Just another update - I'm in mediation with Southern Pacific's legal team trying to thrash out a settlement at present. Let's hope it works or the Court Bundle & Court Hearing Fees will be sent first thing Monday morning!!! Wish me luck! Phil

Just to update you all, I've been given a court date of 30th September to hear my claim, but with a note that we should be encouraged to try to settle the claim without the need to go to court..... Lo & behold, the solicitors representing Southern Pacific Securities (Ascenden, Capstone etc.) have been in touch by email this morning to try and resolve the case without the need to go to court!!!!! Here we go......

This is my 'Particulars of Claim' that I am about to send in. Sabre has mentioned that I need to claim via post, but am not sure I need to as the main points and 'points of law' to my claim are here. Any other comments or suggestions would be useful? "We have had mortgage account no.xxxxxxxxxx with the defendant since xxxxxx. We are claiming £xxxxxxx taken by the defendant in the way of unlawful charges since xxxxxxx. The defendants charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are therefore deemed invalid under the Unfair(Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. We have repeatedly asked the defendant to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. This claim is being made under s.32(1)© Limitations Act 1980."

I'm in the process of claiming back charges from Ascenden. I've started my claim via Moneyclaim Online, but yet to submit it. When you say the FoS always side with them, how many people do you know have tried to reclaim the excessive charges? Or have they just put a complaint in through the FoS? In my opinion, and through the little experience I have, I believe the only way to get back at them is to reclaim the charges back by following the due process as discussed on these forums and ultimately through the court system. As with bank & credit card charges, I can't see how any court in the land can see them as anything other than unfair & unjust. I have been through some hard times with Ascenden, now its my time to get them charges back. Complaints will just get filed and archived so I don't see the point. Will keep you informed as to how I get on. All the best.

Can anyone post me a link to a template to enable me to complete my 'Particulars of Claim' for reclaiming excessive mortgage charges/penalties? Thanks. Phil

Just found what I wanted. If the charges/penalties have been added to the principle amount borrowed, then Section 20 covers you. If they have been kept separate, then your claim comes under Section 32. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?52020 Am gonna keep reading......

Mortgage charges or secured loans are dealt with under a section of the Act on their own, though, (section 20) without using the 'mistake in law' (section 32), aren't they? Gutted I've gotta do PoC by post though, and didn't know that they would be much different to that of bank current accounts which is where I got the above from Back to the drawing board I suppose.

Hello, I've just realised that my claim isn't being made under s.32 of the Limitation Act, as that is used where there is a 'mistake in law'. Can anyone point me in the direction of the section of the Limitation Act which deals with the recovery of money secured by a mortgage? I have pinpointed it to be s.20(1)(a)?? Can someone confirm this? Thanks. Phil

Updated Particulars of Claim: "We have had mortgage account no.xxxxxxxxxx with the defendant since xxxxxx. We are claiming £xxxxxxx taken by the defendant in the way of unlawful charges since xxxxxxx. The defendants charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are therefore deemed invalid under the Unfair(Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. We have repeatedly asked the defendant to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. This claim is being made under s.32(1)© Limitations Act 1980."

Thanks, SabreSheep. I'm constantly reading through different threads, and as I said before, I have previous experience of successfully reclaiming bank charges from Abbey National a number of years ago. I was using this previous experience to help me complete the PoC for this new claim, but was unsure if there were any legal differences between the different sorts of charges being reclaimed. As far as I can see it, the points of law being used in any reclaiming process seems to be the same whether its bank charges, credit card charges or mortgage charges. The only point of law I'm unsure of is the Limitation Act 1980, and how it is applied to our claims. As some of my charges are from 2005, I really want to make sure I fully understand it? Please see my new PoC below. Again, all comments much appreciated. I'm hoping to get this claim off within the next couple of hours, so be quick! Cheers Phil PS There is only so much space on the claim form on Moneyclaim Online!

Thanks for your help, Citizen. This is what I have put together so far, and it fits within the parameters given on the claim form: "We have had mortgage account no.xxxxxxxxxx with the defendant since xxxxxx. We are claiming £xxxx taken by the defendant in the way of unlawful charges since xxxxxx. The defendants charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair(Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. We have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. Limitations Act for mortgages is 12 years." Comments, suggestions and opinions are very welcome???? Cheers, Phil

Hello Everyone, So its been a while, we wanted to start our claim against Ascenden for unlawful charges before now, but we've not had the opportunity to do so till now. After repeated failings to resolve our issues, we are now ready to issue a claim and I've started proceedings with 'Moneyclaim Online'. Just a quick question though, can anyone direct me to a suitable template to complete the 'Particulars of Claim'? I've successfully claimed bank charges back before, and have produced one at present, but as these are mortgage charges, I'd like to know if there are any differences to apply to this claim? Thanks in advance! Phil

Hello Everyone Can anyone point me in the right direction for a link to a template for a 'letter before action'? Cheers Phil

Hello Tomo The address above is good. I sent my SAR there and got my info in under a month. All the best. Phil

