I have this morning found the following report on the internet:- 09 October 2009 A court decision could affect credit card claims. Claims management companies (CMCs) promising customers that they can wipe out credit card debts have suffered a potentially significant legal setback. The Commercial Court ruled against Phillip McGuffick, who had launched legal proceedings against RBS on the basis that a credit agreement he had made with the bank was unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act. Mr Justice Flaux decided that debtors involved in legal proceedings of this nature are nevertheless still liable for monies owed to creditors, meaning that banks can continue reporting customers to credit reference agencies for missing repayments. Mr McGuffick's solicitors had argued that, as their client was disputing his credit agreement in the courts, such actions could not be taken by RBS. Lenders, including credit card providers, are facing high numbers of legal claims of this kind. This is due to the fact that many CMCs have run adverts suggesting that legal loopholes in the Act could be used to wipe out an individual's debts. Law firm Eversheds welcomed the court's decision, which it said would provide extra clarity in the law. "This judgment will be invaluable to all lenders who are currently dealing with challenges to the enforceability of credit agreements," a statement from the firm added. In August, the Ministry of Justice said that it had cancelled 100 CMCs for breaking rules of conduct for the sector, including making unrealistic claims in promotional material. The worrying thing is,that Eversheds solicitors are representing Nationwide & that they also gave me the document Phillip McGuffick V The Royal Bank Of Scotland at my summary judgement hearing,saying that this is the case that they would be refering to/relying upon in regards to my case with them. Any advice?

Thanks for that,most helpfull.Appreciated .

Hi citizen B, the date of the formal demand from nationwides solicitor was May 2009,this was stating that my agreement with Nationwide is now terminated. But this isn't what their refering to in the print out,the print out is for a default notice sent out supposedly in November 2008 (there using the print out as evidence that one was issued).I never recieved it & they can't provide it (told the judge that they don't keep this type of paperwork).Though i did recieve one in Jan 2009,but not in the correct format (however they haven't mentioned this one,so i'm not going to.). Therefore,without a default notice theres not much they can do.Also,i'm under the impression that a default notice can only be issued if i have missed 3 full payments??,but i made partial payments fdor these 3 missed payments,,,so a default notice shouldn't have been issued?? As for not keeping the default notice themselves (being unable to supply it) this also goes against The companies act 1985,(sec 221 & 222(5)(b) a public compay is required to maintain records for a period of six years.

Hi all,sorry i haven't got back sooner,been busy on a course all week & waiting for my brother to install my new pc. Anyway,the hearing on Monday lasted 1hour 50 mins rather than the 40 mins originally allocated.I never got awarded summary judgement & the case is now going to small claims on 7th Dec (booked for 3 hours).The Judge has given me 4 weeks to ammend my defence,though she didn't seem very clued up on the consumer credit act.Every point i made (3 agreements,no terms & conditions attached to agreement,no default notice,non compliance of cpr request etc) seemed to go over her head. So now i need to look at every single document,the way it's laid out,see if it complies with cca 1974,what was served,what wasn't etc.Note down everything & basically on 7th Dec get it into their thick heads that they can't over rule what is set out in stone in cca 1974. One part of Monday i didn't understand was,Nationwide asked the Judge about their costs,the Judge said she would not pass the costs to me as she could see that i had made an offer (& made payments) of £18.55 per month month to Nationwide,they rejected this offer as they wanted £25.00 per month.Her actual words where that Nationwide had backed me into a corner & that if they had been prepared to help me in the first place i would not of asked for my agreement & it would not have gone to court. Can these costs be added at a later stage? The reason i didn't get summary Judgement was,that the Judge said that Nationwide had complied with everything in the agreement they sent me: apr rate,signed by myself,date etc.(though no terms & conditions where recieved by myself until 22nd Oct 2009,4 days before the hearing.I have since read that all documents which are relied on must be sent 7 days before any hearing). I also know that Nationwide cannot provide the original agreement,or the default notice at all.Yet i have read that:-according to sections 221 &222 of the companies act 1985,a public company is required to maintain records for a period of 6 years.(section 222(5)(b). Does anyone know anything about this? I am now going to wriet to Nationwide,referring to my request for documents in cpr 34.(to which i only recieved the agreement,no default,no T&C,no statements,no cancellation documents),giving them 7 days in which to forward the said documents (section 78(1) cca 1974,duty to give information to the debtor under running account credit agreement. Then i'll see what happens. I'd be most gratefull of any advice/help/referance to... etc anyone could give me at this stage,& as soon as i have my defence together will post it on here for feed back. Thanks all.

