You and me both! I believe it is due any day now, just awaiting the Judges' return from Summer Leave. If it's the commission issue you are dealing with, I am also awaiting case law that favours Hurstanger over Harrison.

Yes they did concede today that if a secret commission was paid the agreement would be rendered void and unenforceable, whether this amounts to an Unfair Relationship will be a decision to be made at the final hearing which is set for early January in Birmingham. Today was just a directions hearing to assess what remains to be decided. In their original defence they denied paying secret commission but then admitted it at trial saying only a small amount was paid so they could argue causation and get away with it. The High Court judge reminded them of Hurstanger at the appeal and admonished their causation defence, employing the principle of Equitable Duty. I now have to provide the transcript of the High Court Judgment so that the final hearing can be based on the Lord Justice's findings. They have been pushing for further disclosure, I expect they want to try to use the Harrison case. Let's hope for a favourable outcome to this appeal, it would be great to see their only defence case law overturned! I believe the judgment is expected early October.

I must admit I am feeling quite big!

Just been back to County Court for a very interesting directions hearing! The judge got the other side to admit that the payment of secret commission would render the original agreement void and unenforceable and so the gist of the final hearing will be to examine the findings of the High Court and determine whether commission was paid and what should then happen with regard a ruling for Unfair Relationship. Bring it on!!

Thank you, I was more confused as to why they are representing welcome?? Usually welcome have their own partners in crime they use exclusively, hmmm... maybe they got the sack for completely messing up somebody else's case

Sorry to butt in, who are DLA Piper???

Ah that's ok It is so confusing, I think I'm going to put in for all my costs from day one. I don't doubt for one minute that the other side would do any less! I suppose we are sort of returned to the pre-trial state at present in order for a new trial judgment to be given. I'm thinking that if I win this time then it means I should've won the first time round and so would've been entitled to my costs in the first trial; it just took a little trip to High Court, (and a few more expenses), to get to there in the end! In effect I have actually won on 2 out of 3 of my causes of action, just left to decide if their Trespass, Breach of Statutory Duty, Contravention of Section 92 and Fraud constitute an Unfair Relationship! Can't say I have much faith in district judges these days so who knows, but I already have my victory as far as I'm concerned

Couldn't agree more! They entirely humiliated me and in the end it turns out I was right and they were wrong after all.... Yes I think a little suing will work wonders for the next time they are faced with a similar situation

I expect it will be public considering it was a High Court judgment. I was just wondering how important my anonymity actually is at this stage! I kind of felt like I gave up any right to that when I decided to appeal to the High Court Any ideas about my costs question??

Thank you kindly, I can hardly believe it myself! It has sort of become a norm in my life I'm going to feel like I've lost an old friend when this is finally over As for the police, they will have their turn too There is a rather large section of Goode that lists all the possible criminal consequences of a breach of S.92 Now how would it be if somebody reported a crime in progress and then the police arrived and assisted the perpetrator in completing his crime??? As soon as this case is finalised and I have the transcript in my hand, there will be a certain PC that is going to rue the day he ever crossed me , (and let himself be filmed doing it..... )

Thanks G, I am so proud. I can't tell you the difference this has made to my life. I doubt very much if the other side will lower themselves to make me an offer They are still playing their silly little games and continue to screw themselves over at every opportunity The funny thing is that I absolutely couldn't care less what happens at the remit, as far as I'm concerned I have achieved what I set out to achieve and anything else after this is neither here nor there! It's quite amusing to watch their spoilt brat tantrum actually, how awful for them; beaten by a little LiP girl in High Court All I wanted was to prove that they couldn't do what they did, and perhaps get a High Court judgment, and perhaps make them very unhappy, and perhaps cost them an absolute fortune, and perhaps bring their corrupt and fraudulent practices in front of a very senior Lord Justice, and perhaps make case law......

Hello all, I could do with a little advice on a couple of things...... We will shortly be going back to County Court for the remit and I'm a bit unsure of how far back I can put my costs. At the appeal the Lord Justice set the entire judgment aside including the costs they were awarded. Can I only claim my costs of bringing the appeal and that of the remit or can I put in for my costs of the whole thing from trial?? Secondly, does anybody know the exact CAG rules about anonymity? It's just that I'm due to get the approved judgment at some time after the 12th Sept and I'd like to know if I can post it here or do I still have to blank out the personal info??

