Hi all, Received these back from Cabot... I'm 99% sure the agreement is unenforceable but they have written back a letter I have not seen on these boards which is making reference to a number of points... I have uploaded the "CCA" and the response from Cabot... Any help appreciated... as a point of contention with Cabot the "Argos date stamp" is Jan 2002 whereas the date signed is 2003. Thanks and any help is appreciated (personal details blocked out). --- ---

My D-Day is the 19th... so I either expect a barrage of post between now and then or complete silence. If I hear nothing then I will suspect that they have absolutely nothing to go on by way of an agreement... then I will fire off another letter asking them to remove the defaults from my CF if they cannot substantiate the debt... "I mean it's only fair Rodders"

Swearing is pointless... it either gets them off the phone quicker (in which case the fun ends) or they take the moral high ground (which defeats the object of taking the p*** out of them). Best thing is to be dead serious because they never know how to respond properly... how can they deviate from a script? They never have enough training to adequately challenge you. If they ever say anything in the legal sense I always ask whether they have clearance/permission from their team leader to make such assertions... 9/10 they hang up... the other one is game for a laugh and it's easy to rip apart their p***-poor points. If they ring me I give it back tenfold... I wouldn't go out of my way to call them... ALTHOUGH If someone gave me good enough reason I would call them and pretend to be from a debt collectors and basically use their own tactics against them...

Ok... you did the CCA... they turn up with an agreement. They have their "smoking gun" for putting in a court app... If you defend a claim you need to prove that it is a forgery... burden of proof works two ways you see? They have proved you owe the debt... if you prove it is a forgery then the CCA is invalid. Now if I was a judge I would see it like this... 1) Have you ever used the name/signature? 2) Have you ever made payment on the account/acknowledged the debt exists? If the judge is satisfied on those two points he would accept that the claimant is legally entitled to recover the debt because he would see that there is the potential for you to have used your married name to take out the loan and accept the terms. If you can 100% prove a forgery then you have a defence... Now... ...if you believe they used a signature from the previous document... why not match it up with tracing paper with this "new" CCA? It is very rare that a signature matches 100% every single time, letter for letter, joined up etc etc... If you can prove they defaulted on the original CCA request... and that when pressed for it they turn up with one that has copied a signature exactly as it appears on the previous one then there is your defence.

I had one from them today aswell... very ambiguous letter... giving away nothing at all. It's just to intice you into calling them. I'm going to reply that I have had severe diarrhoea and that my grunting has rendered my vocal chords useless for a practical phone conversation and, with that in mind, it would be best to converse in the dark arts (writing).

A few choice grunting noises will help proceedings along quite nicely...

I mean to say... "go to the toilet while they are talking" - that's my next one... "sorry... I'm just taking a dump... bad curry last night... please continue!"

The thing is that the DCA's relied upon fear and people's perceptions of bailiffs... I think there's something in the idea too of the stigma attached to debt which was inherent from the older generation. In the village where I used to live people used to know everything about each other and gossip was rife... since the expansion of the towns and general proliferation of the consumer society people now brag about their debts in obvious ways... such as a new car (on HP of course), extensions paid for with the capital in the house (remortgage) and Christmases paid for on the credit cards. My wife (then girlfriend) used to literally shake and cry a few years ago before I came along and told her not to worry and that it couldn't be that bad. She had around £28,000 of debt once the interest payments added up... I mean she was a single mum, in a council house with £800 per month after tax... if there's anything telling about the state of our banks then it is lending to people like my wife in the quantities involved (she agrees with me on this - but had to keep reborrowing to pay off things). They stung her on things like PPI, massive late payment charges and interest because she didn't realise they were optional... She now laughs with me when the DCA's ring up... she knows the same as me that the errors of the banking system in the past are haunting them. Seriously... unless you have a house and items worth a hell of a lot of money the attempts by DCA's are futile.

DCA virgins... ...whatever next?

fuzzybobble... I have seen some of your clips on youtube... I reckon you are holding back too much!

It will have them rattled I'm sure of it... they have so many of these types of letters flying around... What we need is to set up a site dedicated to ratting out these DCA's... I might set up a blog especially for Wescot/Aktiv and Cabot so people can search it via google if they get a letter from them.

I've noticed this... since I started sending off CCA requests I have had 3 mysterious debts turn up from DCA's

This was a recent one and although I haven't used Blockbuster for 4 months or so the account, as far as I am concerned, is still "active" so I just phoned up Blockbuster, paid it, and called Wescot to tell them to leave me alone. I don't think they would have been impressed if I had offered £1 per month haha! I will have to post up the letter if I can find it.

More than likely... I will find out tommorrow I imagine because one CCA request for one of my wifes disputed debts is with Aktiv Krapital (I actually spelled it like that on one of my letters to them). If they complain I will just say it's a typo! Anyway... the 70% offer is clearly a last ditch attempt as they will rarely offer lower (I have never seen it) so hold tight and wait for inevitable to happen (as in... they can't find it and will send an application form).

