I thought that as the debt has been passed onto them by RBS I would have to SAR them and RBS to ensure that I recieved all relevant paperwork. If I dont have to then I'll ask them to send my £10 back.

Wow what a thread LP you are a star to have given frettful so much advice and support.

Hope it all goes well for you frettful:D

Thx for the replies and suggestions. I have just wrote a letter back to moorcroft explaining that I wont be sending any documentation and if they dont belive that I am me then why the heck are they asking me to pay this money.

Dont worry angry cat I would not have EVER sent original documents.

I sent a SAR and I've just received a letter back from Moorcroft saying that they as Data controller do not have to comply with the request under section 7 (3) of the Data Protection Act 1998 until they are supplied with and I quote, "such information as they may reasonably require in order to satisfy themselves as to the identity of the person making the request."

They have asked that I send them a copy of my drivers licence, passport, rent book or a recent utility bill.

Do I really need to provide such personal information to them? I would have thought that by sending demands for an alleged debt they should already know if its me or not!

just as a an update they never did get back in touch so maybe they have realised the error of their ways and wrote the debt off.

Or perhaps its sat waiting to be passed onto to another DCA...we'll have to wait and see.

any more thoughts on how to proceed? Is there anything I can do or is this all above board and legal?

sorry a little confused now but its late and the wine has taken effect,

so they got the details wrong which makes the NOA invalid but when they have this pointed out they can amend the NOA to what fits now!!!

I can pay the OC but what if they dont exsist and no one has given me proof that the people I am paying actually own the debt? what would I do if NHL suddenly tell me I haven't been paying them as per the tomlin order do I refer to incorrect, inadmissable, unlawful paperwork as my defence?

HELP I need to know if I should continue paying the apparatent new owner of the debt or begin a fight.....

bump .... I could really do with some help pls

I could do with some advice with regards to the above, the story goes like this:

Mortgage was with National Home Loans who repossessed the house and then when sold took us to court for the shortfall of £5084.85. The judge awarded a tomlin order and payments have been maintained at the agreed amount of £5 per month ever since.

In November 2007 we received an NOA fron a company called Asset Recoveries who said they were acting on behalf of a Phoenix Recoveries who now owed the debt from NHL. They were then stating the debt amount on the NOA as £6889.52 which was strange considering that £5 per month had been paid for over six years.

After many letters the last from me in Feb this year I have received an amended / revised NOA for a different amount again but not the amount that they say we actually owe!!

My questions are:

1. We have never received an NOA from NHL stating that the debt had been transferred to Phoenix Recoveries. Should we have done or as their solicitors state they had no legal requirement to do so.

2. As the amount on the original NOA is incorrect does this render the NOA unlawful and therefore unenforceable?

3. Can they have they appear to think they can issue a revised or amended NOA (which still has an incorrect amount due) or is this unlawful and therefore unenforceable?

4. If these NOA's are not enforceable then can I stop payments and if I do how will this effect the tomlin order?

would love to be able to tell these barstuards to get lost after 18 years thx

reply to asset feb 09.doc

subbing could be of interest

subbing

Guess I'll just send the letter and see what happens

hi

I would write back saying that they are welcome to try and take you to court for a debt that they haven't proven dispite you requesting they provide you with unrefutable evidence. Inform them that should they take such action you would put in a counter claim based on this lack of evidence. I'd also check my credit file to see if they have registered a default against you for the debt.

bumping as I really would like some comments to make sure if I've covered all bases

Hi butch,

I would send a bogoff letter to lowlife as they are unable to provide proof you actually own the debt they shouldn't be processing your data or issuing defaults demand they remove them immediately (you'll probabaly get back a standard letter saying they think the informations being processed correctly) You will no doubt have to send more letters threatening legal action.

Robbers way - try to post the agreement (minus personal details to site and someone with more knowledge than me will I'm sure offer their opinion and advice.

Wescott - send the prove it letter - its up to them to prove you owe this money not up to you to prove you dont.

Hope this helps a little

I suspect you could put all the brain cells of all lowlifes employees on a single grain of rice and still have room for all the other DCA's:D

Hi, If you want to contact creditors my advice would be to get an up to date credit report from the refernce agencies as this will show who (if anyone has issued defaults against you and give their details. A word of caution tho once you give your current address to the CRA's they will pass it on to all and sundry so expect a deluge. Once you know who is chasing you and how much they say you owe, then come back and ask for further help.

subbing - the case could be very useful to quote

Well I guess I knew it was just too good to be true. The Leeds Losers just can't follow the rules can they. After sending me such a nice letter to say the account was close and they wouldn't be contacting me again I wrote back (very politey) and told them to remove the default. What did I get back.........a letter that just takes the biscuit and the bloody crumbs.