Yes I do have a thread but it is a helluva long read! It's over in the Vehicle Repossessions forum. In a nutshell welcome repossessed my car from private property without a court order in breach of Section 92 of the CCA. It all got very convoluted and they started bringing a load of other issues into it so I amended my POC and claimed for all the other issues they were so keen to bring up too! Including secret commission. Their idiot team couldn't think of anything better to say than "deny everything, whatever she said-we didn't do it your honour!" When it came to trial they changed their story from "we didn't do it" to "yes we did do it but it was only small and so it shouldn't matter" and unfortunately the trial judge allowed this and then went on to err in law when interpreting S92. It was a total travesty and so I felt I had no option but to appeal to the High Court, which I did and won. The Lord Justice allowed my appeal on the grounds of the payment of secret commission and also made a ruling that S.92 did apply and they did breach it. He attacked their professionalism and mocked and ridiculed their non-nonsensical defence They have been very quiet with me lately too, maybe it's losing in High Court to an LiP on an issue that they have previously been paid a lot of money to provide defences to, or maybe it's because the one and only case they have been relying on for their defence has been appealed in Supreme Court and the judgment is expected any day now?? I think their very fragile house of cards has come tumbling down

Hello, I have been following your thread on and off for a little while now and I just wanted to add a little comment. I know exactly what place you are in right now and it is awful, there were many times when I wanted to give it all up too. I agree totally with your last post; this is definitely not something that should be undertaken lightly. On a slightly brighter note I have been wanting to tell you that not all barristers know what they are talking about, a lot of them are driven by the £££s as opposed to justice and welcome's smarmy solicitor and barrister can be beaten. I have dealt with them both personally and I know their underhanded tactics inside out, just because the man wears a wig and a black gown does not make him right or knowledgeable or decent! I approached a barrister to help me with my case and he as good as told me that if I wasn't incredibly wealthy then I didn't stand a chance of winning! As it turned out, I decided to blunder on as an LiP and went to High Court on Appeal and won against welcome sodding finance! Incidentally, the issue the Lord Justice was most pee'd off about was the secret commission, he battered their barrister and forced him to address the issue of 'equitable duty'. i.e. "equity favours those with clean hands". Nobody would blame you for withdrawing as I can totally sympathise with how you are feeling right now and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, (except maybe welcome and their scummy tag alongs). They will try to baffle you with big words and intimidating tactics because that's the kind of people they are, they have no interest in justice or doing what's right, it's all about getting their bent clients out of the hole they dug for themselves. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say really and well done for hauling them over the coals; anybody that causes welcome grief is top in my book!

It has turned into a very complicated issue, unfortunately there has never been previous case law on this issue itself so this was always going to be a test case. The law is that they are not allowed to enter your property and remove your vehicle without a court order, if they do you can make a claim for breach of statutory duty. In Goode Consumer Credit Law and Practice it is stated that the damages awarded will be akin to trespass, so the award will be based on how much of a trespass occurred. In my case all they did was step on my drive so for this I was awarded nominal damages, that is not to say another case would not be different with respect to the damage caused. Now this is where it gets a little more interesting....my claim was for Unfair Relationship under Section 140 of the CCA 1974. I claimed that their breach of statutory duty, along with the payment of secret commission, gave rise to an unfair relationship. For this the powers of the court are wide ranging, I have claimed release from all further liability and return of all monies paid, effectually restoring us to the position we would've been in had the agreement never been entered into. This amount will be decided as a result of the remit of the case back to County Court and I will update as soon as I hear the news. The appeal judge found that original judgment was wrong and so set the whole thing aside, it now has to be remitted to the County Court for them to give the right judgment. As an aside, there are other parts of Goode that make reference to the criminal consequences of their actions, but that's another story! If I could give any advice based on my experiences it would be this: Don't start anything like this unless you have balls of steel! It isn't a quick way to make some cash, it's about fairness and standing strong for what is right. It should be a lot easier to make a claim of this sort now that findings have been made by a High Court Judge Even if you are awarded nominal damages, you will still have won in principle Don't put all your eggs in one basket and keep things simple. If there are other issues you have with the lender then raise them, all the issues I raised have accumulated to make very good overall picture of their deceit and how they have treated me. Be prepared for a fight to the death, the other side will not ever want to admit defeat! That's pretty much all I can say really, it has been an immense struggle to get to this stage and one I very nearly didn't complete. Nonetheless, it's over now and I can look my beautiful girls in the eye and tell them that mummy didn't give in to the bullies......priceless