Today recieved yet another cca,thats 3 in total,,,Looking forward to Monday,**** or bust!!

Wouldn't of thought that would be right.It would be a green light for copy & paste!!

I today recieved a letter on behalf of nationwide,basically it says that they have now asigned a new solicitor,& they also ask for the court date to be put on hold for 2 months,,,mainly so they can see what happens with the outcome of the Manchester test cases. I would be obliged if someone could advise or comment,thanks....why are Nationwide, changing solicitors at this stage....why is the outcome, of the Manchester test trials, so important to them, that they want the trial delayed for 2 months? I have phoned the courts, and they have told me, the hearing will go ahead, on the original date, due to me applying for summary judgement, unless, I want it changed. This was the letter i recieved:- Dear Sir We are now instructed to act for Nationwide Building Society in the above matter and enclose, by way of service, a copy of the Notice of Change of Solicitor which we have sent to the Court. We also enclose a copy of our letter of today's date to the Court. As you will see we have proposed, in the interests of justice and both parties in this case (to reduce costs and narrow the issues), that the proceedings in this matter be stayed. The reason for the proposed stay is primarily to await the outcome of various test cases which are currently underway, the outcome of which are direct relevance to your client's claim. We would be grateful if you would confirm whether or not you have any objections to the proposal that the hearing listed for **********2009 be vacated and that the proceedings be stayed for a period of 2 months. We look forward to hearing from you Yours faithfully ************* They also sent this letter to the courts:- Dear Madam We confirm that we now act for the claimant in the above matter. We enclose a Notice of Change of Solicitor which we would be grateful if you would place on the Court file. We note that the Court has given notice of the hearing of the defendant's application to strike out our client's claim, which is listed for *********2009 at **********Unfortunately a copy of the defendant's application does not appear to have been attached to the Court's notice dated ******2009. We respectfully request that the Court forward to us a copy of the missing document. We propose that the hearing listed for ******2009 be vacated and that the claim be stayed for a period of two months (*******2009). We consider that a stay would be prudent in light of the numberous test cases currently progressing in the Mercantile Court in Manchester and which are due to be heard before *******QC on *******2009 The test cases deal with a number of issues relevant to our client's claim, including : 1. Wheather a copy of agreement given under section 78(1) must have the quality of a photocopy or may the copy be a reproduction; 2. Whether a creditors breach of section 78(1) gives rise to an unfair relationship; 3. Whether, if there is a breach of section 78(1), a declaration to that effect is appropriate; 4. Whether the document signed by the debtor contains the prescribed terms if they are on a separate sheet attached to or supplied with the piece of paper signed by the debtor; and 5. Whether a failure to show that there was a document signed by the debtor containing the prescribed terms of itself give rise to an unfair relationship. The outcome of the test cases will be of direct relevance to this matter and we consider it in the interest of justice and the parties in this case (to reduce costs and narrow the hearing of the defendant's application for Applying The Court To strike Out The Claim (see copy attached) will take place at *******on the *******2009 at ******** **********Civil Justice Centre.

Just recieved papers through for court date this morning.26th October,i'll keep you posted.

Thanks Chris,will get these sent off tomorrow morning,should i also send both copies of the so called agreements to the Courts?

