Ragtaggeorge
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Everything posted by Ragtaggeorge
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Not something I know anything about. You can set up a basic account with no overdraft at a few banks that will allow you DD's etc. Choose one that has no group links with other creditors. Even my mother who is retired and very solvent (no outstanding balances and never missed paying off fully at end of month) had a store application turned down when they did an in shop application and credtit check!
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Big black borders around agreements is indicative of copies taken from microfiche...if they had the original they would have photocopied that probably...they might have it buiried in a warehouse and be looking for it...in the meantime if you decide to go the this is not a true copy route, wait for them to issue a N1 (court claim form)...the bung in a civil procedures request before allocation and they will have to give you a true copy, if that happens to have black borders again...they have to provide the original paper at the court even if the original that was micromiched was enforceable (depends on when your agreement started, see previous posts) - which I don't think it is. Thanks for the green my first :¬)
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They have to be the T & C current when you signed, the required details and signature have to be on the same piece of paper, they also have to provide you with a full statement of account. If they had a valid agreement they would not have continued charging interest or resumed once they presented you with your bits. If however they do not have the original and take you to court they would be guilty of fraud.
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More of the same from another thread. Once you have the CCA and regs pdfs remember to check the passages are quoted properly and the right section has been annotated. 'Terms & Conditions can be used to fulfil a s78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 request if the executed agreement was signed during or prior to 1985. For executed agreements signed post 1985, but before April 2007 the institution has to provide the executed agreement to include all the prescribed terms and a number of other items. Without all the prescribed terms or a number of other items as outlined by the OFT to be included in an executed agreement, the executed agreement will be unenforceable under law... i.e. a court will not be able to enforce the agreement. As such you are in a strong position if the agreement was taken out between 1986 and March 2007. For executed agreement signed April 2007 or after it is up to a courts discretion as to whether enforce the agreement. Regardless however is that if the executed agreement was signed after 1986 the creditor is obliged to provide a copy within the statutory time limits, in this instance 12 days + 2 days after the request being made, if they fail then they fall into default - a state where they are not legally entitled to enforce the agreement with or without a court order. Any problems in securing a copy of the executed agreement, then I would suggest contacting your local trading standards department to obtain Citi's compliance - though I would suggest to TS that you require the document to be supplied to yourself to be compliant with s78(1). '
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'I note that the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the signature box and signature, to be omitted in a copy document, but that the copy document must be a ‘true copy’. This means identical in both form and content (including all prescribed terms as required), to the signed, executed, original agreement, as presented or sent to the debtor for signature. ' I note that section 172 of the CCA 1974 states that, 'A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under— section 78(1)' and I take this to be that any reply made in response to this request is binding upon you. Therefore you should ensure that all documents requested are supplied. Any missing documents will be considered not part of the agreement and could therefore affect the enforceability of anything you send. As you are no doubt aware section 77(4) of the CCA 1974 states: '(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;' Wadda bout that.
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Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement
Ragtaggeorge replied to sunflower99's topic in Capital One
Using the BT call barring thing only works until all ten are filled up and that happens quickly. Send them the harassment template add stuff about: how desperate the calls make you feel; forcing you to change your number would result in damages being claimed by yourself; tell them you are recording all your calls; if you are the type start shouting foul abuse at them and put the feel good factor back into your life ;¬) In the end I just changed my BT number. There is some new legislation you can use have a look at the site docs. -
Found this on the site somewhere...try using the search feature and select the headings only feature. ' CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect? s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21. If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order. 8.3 What are the prescribed terms? The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows: * amount of credit – see Q8. * credit limit – see Q8.5 * repayments – see Q8.9. * rate of interest – see Q8.6 Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations. They need to keep documents such as a copy of the agreement for 6 years after the closure of the account to comply with money laundering legislation. IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974) PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations (If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information) **What do we mean by unenforceable? In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information. Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable. How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only? When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable. When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.** The Prescribed Terms are these A Amount of credit A term stating the amount of credit B Repayments A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following- (a) Number of repayments; (b) Amount of repayments; © Frequency and timing of repayments; (d) Dates of repayments; (e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable. C Rate of interest A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement D Credit limit This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. -------------------------- Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have? For a Running Account (credit card) agreement BC and D Apply For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance. The money can only be used for the purpose it is given. There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price) And there is no advance payment A is applicable For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions A and B apply For a Hire Agreement B is Applicable This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper. Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.'
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What I mean is you do not really have to enforce anything, they have to prove it is a valid agreement. You have not commited a crime per se, read around the site and you will get a better angle on the situation. There are various passages of legislation you can quote at them to encourage disclosure but nothing would be enforceable unless they decide to start the court process. If you bung in your CCA before they default you with alot of hassle you can probably get them taken off if they have no agreement and so will not produce it at court. Can not do all your work for you sorry, the info about changes to the regs is also on the site. Read through the cca and regs pdfs.
