Nice One Lexis.. VG letter, well laid out and informs them. you know exactly how to handle them, they know from this letter, your not going to be a push over. i will definitly use this letter.. thanks again.

Thanks Lexis for your reply, its good to hear were not alone, after around 6 months they tried to say the account was not in dispute. lol. we have always refused to speak to them on the telephone. they threatened to come to the door on a certain date, i informed them if they came to my door i would call the police, they never turned up. they send these letters from diffrent dca, to try and frighten you, all the dca, are in-house dca, as they are not allowed to sell the debt if the account is in dispute, i informed them this is easily solved,, produce the orginal signed cca, and i will pay the debt, the alledged cca was supposidly signed in 1991. if there is such a document then lets see it, if not then there is no debt. they are threating court action, i doubt they will carry it through as they already know it can not be enforced. im guessing this could go on forever,

Hi all, not sure if this is the correct post, apologise if posted in wrong section.. i wanted to ask, my cca request from the BOS is now approching 12 months with no cca provided, around 7 months ago the only thing they sent out was a copy of an application form, which i informed them this was an application form, not a cca, we have had many letters over the 12 months from their in-house dca, "albion, oliver, etc, latest letter last week threating court action, wrote back informing them it is now 12 months since my cca request and they still have not privided it.. how long should this go on? any one have any advice

hi all,, a quick update,, recieved another letter from bos yesterday, its dated 29 sep 2009, the post must be running late, its 2 pages, here it is a couple of points before i ask for your help with what to do. Between this letter and the last letter they sent us, should i reply by pointing out every law they have broken? 1) starting with the last letter they sent, they state the reconstruction of the terms and conditions and the application form they sent is good enough to be a properly executed agreement... THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 - Sections 77 and 78 The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this 2)In the letter they state in regards to the account being in dispute " you have given no basis for this dispute and in our opinion the agreement is enforcable" is failure to provide an agreement not a good basis for a dispute? 3)they state " whilst the actual credit limit is not shown as this is not known at the point the customer would have signed the agreement.. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice. In our view a debt collector who has bought the debt is the ‘creditor’ and as such takes on the liabilities of section 77. Under section 77(4), if the creditor is unable to provide this information, he is not entitled to enforce the debt while he remains in default (Decriminalised from 26 May 2008 on the coming into force of the CPRs). 4) the first thing i noticed with this letter is the address, its no longer from Dunfermline Fife, this one's from Trinity road Halifax, is this the Head Office? 5) they state "clause 2.2 of your terms and conditions contain details of the minimum payment you must make each month... how do they know this? when they dont have a true copy of the original agreement with the terms and condition? 6) they are still demanding payment and adding penalties onto the account whilst the account is in dispute, the reason the account is in dispute is, they have faild to provide a the agreement. 7) they are threating to terminate the agreement and close the account?,,, there is no agreement as if there was an agreement they would have sent this to us.. 8) they a threating " we may take legal proceeding against you and/or instruct a DCA to recover any amount you owe us.. they may take legal action,however they do not have any agreement to prodcue in court,, 1974 act , says they can not pass the debt to a DCA whilst the account is in dispute.. 9)they state " we may also transfer money from any other accounts you may have with us to reduce the debt outstanding?,, are they allowed to do this?,, in any case our other account is already overdrawn. 10) if you have not paid the amount requested within 28 days of this letter, or made satisfactory proposal to dod so, we will pass details of the default to a credit ref agency... are they allowed to do this? the issue here at the moment seems to be the account in dispute, they say i have no basis,, im saying their failure to provide an agreement is a valid reason for the account to be in dispute.. could someone let me know, what we should do now David

shadow on that link you provided i found this information,, this relates to the in formation the bos has stated in the letter, saying that the customer would have signed the agrement! Therefore it is misleading to state, when complying with a section 77 or 78 request, that the debtor has signed or would have signed (or similar) the enclosed agreement where the debtor has not done so. From 26 May 2008 such a statement will be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs). Regulation 5 of the CPRs states that a commercial practice is a misleading action if it contains false information in relation to the main characteristics of the product (amongst other matters) and is likely therefore to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise. The product in question is the credit agreement and the main characteristics include the ‘execution of the product’ (Regulation 5(5)(d) of the CPRs). Telling a consumer that he signed such an agreement is also a misleading statement about his rights and the risks he might face as covered by Regulation 5(4)(k) of the CPRs. It is our view that it is likely that a consumer will take a transactional decision to make a payment under the credit agreement or to refrain from exercising his rights under the agreement as a result of being misled about whether he signed it. Breach of Regulation 5 of the CPRs is a criminal offence under Regulation 9 and can also be enforced under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002. Under section 218A of the Enterprise Act, where an application for an Enforcement Order is made the court may require the Respondent ‘to provide evidence of the accuracy of any factual claim’ (such as a claim that a debtor has signed a credit agreement). In addition, it should be noted that threats to take action that cannot be taken is listed as one of the factors that will be considered in assessing aggressive practices in Regulation 7(2) of the CPRs.

