The Section 21 notice does not have to be supplied as a prescribed form so there is nothing that could be faked surely? However the section 21 does have to be valid. I presume you are a Landlord Steve and may find this interesting From the Housing Act 2004 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 215 Sanctions for non-compliance (1) If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when— (a) the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or (b) the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit. (2) If section 213(6) is not complied with in relation to a deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as section 213(6)(a) is complied with. (3) If any deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy could not be lawfully required as a result of section 213(7), no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as the property in question is returned to the person by whom it was given as a deposit. (4) In subsection (3) “deposit” has the meaning given by section 213(8. (5) In this section a “section 21 notice” means a notice under section 21(1)(b) or (4)(a) of the Housing Act 1988 (recovery of possession on termination of shorthold tenancy). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ and here are some thoughts off others off another Forum. ' If Tenant leaves when it's unnecessary to leave (unnecessary because Landlord had no right to use s.21 but impliedly represented that such right existed), Tenant has lost-out and can claim against Landlord for whatever extra costs Tenant has suffered due to Landlord's misrepresentations. ' and also 'It might be arguable that the misrepresentation was negligent'

Hi I respect your opinion but are you trying to say that by the tenant not checking the section 21 that was issued then, invalidates the fact that the section 21 was invalid in the first place. I complied with the section 21 notice believing it was valid and dutifully 'vacated' the premises as requested - why should I wait for a court order and go down that route? I was just fulfilling my duties as a tenant. It only came to light when my tenancy ended when I asked for my deposit back and found it was not protected - of course the landlord then sent it off to be protected - like they do.

Yawn !!!

Problem is as I see it - he cannot give me a new section 21 as I have left the property - the deposit was not protected when he served the section 21 and he was not allowed to serve one and he cannot rectify his mistake.

Hi LL serves Section 21 T leaves thinking it was valid T finds out afterwards that deposit was not protected but LL has now protected the deposit - like they do. But this stll means the Section 21 was invalid - yes? I have been informed off another forum that I may have a case for damages for various reasons. My question is on what grounds would I best pursue this? An invalid section 21 served due to TDS non compliance and therefore Misrepresentation? Negligence? Fraud Act 2006 offence? Your thoughts and opinions would be welcome Many thanks HairyB

As I have said before I had it in writing on what I presumed to be a legally binding document - the agreement, and that the deposit would be submitted by the landlord within 14 days also bearing in mind that this was the first time I have rented a property before and was unaware and still am unaware that I had a legal obligation to check that the landlord had done his duty. I did not wait six months for anything - at the end of my tenancy I was informed that the deposit was about to be submitted after I asked for my deposit back.