THINK I'VE GOT IT NOW,IS THIS OK?,I HAVE ALSO ATTACHED THE N244 FORM THAT I HAVE NOW FILLED IN. IN THE BIRMINGHAM COUNTY COURT CASE No:XXXX BETWEEN : NATIONWIDE , CLAIMANT & Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx , DEFENDANT STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF APPLICATION FOR SUMMARY JUDGEMENT THE DEFENDANT ARGUES THAT THE CLAIMANTS PARTICULARS OF CLAIM IS INSUFFICIENTLY STATED,AS IT DOES NOT REFER TO THE TERMS UNDER WHICH THE CLAIM IS BROUGHT CONSISELY& CAUSES ISSUES FOR THE DEFENDANT IN HE IS UNSURE AS TO WHAT THE CASE TO ANSWER IS- THEREFORE THE DEFENDANT IS UNABLE TO DEFEND THE CLAIM PROPERLY. DESPITE THESE CONCERNS,& THE DEFENDANT HAVING PREVIOUSLY CORRESPONDED UPON WITH THE CLAIMANT & THEIR REPRESENTATIVES,THE CLAIMANT HAS FAILED TO CLARIFY THIS ISSUE & HAS ALSO FAILED TO PROVIDE SUCH INFORMATION UNDER A CPR 31.14 REQUEST FOR MORE INFORMATION FROM THE DEFENDANT DATED 17th JUNE 2009 GIVING 7 DAYS IN WHICH TO COMPLY WITH THAT REQUEST (SEE LETTER A,ATTACHED). THE DEFENDANT ARGUES THAT THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM IS INSUFFICIENTLY STATED UNDER CPR PART 16.2(1)(A) & RESPECTFULLY ASKS THE COURT TO TAKE ACTION UNDER ITS POWERS IN RELATION TO THIS PART TO STRIKE OUT THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM DUE TO FAILURE.THE DEFENDANT RESPECTFULLY APPLIES TO THE COURT TO AWARD SUMMARY JUDGEMENT TO THE DEFENDANT,UNDER CPR 24.2(a)(i),IN THE CURRENT PROCEEDINGS,IN THAT THE CLAIMANT HAS NO REAL PROSPECT OF SUCCEEDING ON THE CLAIM,DUE TO THESE INSUFFICIENTLY STATED PARTICULARS OF CLAIM. FURTHER THE DEFENDANT ALSO ARGUES THAT CPR PART 24.2(b) APPLIES TO THE CURRENT PROCEEDINGS,FOR THE REASONS ALREADY OUTLINED,& THAT THERE IS NO COMPELLING REASON AS TO WHY THE CASE SHOULD BE DISPOSED OF AT TRIAL.THE CLAIMANT IS UNABLE TO SHOW THAT IT CAN SUCCESSFULLY SUCCEED WITH THIS CLAIM ,AS IT HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE PRE – ACTION PROTOCOLS OUTLINED IN s.87/s.88 OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT1974.UNLESS THE CLAIMANT IS ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT A FULLY ENFORCEABLE CREDIT AGREEMENT IS IN EXISTANCE,PERSUANT TO s.60/s.61 & s.65,THE COURT IS UNABLE TO ENFORCE THE AGREEEMENT AGAINST THE DEFENDANT AS OUTLINED IN s.127(1) & s.127(3).FOR ALL THESE REASONS,THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM MUST FAIL,IN EITHER CASE. IN THE ALTERNATIVE,WHERE THIS HONOURABLE COURT DECIDES NOT TO STRIKE OUT THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM,THE DEFENDANT SEEKS AN ORDER FROM THE COURT THAT THE PROCEEDINGS BE GENERALLY STAYED FOR A PERIOD OF 28 DAYS TO ALLOW THE CLAIMANT TO FURTHER PARTICULARISE ITS CLAIM & CLARIFY THE TERMS UNDER WHICH ITS CLAIM AGAINST THE DEFENDANT IN SUCH DETAIL AS REQUIRED BY CPR PART 16,& THAT THE RELEVANT DOCUMENTS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED BY THE DEFENDANT ARE DISCLOSED PRIOR TO THE DEFENDANT BEING EXPECTED TO SUBMIT A DEFENCE & ORDERING THAT THE CLAIM BE STRUCK OUT WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE IF THE CLAIMANT DOES NOT TAKE SUCH ACTION. TAKE NOTICE THAT IF THE RESPONDANT TO THIS APPLICATION FOR SUMMARY JUDGEMENT WISHES TO RELY ON WRITTEN EVIDENCE AT THE HEARING,IT MUST FILE A WITNESS STATEMENT & SERVE COPIES ON THE CLAIMANT AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE THE DATE SET FOR THE SUMMARY JUDGEMENT HEARING. STATEMENT OF TRUTH I believe that the facts stated in this statement are true Signed……………..claimant Dated…………… DRAFT OF ORDER 1.CPR PART 16.2(1)(a) CONTENTS OF THE CLAIM FORM 16.2 (1) THE CLAIM FORM MUST- (a)CONTAIN A CONSISE STATEMENT OF THE NATURE OF THE CLAIM; (b)SPECIFY THE REMEDY WHICH THE CLAIMANT SEEKS; (C )WHERE THE CLAIMANT