this was an irrational and uncharacteristic reaction to being under financial pressure at the time and the responsibility for this is entirely mine. I fully understand that I have broken the rules and am truly remorseful. It would be unfair for this to reflect on my girlfriend, or her father in any way as I made the decision to take the card and to use it in an effort to save money. I had to travel to ….. station for an interview lunch time that day but unfortunately had forgotten my wallet with my Oyster card at work the day before. I live within walking distance of my work so I didn’t realise that I didn’t have my wallet with all my cash, credit cards and Oyster card until I had to leave my place. I was in a hurry so and decided to take my girlfriend’s travel card as I didn’t have another option. Later that day I travelled to …. university (where I am currently studying part-time and which is based near ….. Station) and since I still had my girlfriend’s card I stupidly decided to use it again. I have never been in trouble for anything of this nature before and I am very worried that prosecution would have a detrimental and disproportionate effect on my future career as a result of this first offence. I am asking you to allow me to protect my good name by accepting full payment of the unpaid fares and all of TfL reasonably incurred costs in dealing with my misdemeanour so far in order to settle this matter without court action. I cannot convey how apologetic I am and I hope that you will take into consideration my previous good character and the harmful effect that the court appearance could have on my future career prospects. I have enclosed a cheque for £300 to cover the costs and the payment of the evaded fare. This is the maximum that I can pay and I truly hope this will be enough. As you can see from my Oyster card report I regularly use it and I can assure you that I shall never again travel without a valid ticket for which I have paid. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely,

Hi Old-CodJA, Thanks very much for your suggested letter! Do you think it would still be a good idea to enclose a cheque for around £200-£300 with the letter? I guess it just makes it slightly faster and easier for LU to accept it although I understand that this is not what their main concern would be in this case