You really really do not get the point do you? And looking at most of your posts you seem to take a confrontaitonal attitude to anybody seeking advice and also seems to enjoy a good argument - I will not be drawn into one with you - anybody else reading this post will hopefully realise what I am trying to convey. oh by the way look what I have found - do you think this maybe usefull to me or indeed anyone else? especially as according to you they have no chance in bringing a claim against a landlord for TDS non compliance? seeing that you state that they can apply what ammounts to retrospective compliance at anytime ? mmm I wonder who posted these? any Ideas? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TDS Court Claims Wording - Possible Sticky? For Information; Me and and abitofapickle have come up with the following possible wording for TDS non-compliance claims. This is to be used in conjunction with the N208 County Court Claim Form. Maybe this could be used as a sticky in the future? I would add the health warning that we still aren’t 100% sure that the N208 is the correct way to go (the other option being N1). You have been warned!! The applicant makes a claim under the Housing Act 2004 section 214(1)(a) that the deposit of £825 as required in the Assured Shorthold Tenancy for 'the rental address' was not paid in to an appropriate tenancy deposit scheme (in accordance with section 213 (1) of the Housing Act 2004) or the applicant did not received the prescribed information concerning which Tenancy Deposit Scheme was to hold the deposit, within 14 days of the defendants receipt of the deposit (in accordance with section 213 (3) of the Housing Act 2004). 1) The applicant asks that the court makes an order in accordance with the Housing Act 2004 section 214 (3) which states the following; (a) "order the person who appears to the court to be holding the deposit to repay it to the applicant" A total of (Insert £ Original Deposit amount here) And I understand that the Court Must also do the following; 2) The applicant asks that the court makes an order in accordance with the Housing Act 2004. Section 214 (4) which states the following; "The court must also order the landlord to pay to the applicant a sum of money equal to three times the amount of the deposit within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order.” A total of (Insert £ x3 original deposit amount here) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from (Insert Date deposit should have been returned) to (Date you Submit the Application) of (Insert £ worked out using the court interest rate calculation from their website) and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (Insert £ worked out using the court interest rate calculation from their website). I am therefore seeking payment of (Insert £ of original deposit + X3 Deposit), court fee and interest. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/n...ex302_0406.pdf - Link on how to work out interest on original deposit only. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n208_1000.pdf - Link to N208 Claim Form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...n208a_0499.pdf - Link to N208 guidance notes. Love to here your comments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ooo and here's another one ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deposit being held by landlord - was not entered into deposit scheme Your options are go for the deposit back through a regular claim or go for the throat with a x3 + deposit claim. Your LBA and accompanying court form will need to make it crystal clear to the landlord the consequences of ignoring you. The idea is to get a suitable response WITHOUT having to take the matter to the county court. Assuming your going for the TDS non-compliance (which I would do if the situation was reversed); Your Name and Address Phone Numbers Date (Right Jutified) Landlords Name and address (In Bold and Centred) LETTER BEFORE ACTION Dear Mr "Theif" In light of the ongoing issue concerning the return of my £xxxx deposit for xxxx (insert address), it has come to my attention that under Chapter 4 of the Housing Act 2004, my deposit should have been placed in one of the registerd Tennancy Deposit Schemes, with details of the holding scheme forwarded to me within 14 days of you recieveing this deposit. You will be aware that penalties for non-TDS complaince are an absoulte offence for which there is no defence. The penalties of non-compliance are the full return of the deposit without deductions + x3 the depsoit amount, in this case a total of £2746.19. The sum of £2756.19 is now due. If I do not recieve it within 14 days I will submit the attached N1/N208 (delete as appropriate) to the County Court without further notice, at which point you will also become responsible for the court fee and my reasonable costs. I look forward to your prompt response. Yours Sincelry Mr I am going to teach you one hell of a lesson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- and yet another ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Re: Deposit being held by landlord - was not entered into deposit scheme You can definatley 100% claim. This is exactly what TDS is for, to stop Landlords such as this unilaterally witholding tenats deposits. I can see no reason why you shouldnt sue now for non-complaince. You can sue for the deposit return + x3 the deposit a total of £2746.19 + court fee which will do nicely thanlyou. Heres some wording that we came up with previously; TDS Court Claims Wording - Possible Sticky? The two schools of thought are N1 county claim or N208. There are pros and cons with them both, which are all in the thread. I would consider this pretty clear cut and would go for the N208 route. The benifit is that the landlord wont be able to defend such a claim with "this and that was dirty or there was a mark here and a scratch there argument". You first need to do a letter before action (LBA) given the landlord 14 days to cough up or you will take the matter to the county court without further notice. You should print out the N208/N1 (which ever you choose) fill it in as suggested and send it along with the LBA to show your LL you mean business. Get back if you need more assistance. (By the way I have made the assumption that the deposit wasnt paid before 6th April 2007 in order to secure the tenancy starting 5th May - if this is not true tell me!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ooo and yet another ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deposit Protection Query Quote: Originally Posted by bobzac It is written under clause 2d in the Terms and Conditions of the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, seems there is room for the judges discretion. Then its wrong im affraid. The "gosspel" on the matter is the Housing Act 2004. In particular 214 (4); "The court must also order the landlord to pay to the applicant a sum of money equal to three times the amount of the deposit within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order." No ifs and buts im affraid. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oh my god it seems to be you that posted them and there are lots lots more were these posts made when you did not know what you were doing?? And the recent post you are making is because now you do?? I am not going to explain anything to you - you obviously like to play on words and try and twist meanings to suit your sad ends - I do not live on this site having a view on everything under the sun as you seem to do 800 + posts:) If anyone else is reading this I refer you to this thread posted by Mr Pipps who genuinely seems to know what he is talking about regarding the interpretation of the TDS - and before you start and say that is because that is what I wanted to hear - well it's not - as he says' When presented with prescriptive legislation, a Judge will simply take the literal meaning. And there is only one possible meaning that can be taken from these provisions.' check out the entire thread - this is page 3 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/117280-tenancy-deposit-scheme-3.html