IS MAKING A CLAIM FOR MONEY,CONTAIN A STATEMENT OF VALUE IN ACCORDANCE WITH RULE 16.3; (d)CONTAIN SUCH OTHER MATTERS AS MAY BE SET OUT IN PRACTICE DIRECTION. (1A)IN CIVIL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THE CROWN,AS DEFINED IN RULE 66.1(2),THE CLAIM FORM MUST ALSO CONTAIN:- (a)THE NAME OF THE GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS & OFFICERS OF THE CROWN CONCERNED;& (b)BRIEF DETAILS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH IT IS ALLEGED THAT THE LIABILITY OF THE CROWN AROSE. (2)IF THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM SPECIFIED IN RULE 16.4 ARE NOT CONTAINED IN,OR ARE NOT SERVED WITH THE CLAIM FORM,THE CLAIMANT MUST STATE ON THE CLAIM FORM THAT THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM WILL FOLLOW. (3)IF THE CLAIMANT IS CLAIMING IN A REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY,THE CLAIM FORM MUST STATE WHAT THE CAPACITY IS. (4)IF THE DEFENDANT IS SUED IN A REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY,THE CLAIM FORM MUST STATE WHAT THE CAPACITY IS. (5)THE COURT MAY GRANT ANY REMEDY TO WHICH THE CLAIMANT IS ENTITLED EVEN IF THAT REMEDY IS NOT SPECIFIED IN THE CLAIM FORM. (part 22 requires a claim form to be verified by a statement of truth) (The costs practice direction sets out the information about a funding arrangement to be provided with the statement of case where the defendant intends to seek to recover an additional liability) (funding arrangement &` additional liability` are defined in rule 43.2) 2.cpr part 16.4(1)(a) CONTENTS OF THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 16.4 (1)PARTICULARS OF CLAIM MUST INCLUDE- (a) A CONCISE STATEMENT OF THE FACTS ON WHICH THE CLAIMANT RELIES; (b)IF THE CLAIMANT IS SEEKING INTEREST,A STATEMENT TO THAT EFFECT & DETAILS SET OUT IN PARAGRAPH (2) (c )IF THE CLAIMANT IS SEEKING AGGRAVATED DAMAGES,OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES,A STATEMENT TO THAT EFFECT & HIS GROUNDS FOR CLAIMING THEM; (d)IF THE CLAIMANT IS SEEKING PROVISIONAL DAMAGES,A STATEMENT TO THAT EFFECT & HIS GROUNDS FOR CLAIMING THEM;& (e)SUCH OTHER MATTERS AS MAY BE SET OUT IN PRACTISE DIRECTION. (2)IF THE CLAIMANT IS SEEKING INTEREST HE MUST- (a)STATE WHETHER HE IS DOING SO – (i)UNDER THE TERMS OF A CONTRACT (ii)UNDER AN ENACTMENT & IF SO WHICH:OR (iii)ON SOME OTHER BASIS & IF SO WHAT THAT BASIS IS;& (b)IF THE CLAIM IS FOR A SPECIFIED AMOUNT OF MONEY,STATE… (i)THE PERCENTAGE RATE AT WHICH INTEREST IS CLAIMED; (ii)THE DATE FOR WHICH IT IS CLAIMED; (iii)THE DATE TO WHICH IT IS CALCULATED,WHICH MUST NOT BE LATER THAN THE DATE ON WHICH THE CLAIM FORM IS ISSSUED; (iv)THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF INTEREST CLAIMED TO THE DATEOF CALCULATION,& (v)THE DAILY RATE AT WHICH INTEREST ACCRUES AFTER THAT DATE. (Part 22 requires particulars of claim to be verified by a statement of truth) 3.CPR PART 24.2(a)(i) 4.CPR PART 24.2(b) GROUNDS FOR SUMMARY JUDGEMENT 24.2 THE COURT MAY GIVE SUMMARY JUDGEMENT AGAINST A CLAIMANT OR DEFENDANT ON THE WHOLE OF A CLAIM OR ON A PARTICULAR ISSSUE IF:- (a)IT CONSIDERS THAT:- (i)THAT THE CLAIMANT HAS NO REAL PROSPECT OF SUCCEEDING ON THE CLAIM OR ISSUE;OR (ii)THAT THE DEFENDANT HAS NO REAL PROSPECT OF SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDING THE CLAIM OR ISSUE,& (b)THERE IS NO OTHER COMPELLING REASON WHY THE CASE OR ISSUE SHOULD BE DISPOSED OF AT TRIAL. (Rule 3,4 makes provision for the courts to strike out a statement of case or part of a statement or case if it appears that it discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending a claim). STATEMENT OF TRUTH I BELIEVE THE FACTS STATED IN THIS STATEMENT ARE TRUE. SIGNED……..CLAIMANT DATED…… N244 PT 1.zip N244 PT 2.zip