Thank you! It certainly does feel good I do somehow doubt that there will be anything sensible forthcoming from the other side! The Judge was desperately trying to discreetly encourage them to settle once it was over but they were too busy having a strop to listen. At present they are trying to pressure me into a CMC but they seem to forget that this is MY case and I get to make the choices, not them. The problem they are now having is that their defence to the secret commission issue is not applicable to my pleadings or even their own defence lol! Their defence said "no commission was paid and the allegations are tantamount to allegations of fraud", but then at trial they admitted paying a commission but said it was only a small amount and so it didn't matter! They tried really hard to make an argument based on fiduciary duty but unfortunately got torn to shreds by the judge about it as that wasn't what was pleaded by me or defended by them and so didn't apply, (even if it did they couldn't reasonably show it in any case!). The High Court Judge summed it up beautifully - "so Mr XXXXX, say you were hit by a bus on the way here today, then who would've been here to tell me all this????" I believe they want a CMC so they can try to get the judge to agree to amendments to the pleadings but I have told them I am not willing to amend anything and I am happy for the case to be remitted as is. Unfortunately they are not listening and are making up some rubbish about how witness statements will need to be filed and the length and venue of the hearing decided! I am sure the court are perfectly capable of making those minor directions all by themselves. The real problem here is that their 'professionals' got beat in front of a High Court Judge by a lowly LiP I have quite plainly told them that the issues are not substantially different from those at the original trial or the appeal hearing and so nothing further needs discussing, but for some reason they aren't very happy with that.....

You betcha I'll be applying for the transcript soon and I'll be more than happy to share.

It is definitely a sad state of affairs when it takes a High Court hearing for them to admit they were wrong. There were many times when I wanted to give up the fight but I'm glad I persevered, justice has been done and that is all I ever wanted x Thank you to everybody that lent their support, it has been invaluable and I'm so glad I'm able to finally share good news with you all

Not quite that straightforward I'm afraid lol! It was ruled in the High Court Judgment that they did need a court order, they didn't have one and they shouldn't have done what they did but as there were no physical damages to my property the compensation should be nominal. Which in all honesty I am perfectly happy with, all I needed was to prove that I was right and they were wrong which was successfully proved by a High Court Judge yesterday Now the secret commission element of it is another story, the appeal was granted on this basis therefore it will have to go back in front of a district judge for him to "think again". Although it will have to be a different judge to the trial judge. My claim is for unfair relationship and none of their defences so far have been able to show anything to the contrary so if it does end up back in county court chances are I will win based on the judgment of the High Court. The damages I claimed in this respect are for return of all monies paid and release from all further liability, so we will see how that pans out.....

The hearing and judgment was very long and complicated but the gist of it is that they DO need a court order to remove a vehicle from private property although the amount of damages is limited. Permission to appeal was granted on the ground of secret commission and then the subsequent appeal was then granted Permission to appeal was actually refused on the grounds of Section 92 although it was admitted by the appeal judge and conceded by the other side that the trial judge had erred in law in this respect. The reason being that even if the judge had ruled in my favour he would not have been able to award any further damages as he had already covered this when ruling in my favour for trespass. Quote by the Right Honourable Lord Justice: "The judgment and associated costs are set aside and you have won"

The judge was an absolute credit to his profession and I am in complete awe of him - and the other side acted like a pair of spoilt brats having a tantrum

I'll post back with all the gory details shortly, just need to get kiddies to school x

I won!!!!!

Let's hope so, although nothing surprises me any more! The odd thing is that I haven't heard anything from the other side, is this normal??

Thank you, we can but hope! Just had word from the court today that the judge that is hearing my case has been changed. I feel slightly more reassured by this as the new Judge is very well respected and has previously been described as the UK's best academic lawyer, he also has expertise in the areas of civil evidence, damages, and financial services so hopefully he should know what he's talking about! Fingers crossed x