Double popst see below

You are somehow missing the point here - I was told that the deposit would be submitted and held by the DPS within 14 days in writing in a legally binding agreement - so why should I check the status? The onus is not on me to make sure the deposit is protected as well you should know. Besides logic I believe any Judge would also have to adhere to the prescribed legislation in this matter for which I see no mention of the tenants responsibilty to make sure the deposit is protected. I believe after reading other posts that a possible reason that a judge may allow retrospective compliance is to give the landlord the benefit of the doubt and a chance to rectify his mistake once it has been brought to his attention - but as you can see in my case the landlord and agent were fully aware of their duties from day one. I also did not say I would not of signed the contract had I known the deposit was not protected what I said was 'I would not of signed if I were told that the deposit may or may not be paid in to a deposit protection scheme or it could be paid in at anytime they wanted including after the letting term was over.' but of course I was not told that, who in their right mind would say such a thing? - but they may as well of done for it now appears to be the literal translation of 'The Landlord shall place the Deposit with the Deposit Protection Scheme within 14 days of the tenancy commencing' Finally are you a landlord by any chance?

Really what???? Ahh silly me I am the one to find out where it is really held am I? When the landlord and agent commit themselves in writing and tell me it will be held by the DPS within 14 days time. So,when I enter into an agreement with terms and conditions and they have not been fullfilled it's tough is it? If retrospective compliance was permitted, there would be no point in having the legislation whatsoever.

Hi My landlord's letting agent or the landlord himself Did not secure my deposit in a TDS during my 6 month tenancy until I asked for my deposit back at the end of the term - the agent said the landlord claims some damage to his property and that they have now sent off our deposit (nearly 2 weeks after we vacated the property?) and The Deposit Protection Scheme will have to deal with the problem?????? I have read a lot of TDS non compliance threads on here and different views and I wish to know if I possibly have a case against the landlord or his agent for TDS non compliance based on or around a possible breach of contract. The reasons are as follows It clearly states in my AST agreement 'The tenant shall pay to the agent,on the signing of this agreement,£xxxxx ( 'the deposit' ) as a Deposit,which shall be held by the 'Deposit Protection Service'The deposit will be protected by The Deposit Protection Service in accordance with the terms and conditions of The Deposit Protection Service and ADR rules' etc Also my AST agreement goes on to say 'The Landlord shall place the Deposit with the Deposit Protection Scheme within 14 days of the tenancy commencing' On this basis I signed the agreement, I would not of signed if I were told that the deposit may or may not be paid in to a deposit protection scheme or it could be paid in at anytime they wanted including after the letting term was over. I am now of the opinion that they had no right to pay 'the deposit' into the scheme outside of the tenancy period (to use as a possible get out of jail free card) for they should not of retained my deposit in the first place if there was no intention to submit it in 14 days of recieving it and I view the monies that they have paid in to be just a sum of equal value to my deposit ie their money and that my deposit should be returned in full and proceed to take them to court for TDS non compliance. Obviously the landlord and his agent were aware of their responsibilites and should have no excuse for non TDS compliance for the Agent drafted the agreement and the landlord signed it. I would welcome any advice on how to proceed or comments on this scenario and sorry folks for babbling on so much Many thanks Hairyb