thanks shadow, im just reading through the letters just now,,however straight away i can see "The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original". and this is the very documents they have stated they have sent me.. how can they prove it an excact copy?,, do we just have to take their word for this? also how can they prove that my sister ever singed any agreement?, she signed an application form dated 1995, however this does not even prove that the application was even successful.. thanks shadow,,, im not sure where to go from here, do we keep asking for a copy of the agrement, or do something els?, i will wait for your letter, and send it to them

Hi everyone,, as i mentione before bos reply was due on 6th oct 2009, as usual they have replied back well within this time limit,, can you's have a look and let me know your thoughts on this letter? on reading this letter, im not 100% sure, but are they not basically saying they do not have the properly executed agreement? also when you get down to the personal part of "i have found no previous record of this account being in dispute" you can obviously tell that bos are very unhappy and annoyed with our request, as obviously they cant produce the agreement.. and yes bos is correct there have never been any previous dipute, for the simple fact that we have never requested the agreement before.. they also suggest that " you have had the benifit of this account since 1995" is this account been for free? did bos give us this account out of the goodness of their heart? should we be thanking bos for the privilege of this account?.. what are bos suggesting?, are they suggesting we waiver our legal rights to ask for a true executed agreement, because they are annoyed? . where should we go from here?

thanks gary,, very good letter, it clearly states the current situation.. i did post up the documents they sent, but i left some private info on them and had to remove them.. we have not requested SAR yet. their reply to our last letter is due 6th Oct, and they have been prompt with their reply letters, so waiting for that.. they sent out terms and conditions, when we wrote back they then sent out application form, we wrote again, and they sent the same application form.. not sure if you seen the application form, but you are correct, it was visa then changed to mastercard, but the application form they sent shows, its ticked for "visa only" its signed and dated by my sister " 12th July 1995" there are no terms and condition no APR no credit limits no payment schedule and someone has written at bottom "aprove in normal manner" im not sure what year visa changed to mastercard, but i dont think it was as far back as 1995, which means angela did not sign for a new card, as im sure they would have sent that already. i assume bos are not going to just fold with this, but its now 66 days since our first request. they have also been telephoning the house at lest 3 times a week, also breaking the data protection act by informing whoever answers the phone that it the BOS and they want to speak to Angela, basically informing whoever answers the telephone, that angela has a bos account,,is this not against the law? also adding penalties to the account for non payment. and sending cards through the door asking angela to telephone a 0845 telephone number.. PS,, I DO APOLOGISE, i originally said the card was taken out 1992,, my mistake, it was 1995, 14 years ago. David

weldone gary,, you certainly have had a very good result with this,, hope our's go's the same,, were now 70 days still waiting for a true caa, they have sent everything except a true caa. David

i can confirm from ourselves, your help and advice is very much appreciated, if it wasn't for this consumer forum, there would be no help available as due to our financial situation, solicitors fees are out of the question at this present time. so everyone who has helped and givin their advice. thank you very much.

thanks for that. its a terrible thing to say, but reading through other peoples stories, its a comfort to know we are not on our own and other people are in the same position, i know that sound terrible but it real does help to know your not on your own.

thanks. first of all, we have not requested a SAR yet, should i request one now? are they allowed to flog the debt to a dca if the account is in dispute?. their reply to our last letter is due 6th Oct 2009, so we will wait for their reply, and the follow your advice by starting the complaint at trading standard, and complain to bos, and oft, basically complain to anyone who is willing to listen? i would say at this point in time the judge sherrif route is upto bos if they wish to take action, at this time, i would say this is a simple straight forward case, by law we requested a cca, it is now 60 somthing days later and bos has failed to provide a caa, they may quote they have prived sufficiant documention, however as far as i am led to believe an application form does not to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974. dont get me wrong, we are worried about this, its causing sleepless nights, but i beleive im on the right side of the law with this. we will wait for their reply and then follow your instructions advice.. thanks again for all and everyones help with this..

thanks for that, iv removed it now.. what do you make of the bos saying they were sending a representative to the house?? just to let you know, no rep turned up at the house..

Hey guys, any chance of some feed back advice on this.. thanks

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