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Can anyone shed anymore pearls of wisdom on this one Gizmo7

I see what you mean but i have received what they believe to be a copy of the agreement but it is illegible in places. Gizmo7

Hi everyone, I need a little bit of advice regarding an illegible CCA. I CCA'd Halifax under section 78 (1) of the 1974 act. I received in response to this a signed priority application form dated 1998 and T&C's which are apparantly on the reverse. As parts of both the application form and T&C's were illegible i wrote back quoting Regulation 2 (Legibility of notices and copy docs). In reply to my request for a legible compliant copy of my agreement they supplied a blank copy of an application form dated 1996 which is differently laid out than my original and further T&C's which are not fully legible either. They aknowledge in their covering letter that on reviewing the copy application form some parts are difficult to read. They however advise the signature box is legible and there is no doubt that the original document at the time of signing would have been clear and legible. The fact the copy is poor does not invalidate the legality of the document. They also advise they have fulfilled their obligation for a legible copy of my agreement under the Act by providing me with both historic and current terms and conditions, it is not a requirement under S78 to provide a signed copy application, however this was done as a courtesy. For the avoidence of doubt i have provided a copy of a template application that is legible to show what you would have signed- this is a more recent application form and is for info only. They advise this is a newer copy application but its dated 1996 and my application is 1998???? Can somebody please advise on the above and possibly give me a template return letter. Thanks Gizmo7

Hi Steve, The signature is legible its other parts that are not for example the Cap one application info under Consumer credit agreement is totally illegible. 2007 T&C's are supplied on 2 seperate sheets which show apr etc are legible but seperate from the signature doc never the less. The MBNA one has patches of illegibility on both the application form and seperate T&C's. Gizmo7:rolleyes:

Thanks you have been a great help. Gizmo7:grin:

thanks a lot, i will wait and see what their next move is. Lastly if they do go for court will this be in my local court. Thanks Gizmo7

Cerberusalert, Trading stds did not seem to be aware of Regulation 2. Furthermore he reconed if it went to court the Judge may rule in their favour. Whats your take on things as they stand and what further action should i take if any. Trading stds advised me to futher contact MBNA even though they have not written to me since the start or March. Thanks Gizmo7

Cerberusalert, I forgot to mention cabot advised in a letter to me they didn't have to provide an original true copy if it no longer existed. I assume the original was shredded and this is a computer copy Gizmo7

Cerberasulert, Both these application forms were supplied with seperate terms and conditions showing things like apr etc. MBNA have sent 3 blown up copies each time i complained they got bigger but the same area's were illegible. When i mentioned the T&C's should be within the four corners of the page they sent a photocopy of the application form with the seperate T&C's on the back (double sided photocopying). Cabot advised the capital one Application would have been legible when i signed it indicating it didn't need to be now. Trading Standards were very negative saying they had no powers to do anything. Gizmo7

Hi, cerberusalert, I made a complaint to the OFT and Trading stds. Trading stds advised me that credit card companies can supply seperate T&C's and up to date ones for that matter on running accounts. If these companies decide on court action how does the Regulation 2 fair in a court. Is it a valid defence in relation to illegible docs?? Thanks Gizmo7

Hi Everyone, Need a bit of advice from one of you experienced people. Firstly can somebody advise me if 2007 T&C's can be used for application forms signed in 1998/1999?? I understood the T&C's were to be within the signature document and not on seperate sheets. Secondly, both agreements sent by Capital one and MBNA were illegible in places in particular the small print which i would assume to be the important bits if there was any in the first place. I have written to both companies quoting Regulation 2 (legibility of notices and copy docs) and advising them they have not complied with my S78 (1) request. Each letter i have sent i have demanded a legible copy. Nothing has appeared only threatening letters from their external agents. I was advised a while ago that when an account is in dispute it could not be passed to other agents or commence litigation. Please advise:confused: Gizmo7

Hello Everyone, Can anyone advise me on the following. My wife CCA'D halifax under section 78 (1) 1974. She received in response to this a copy of a priority application form. What is baffling is the heading has my name and my wifes' ie: postal address at the top includes both our names. Almost looks like an application for a joint card or something. Suffice to say i never signed it but my wife did. Can an application form with two names on it which has only been filled in and signed by one person be enforceable?? Also the application form and T&C's they have supplied are illegible in places. I would appreciate a quick response to the above please.

Thanks for your input pt2537 and cerberusalert, What would you suggest i do now or should i merely sit tight and await further developments. They have advised a further escalation of collection activity in 7 days. I'm shakin in my boots! lol Thanks Gizmo7:rolleyes:

dear cerberusalert, Are you familiar with the comment Cabot made regarding the Secretary of State and what does it mean?? Thanks Gizmo:confused:

Hi everyone, I made a CCA request to Cabot who now own this Capital one account. I received in response to this, an illegible copy of my application form dated 1999 and two seperate sheets containing the T&C's dated 2007. I quickly responded to them quoting Regulation 2 and informed them based on this they had not fulfilled their obligation under the CCA act of 1974. I also advised them that as the T&C's were not "Embodied" in the signature document it rendered it unenforceable by virtue of S127 (3). The only good piece of info i did get from them was in one of the attached letters to me they advise the Original true copy is no longer in existence. Can somebody cast their eye over the comments and in particular the legislation Cabot have quoted and advise. Many Thanks Gizmo7:confused: http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt147/ringo7-2009/cabot.jpg http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt147/ringo7-2009/cabot1.jpg http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt147/ringo7-2009/cabot3.jpg

Steven, I have as you advised sent a letter to MBNA to request a legible copy if it exists. If they provide this what steps can i take to see if the T&C's are embodied in the signed document.

Steven, you are right that i have had to use a magnifying glass to read most of it and the Financial and related terms are the worst. When you have seen these T&C's before were they on a seperate sheet. The other thing is you stated in your earlier threads that the agreement must be headed properly: Quote: credit card agreement regulated by the CCA1974. My agreement does not mention the word CARD in its heading or in the signature box. Please advise:?

It says in the section above the signature box the following: I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card terms and conditions. This would seem to indicate page 2 is not the reverse of the signed document. Also it is not headed credit CARD agreement as i thought it ought to be. Please advise anyone:?

Steven, I have posted my new thread under general debt issues ( MBNA CCA enforceable??). Can you advise if you think this is unenforceable. Many Thanks:confused:

Hi Steven, The below links are for the MBNA CCA request i made. Please advise:? http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt147/ringo7-2009/mbna2.jpg http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt147/ringo7-2009/mbna.jpg Can anyone advise if the above application can be considered a valid CCA??

Hi Steven, The above is the copy of what i received as a valid CCA from MBNA. Please advise.:?

Steven, i am new to all this. how exactly do i do this??:?

Hi Steven, Have been following your threads and have used your earlier checks to assess whether my Mbna CCA is enforceable or not. I wonder if you could give me a second opinion. I CCA'd MBNA and received a copy of a proirity application form dated 1998. Firstly, the application form is not headed Credit Card Agreement but merely states below application form Credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. It does not show any credit details on it and has an attached copy of the Financial Related conditions. It does not refer to the conditions being overleaf. Furthermore it states "i have received a copy and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card terms and conditions". This would also seem to me to be an indication that the prescribed terms are not on the signed document. Looking forward to your comments.