I have set a new record... £6.40 from a Blockbuster video account!!! Chased by Wescot too!!!

Yeah keep us posted... patience and persistence is a virtue!

I'm going to pretend next time that they are my friend indeed and try to convert them to my new pseudo religion... All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are in simple contracts, 6 years in contracts under seal, 12 years. "If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment." Sorry but not sure where your information is from... ...if you didn't acknowledge/pay a debt for 6 years... then made a payment a day after and therafter the debt is still statute barred. But if acknowleged/paid within the limitation period then it starts from the date of last payment.

"slightly confused!" We all were once! "Is a debt statue barred from the default/ settled date or from the date of the last payment" ...from the date of last payment/acknowledgement on the account i.e. written letter/recorded phone call "and is that the last payment to the OC or the new DCA?" More than likely to the DCA... however... say for instance your debt with the OC is 6 years old + 1 day - this is statute barred. If you paid a DCA anyday after this you would be able to claim your money back from them and claim the debt as statute barred. UNLESS... It is a CCJ... in this case the petitioner (the DCA/OC) would need special permission from the court to enforce the CCJ. Hope this clarifies it for you.

1. Use a husky, dirty phone sex voice but ask normal questions about the proposed offer. “Is it a low interest rate? mmmmm…I like low interest rates…really low…” 2. In an outrageously excited tone: “Thank god you called!!!” Explain that an online psychic told you that your future lover would randomly call disguised as an asshole. 3. Say you are hard of hearing and see how loud they will shout into the phone. 4. Allow the DCA to fully explain the issues. When he is finished explain that his company hired you to randomly spot check DCA's on their performance. Tell him that he did a good job overall, but that he is a bit monotone and needs to fluctuate his tone of voice more to sound convincing. He also should pause longer between sentences, and more clearly pronounce the letter “s”. Tell him you won’t report him if he repeats his speech to you with the appropriate corrections. Repeat. 5. Be incredibly polite as they explain their offer, but make farting noises once in a while and ask whether there is something wrong with the connection. 6. In an annoyed tone cut them off mid sentence : “Dan, stop screwing around…we have to get rid of this body fast, did you find a chainsaw or not?” 7. “Congratulations! You’re the 100th caller on the (insert local radio station) Sweet Vacation Giveaway Blast Marathon. You’ve just won a backstage pass to Supermarket Sweep and the use of Dale Winton's celebrity home.” 8. Flirt. 9. Keep repeating, “I knew you were going to say that…” 10. Stutter on a syllable of an obvious word in a sentence… see how long it takes before he completes the phrase. When he does, get upset, and say “That really hurts my fee…fee… fee… fee…feel…fee… fee… fee…” ad infinitum. 11. Pee on the phone while he’s talking. 12. Mid pitch, stop him and complement him on his wonderful voice. Explain that you are a voiceover scout and might have a breakthrough commercial job for him. Ask if he wouldn’t mind doing a quick test. Ask him to say in a deep husky voice “May cause dizziness, diarrhea, vomiting and shortness of breath. A small number of participants in a recent clinical trial experienced weight loss, irregular clotting, abnormally frequent and/or painful urination and hair loss. Results may vary” 13. Ask how much it would take to get him to stop working as a DCA agent. Start at £50. Say you are dead serious. 14. Ask if he will be your friend if you sign up. 15. Tie obscure facts about Barbara Streisand to everything thing he says,, “2.3% interest rate? oh my…did you know Barbara was 23 when she filmed Funny Girl…” 16. Every few minutes repeat, “You’re going to have to bear with me, I have a slight short term memory loss problem…who is this again?” 17. “Oh my god, I used to have your job…does Bob still work there (repeat names until you find a match)…which building are you in?” Escalate coincidence until you both realise that you sat in the same chair. Explain that you had to quit work when your genitals mysteriously vanished. 18. Challenge them to any contest you like... like connect 4 or monopoly... state your superiority and their lack of masculinity. 19. Every half-minute ask him to hold and pretend to scream at your invalid mother. “You want to use the bathroom??? Well stop whining and get up out of the wheelchair for a change. You just sit there and think about that for a while, mother. Can’t you see I’m on the damn phone?” 20. Forgive him. Tell him you did. Over and over again, until he hangs up. Then secretly take it back.