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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-library/
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As to tarting well that is out of my realm. They are likely to issue defaults if they think you are contemplating going down the CCA route even though they should not once a CCA request has been submitted. That will impact your credit rating. As to winning on unenforceable agreements I have not found any figures, it is the last resort for me not a way to keep the credit merrygoround spinning.
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Yes, change your ID right away. What most bankers do is refuse to give any info to your CCA request to keep you guessing. Yes, if the original (true) agreement is produced at court the the agreement is enforceable. That is not really the issue. The bankers are in default until they produce a true copy from the 12 days after receipt of the request. If they have a true copy they will take you to court fairly quicky - if they think they you have the money or if they can con you into paying more than you can afford in repayments by saying they have shown you something that is not a true copy of the original. Basically if you have no reasonable likelyhood of being able to repay the loan and your CCA request does not show there is a valid agreement send out the template letters at the suggested intervals and stop making payments. React quickly using the template letters or other help from CAG to any letters you receive. Keep everything including envelopes, file it all away properly. Have no phone contact with the bankers full stop, there are standard harrassment templates you can use. Wait for them to take you to court if they do they have to provide you with a copy of the agreement they plan to prove the agreement with before the court date. The worse outcome is you end up paying what you can afford even if that is a £1 token payment and interest is frozen or set at max 8% from the court date. Obviously that will mess up your credit history for 6 years.
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They pass or often pretend to pass the loan to various front DCAs so that they can use questionable tactics and say to regulators, look its not me its them over there. There are a whole new raft of consumer regulations that came online a few months ago since when my personal harrasment level has dropped enormously. If you feel like fighting them there are a few tactics: tell them that their constant phone calls are driving you to contemplate suicide - in writing, never waste your time talking to them; tell them you wil detain anyone they send around in person for trespass until their indenty can be established.
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Hi Skeggsie, Looks like two halves of different documents both of which individually are not enforceable, IMHO. That does not even take into account that the agreement with signature and conditions must be presented to the court on the same piece of paper. Have a good look around the site all the answers on what to look for are out there. Wait for a more definitive answer.
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What's the worst that can happen?
Ragtaggeorge replied to Happyfeet24's topic in Debt Collection Agencies
Plus once the CCA agreement has not been produced they can not add interest or charges to the loan. After 6 years the account is statute barred. If they decide to enforce the agreement at court as FB says you will pay a token ammount and the interest rate will be frozen / fixed at a max of 8% (court int. rate) unless there is a specific clause in the orignal agreement for a different rate. -
Nice problem to have. C.Emptor.
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I you are stuck with your scanned images... Get them up on your screen at full size, hold down the Alt key while then pressing the Print Screen button. That copies the contents of the active window. Open a new file in photoshop / paint.net etc, paste (Ctrl V) into the file. Edit and save.
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Proposed Group Litigation Orders (Interested Parties)
Ragtaggeorge replied to Tom Brennan's topic in General
Barclays current just filed, charges greater than OD they want repaid. Qualify for legal aid - seems like a scheme to keep barristers in employment though. Could we not instruct someone who would be our creature like for example the number one CAGER. -
This link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159341-court-papers-received-what.html
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You need to also post in the litigation section now that you have a court date. That copy is illegiable on zoom try photo graphing it from directly above or better still take them along to someone with a scanner you can allways ask them to email the files to you if you do not have a memory stick.
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Is this an offence?
Ragtaggeorge replied to thekat1979's topic in Residential and Commercial lettings/Freehold issues
You are an adult presumably and any comments by me are purely conversational. I have had the threats from landlords by proxy when a renter in the past. Mostly just bluster. Try telling your immediate neighbours all about it. Ask the police if they can include you in their regular patrols and give you a knock when passing just to keep them visible. Have an escape route rehearsed just in case. Get back to the council and point out that you might need to flee the premises if directly physically attacked. You are entitled to defend yourself if anyone breaks in as happened to me. If you happen to be chopping vegetables at the time no problem. They do not know how much sight you have... It might scare them off it worked for me. I hope it will come to nothing, keep talking if you find yourself confronted and can not make an exit. If you live locally I can offer some moral support. -
Thankd G d its not Chrimbo any more. Came accross this on another thread and have used it recently no reply yet. 31.16 Disclosure before proceedings start (1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1. (2) The application must be supported by evidence. (3) The court may make an order under this rule only where – (a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings; (b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings; © if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and (d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to – (i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings; (ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or (iii) save costs.
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You could just send another CCA out to Moorcroft.
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Claiming bank charges from Barclays. hardship
Ragtaggeorge replied to Ragtaggeorge's topic in Barclays Bank
Thanks again slick. Rich in time so a trip to the court would be fun and give my mind something to work on, bring it on barclays -
Cool, thanks again dude
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Thanks, should I copy to the Barclays registered address as the RMA address is a PO # also. Yes, Recorded delivery, which I have checked via the Royal Mail website.
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