thanks,Chris.I'll have yet another read through,seems so many different rules etc...thanks for putting me in the picture,was a little confused.I will get there. I'll post up the forms when i've finnished them later this evening,if you would possibly check them over for me,before i mail them off.

Thanks,i think i'm going to go with evidence as support of my application for summary judgement (as i think i have quite alot of evidence : non compliance of cpr request,2 different agreements,no t & c,no default letter etc),but will also use your letter above ...but will change it to non compliance of cpr request,therefore not being able to enter my full defence (embarressed). Will also send off 3 copies of everything. What do you think?

Have you read the link I provided before? Most of these are answered there; (the ones that aren't, have been answered by the Site Team, on your thread already) Quote: Originally Posted by car2403 Read from this post onwards about Summary Judgment and seeking a strike out - I'll need to reread your thread to know if this applies, but this is the general process; Restons (HFC Bank) V Myself help have now issued a CCC HELP !!!!!! Ok,have had another good read through the link & there where a few things i had overlooked,mainly the draft of the order i am applying for. Thanks,things are now a lot clearer,i have set all of my paperwork out in front of me (sent & received,by order of date),have all forms ready for filling in & shall be spending the rest of the day putting everything together ready for sending on Monday morning. Apart from the N244, cpr request & a copy of the letter in post 63,do i need to send copies of all correspondance letters received & sent between myself,Shoosmiths,Nationwide & KPR to the courts?

Yes thanks,i have read the link a few times now & have found it most helpful in answering a lot of my questions.I shall take another look at it now though just to make sure there is nothing i have missed,before sending off all of my paperwork. Thanks again,& thanks to everyone else who has answered my questions/advised me.Wouldn't have been able to do this on my own,much appreciated.

ok,thank you,will get everything ready & in order to send off tomorrow morning,should i send it to Birmingham or Northampton courts?.I would pressume Birmingham now that the case has been moved to there? Still a liittle unsure as to Q4)have you attached a draft of the order you are applying for? y/n...don't really understand this question at all.