1. The silence. Dont hang up, but just put the phone down and walk away, by the time they figure out that you are not there you will have wasted good amounts of their time. 2. Prolonged silence. Put the phone down and periodically, pick it back up and see if they are there, give a couple of um hmms and then put the phone back down. 3. Advanced silence. This one is a beauty. Answer the phone; let them start their pitch and then say, "one second". Go back to doing what ever it was that you were doing, preferably loudly. Pick the phone back up and say "Ok, you were saying, let them start talking again and then interrupt them again saying, some thing like "Oh wait someone is at the door". Again go back to doing whatever it was you were doing, and pick the phone back up, apologise and say "go on". Repeat as many times as you possibly can. The great thing about this technique is that it really puts you in control of the situation. While the DCA's bet on the fact that you can't say no on the phone, you can play on the fact that most people will stay on the line if you need to do something momentarily. On this one it can be fun to see how long you can keep them on the line. Conversational Techniques these are higher risk techniques as they involve actually listening to what the DCA has to say. It is important to remind yourself that they are the enemy, decide before you begin not to say yes to anything. 4. Play dumb, Simply act like a moron, let them speak and when they finally ask you a question, work up a good mouthful of drool and say something totally unrelated and stupid, as if you have no idea what is going on. My favorite take on this one is "No man". In mid sentence say "no" as if you were Dustin Hoffman in "Rain Man". Then as soon as he starts to speak again say "no", and if he speaks again, Yell loudly "no no no", this normally freaks them out a bit, and then they will ask another question to try to get their bearings at which point you yell a good and drawn out"NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO". Most of the time this gets them to hang up. 5. The deaf man. This is always fun. Let them give their initial pitch, and then when they ask you a question ask tell them that you can't hear very well and that they should repeat themselves. Let them go through the bit a second time, when they finish, kindly ask them a stupid question about what they just said like, "I am so sorry, I can't hear you very well, did you say you were from Severn Trent?" This will send them into their bit a third time at which you ask them to progressively speak louder and louder. If you can get them yelling into the phone you score double points. 7. The obvious question. Let them start and as soon as they stop, ask them something like, "do you know what time it is" after they answer, tell them, "yeah that is the same time I have, do you ever get bothered by people who call late like this?" "Yeah, so what do you do about them" I think you get the point. 6. The personal conversation. This one is neither abusive nor particularly funny but it is really really effective. Let them go into their bit, go along for a little bit, and then act as if you just met the person and start asking them personal questions, try to get to know them. Once you find out something you have in common you've got a conversation going. This is great because it wastes tons of their time, and you can really meet some interesting people. This has become a major challenge between my friends and I, the record thus far has been 24 minutes, although I think the hour record is prime to be broken this year. The whole idea is to make a sport out of this, personally I find that wasting an hour of DCA harassment time is way more fulfilling than watching an hour of TV. And the good side of it is that you are doing a public service. So good luck, and join in. *adapted from an Epinions article

Gazumped! The trouble with dealing with the call handlers is that they are all either just out of school "yoofs", working mums or spinsters whose sole job is to follow script until they gain enough experience and suck enough phalluses to reach the holy grail of call centre work: team leader! Team Leaders know even less about legislation because their only job is to filter calls to people who know what they are doing and fill in pointless charts and try to keep the next lot of depressives content enough in their jobs so they don't leave to make something of their lives. So... in other words... they are the most unsatisfying people to try it on with and frustrate. You should do what I did... ... and get the Director of HFO Services on the phone! He was an arrogant prat too... and not long after I wound him up I get a CCJ from them... so probably not the best thing to do. Got to pay £75 to get the bleedin' thing set aside now!

It's all about cajones right now... ...just got to sit tight and send letters left, right and centre requesting credit agreements/statements/NoAs etc etc. If you ignore it they could just take action anyway... if you send letters they might believe you are stalling for time and take action anyway... either way it could end up bad so just do what you can to delay them and keep them guessing! Good luck!

I had exactly the same letter... word for word... Basically fired off a s. 189 letter to them. Here's my example which you are of course free to make use of an amend to suit your own circumstances: I sent that on the 9th of March... and they replied two days later with an offer of a 70% settlement... THEN ...they sent out their "credit agreement" which they stated fulfilled my request in full and expect the full balance to be paid within 7 days. Trouble was... the CA was an application form... so another letter goes back to them similar to the one above.

Hi The term regarding an offence after 30 days is incorrect as it was repealed by the new 2006 CCA. This means that if no valid executed agreement has been provided after 12 w. days then the account goes into default until such a time an agreement turns up. During this time the normal limitations apply such as not being required to make payments/them not demanding payment etc. This is irrefutable and without equivocation. They are quite correct in some of their assertions, particularly the part about acknowledging the debt. The point you need to be hitting home is that the debt is unenforceable in court and via any other legal process they wish to employ. The term regarding section 2 (a) is: "The processing is necessary— (a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party" This is correct in one sense. However, in the absence of an executed credit agreement they would have a hard time arguing the fact that they are legally able to process your data. At this point your best bet is to write something like this: If you decided to take them to court the case could immediately be ruled in your favour owing to the fact they would be in breach of the CPR. A judge would see they have no legal basis, in terms of the CCA, in enforcing the debt.