Hello Mark You'll be able to re-claim any charge or 'fee' that they've put onto your account as a 'penalty', ie late payment fees, arrears management fees, missed direct debit fees etc. Send them a Subject Access Request letter. This gives them 40 days to reply. Don't forget to sign your letter and enclose the £10 cheque or postal order for the fee. Once you receive all the info on your account, its down to you to cipher through it and decide what you are able to claim for. If you are unsure, list the descriptions of the charges you are unsure about on here and we'll try and help you decide. Its important that once you decide to go for it, you stick with your claim and stick rigidly to the timetable that it encounters. As always, you'll get plenty of support on here, so if ever in doubt, just ask. All the best. Phil

Thanks Ims, You've been a great help. I've amended my letter and gonna get it off to the same address I sent my SAR too. All the best. Phil

Hello Ims I'm sorry if I've sent you pm's that go against forum rules. I am very suspicious of some of the charcters that read these forums (ie. Financial Institutions!) and don't wish to give them a chance to prepare anything against me. I want to hold my cards as close to my chest as possible!!!!! The letter I've posted above is what I've put together. Your opinions are very welcome. One last thing, do I need to send them a 'prelim' letter (14 days) then a 'letter before action' (another 14 days) then go to court as per bank charges claims? Thanks, again. Phil

Request for Repayment of Charges We are writing to you to request the refundof £****.**of charges which you have levied against us in respect ofour account, plus statutory interest at 8% of £****.**, an amount thatwe would be expected to receive under normal circumstances by a county court orthe Financial Ombudsman. A total of £****.** These charges have been levied against us unlawfully because they are excessiveand therefore unfair. We are sure that you are aware of the recent decisions by the FinancialServices Authority in Deutschebank and also in Redstone. The Financial ServicesAuthority made it very clear that charges should reflect the actual cost ofdealing with difficulties on a mortgage/loan account. It is very clear that yourcharges are calculated to produce a high margin of profit for you. Furthermore your charges are unfair and therefore unlawful under the UnfairTerms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. Although a test case in 2009 decidedthat overdraft charges for personal bank accounts could not be assessed forfairness, this decision from the Supreme Court was limited to charges whichform part of the core revenue of the banks. Your charges are not part of yourcore revenue. They are incidental to your main business and therefore they fallto be assessed for fairness. Thismeans that they must be proportionate and that they must truly reflect youradministrative costs. We are prepared to sue you in the County Court if you will not refund us forthe full amount. If you are prepared to act quickly and to refund us our money without anytrouble, then we will be prepared to accept the return of our money as detailedabove, with statutory interest added at 8%. Please note that we are not prepared to wait for your normal eight week delay.This is an industry time period which has been agreed with the FSA. We don'tthink that we would be prepared to accept your violations of FSA rules on onehand while you then attempt to rely on some FSA guideline on the other. If we do not hear from you within 14 days of this letter then we will beginproceedings in the County Court and without any further notice. Yours faithfully

Yeh, with Statutory 8% which I'm happy with. I'll pm you my letter now. See what you think. Any observations or additional comments are much appreciated. Thanks for your help, Ims. Phil

Thanks Ims21 I wish all financial institutions would just be transparent about the way they charge people. I know it is never going to happen as they are still making lots & lots of profit from them!!!! I feel like going after them for every charge the have ever made on my account, and letting them justify their excessive charges & costs in a court of law. Its unlaw & unjust - end of! Thats the grey area as I want to know where every penny has gone for each charge! Am getting my letter ready and list of charges ready for sending first thing Monday morning. Gonna think about it tomorrow and amend my letter to request them to justify them all. Anyway, onwards & upwards. Good Luck to you all!!!! Phil

I decided that I was going to pursue SPML as they were the ones that I took the loan out with. The address above is a point of contact they gave me some years ago with a statement, so hence why I used it. Never the less, they received it and got all my information that was requested in my SAR back to me in under a month! The correspondence I have received from them has been headed from 'Ascenden', though. I make you right Joy, as long as you get what you have requested and in full, then who cares! All the best, Phil

Thanks, Dx & Freaky I've copied one of the spreadsheets from the library and filled it in. Am I right to add interest at this stage when I'm just asking for a refund of the charges? Also, I thought you could only claim interest once it goes to court? That is what happened and how things were when I re-claimed some bank charges a few years ago........ Thanks again for your help. Phil

Hello Everyone I'm in the process of getting back all unlawful charges put on my loan account with SPML. Received all the info on my account after submitting an SAR, now going to ask for a refund. Can someone please tell me if I need to send them a copy of the list of the charges that I intend to reclaim with the template letter 'Request for Repayment of Charges'? Cheers Phil

Hello All Sounds like we're all at the same stage of proceedings, but unfortunately I still have an outstanding loan agreement with them but with no arrears now. Sent my SAR off on March 23rd and got all the info back a couple of days ago, 17th April. Will be subscribing to your thread and maybe we can help each other along. Will be starting a thread of my own up too, but good luck. The address I used was: SouthernPacific Personal Loans Ltd, St JohnsPlace, EastonStreet, HighWycombe, Buckinghamshire, HP11 1NL Phil

Hi kgrant, Good luck and keep your post updated. I'm just about to pursue mis-sold PPI from SPML or Ascenden and just sent off my SAR. It will be good to see how you get on and how quickly they co-operate. Regards, Phil