Ok,i have now looked at the N244 form & would appreciate some help with some of the questions,so that i can get it off tomorrow morning along with the AQ form,& also send any other relevant paperwork. The questions on the N244 that i'm a bit stuck with are as follows:- Q3) what order are you asking the court to make & why? Would this just be called summary judgement? Q4) have you attached a draft of the order you are appling for? Y or N Q8) what level of judge does your hearing need? Q10)what information will you be relying on,in support of your application? With this should i explain that i was unable to complete my defence as most of the documentation requested in my CPR letter was not sent to me. Also that they have sent me 2 versions of the so called agreement ...which do not match each other,one in the name of Mrs the other with no date on it,neither had the terms & conditions attached to them or the schedule of repayment or the Apr rate. I was not served a default notice or a pre default notice. That the so called agreements are merely application forms. Should i also send the Courts the letter that i sent to Shoosmiths in post 63?,as i have had no reply to this as of yet. Would it also be a good idea to send the courts a copy of my CPR request,the so called agreements & all other documents that i have received from Shoosmiths/Nationwide? Also i know i have to send a fee with the N244 form,but it dosen't say how much,i'm under the impression it's either £40 or £70,but i am unsure as to which one applies to me. Sorry if some of these questions i have may seem a little stupid,just that i want to get all of this right. One more thing,now that the case has been moved to Birmingham County Court from Northampton,i assume i send all paperwork to Birmingham?,including the AQ form? Thanks all,your help & time is much appreciated.

ok,in that case your in very good hands then.I will keep an eye on your thread & if theres any change to my circumstances that may help you i'll pass it on. All the best.

No haven't heard anything since,still waiting for a reply,sorry i can't be of any further help.If i do get anything from them i'll keep you posted,in the meantime it may be best if you post up your documents on a new thread,i'm sure someone will advise you,or you can always ask advice from one of the site team.

Thanks but i don't think that they did act within the Law,as a repayment plan had already been set up to repay my overdraft with nationwide & it had been & was been adhered to.The money that my brother put into my account,was not part of my repayment plan & was not theres to take...in my opinion this was very sly & underhand,considering i had explained my circumstances & told them why i needed to get home. All it says to me is,we don't care...we want our money & we don't care of the circumstances where going to get it by whatever way or means we can.

ok,thanks all,appreciate your thoughts & views (after all that is why i asked,& i appreciate your honnesty). Think i'll wrap this one up,put it behind me,otherwise i think i'll end up getting very bitter & just dwell on it too much.(probably dosen't help with the other S**t i've got going on with Nationwide,(see other threads). Thank you all again.

Does anyone actually have any opinions on this as to what i should do next?,or should i just put it down to experience,forget about it & just remember what a great bloke my Dad was?

Still heard nothing in relation to the letter that i sent to Shoosmiths (post 63),so i am going to fill in my AQ, stating that i have not received the required documents as requested in the CPR,thus inhibiting my defence.That they have sent me 2 different so called agreements (which are applications) which do not match each other,one is in the name of Mrs instead of Mr,the other has no date on it.I did not receive a default letter,or pre default letter & that no terms & conditions where attached to the so called agreement(s),neither does either of them contain the repayment schedule,limit or Apr rate. I have also been to the courts today to get a N244 form to apply for summary judgement,i will have a good look at this tomorrow (on a course for the next 10 days,trying to fit alot in)...but will probably need some help with it,if someone would be so kind. Also i still haven't had an answer from my previous question:- In the AQ form,What is an experts report?

Hi Chris & thanks for the link,most helpfull...spent the last couple of hours looking through this & making notes,gonna take a better look tomorrow,see if i can answer some of my own questions first,before i start bothering others,think i might understand things a bit more if i research them a bit more.Just seems theres so much to take in (this form that form,this application etc),does it all ease off,go away ...& let me sleep again comfortably eventually?...or am i dreamin,lol

Hi bh 2362, At exactly the same stage as yourself with Nationwide,thanks to Chris for the link...i've made a few notes of a few things i need to do,been reading through this for a good 2 hours now,need to recap on it tomorrow, Hope all goes well & i'll keep an eye on your thread for any progress reports or help. Good luck!

Also now i am unemployed, could someone please advise me as wether it would be a good idea or not to go to Citizens Advice to ask about legal aid,or maybe i don't need it?