Firstly they daft buggers quote a totally different account reference and tell me that they have never recieved a CCA request (that's because I haven't sent one yet on this a/c you mindless morons) and thats why it hadn't been processed!!!!!

Then they say they have duly noted my comments concerning section 10 but that as the debt was purchased by Lowell Portfolio from Lloyds !!!! This debt is from the Co-op!!! That a NOA has been sent in writing (not got one) and therefore they wont be removing the default as the information is being held correctly :-x My reply is below:

Dear M/s Swallow,

I am in receipt of your letter dated 00/00/09 and am to say the least very confused. Your letter is referenced to account 1 ******** which to date I have not entered into any correspondence with you regarding this account. Your letter then goes on to mention reference 2********* on which action has been suspended until such time as proof of the alleged debt can be proven. The second paragraph actually relates to reference 2******** but doesn’t state which account to which it refers and which I wrote to you about on the 00/00/09.

I trust you are able to understand why therefore I was in a state of confusion and why it took so time to actually work out what you were referring to.

Unfortunately the response to my request to cease processing my data with regards to account 2********* has not been clarified to my satisfaction. You refer to a notice of assignment regarding this alleged debt dated July 2006 however I have no record of having received such correspondence. In addition the fact that this alleged debt is unenforceable due to the lack of a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8 means that the account is therefore in dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

The document that you were obliged to send me was a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you were also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

I refer you in particular to the last two points which state:

• you may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.
   
   
   
  

I have received a copy of my latest credit report which clearly shows a registered default for this account which as it is under dispute due to lack of an enforceable agreement is clearly in breach of the act.

It is not my duty in law to prove that I do not owe this alleged debt but rather your duty to prove that this alleged debt is owed by myself. Should you be unable to prove this alleged debt as you have already shown by the lack of a lawful notice of assignment and a copy of the agreement then under the Data Protection Act 1998 you are in breach of your responsibilities by failing to comply with my lawful request to cease the processing of my data and the sharing of it with third parties.

You are choosing to ignore your obligations under the CCA 1974 regarding accounts in dispute and all other guidelines dictating procedure. To continue to follow this path will leave me with no alternative but to issue proceedings against you.

I hope this clarifies my position and look forward to your response in writing.

What did I get back???? A nice letter from my friend Sam Swallows....Nope I got a response from Glenis Glover at ......Red!!!!

Now who told them about my letter?

I intend to respond with the following letter but would really appricate it if more expirenced people would pick it apart. I fully intend to start action against them if I dont get the default removed but want to make sure I haven't dropped any clangers or given them anything to use against me.

Dear M/s Glover,

I am in receipt of your letter dated 00/00/09 in which you offer your apologies for the confusion caused by your letter of the 00th ****** 2009.

Firstly the letter thus dated was from M/s Samantha Swallow of the Lowell group and it was to her that my reply dated the 00/00/09 was addressed and sent to. Why then I ask has a reply to this letter been sent from Red debt collections, has my letter been passed to you by the afore mentioned M/s Swallow?

Secondly you confirm that you have contacted your client Co-operative bank and confirm that your files are now closed and the account returned to them. I seek clarification as to how the Co-operative bank can be as you state; your client when in a letter dated 15/10/08 from a Karen Williams of Red debt collections you state that your client is Lowell Portfolio 1 ltd who have previously purchased this alleged debt from the Co-operative bank; do you have two clients?

Perhaps you could also clarify why I would be pursued by both yourselves and Lowell financial at the same time.

Additionally I seek clarification as to how this account has been returned to the Co-operative bank by yourselves when as you have stated it is now owned by Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd. If this alleged debt has, as you have previously stated been purchased by Lowell Portfolio 1 ltd and this sale was lawful then Lowell Portfolio have taken on the role and responsibilities of the data controller. In this instance I therefore demand to know why Lowell Portfolio have registered a default against me with a credit reference agency for an alleged debt that cannot be proven to be owed by myself and to date I have yet to receive any response to my request to cease processing my data with regards to the above account reference.

If however I am incorrect in my understanding and indeed yourself , Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd or Lowell financial do not legally own this alleged debt and that it has not at any time been sold and therefore a lawful absolute assignment been deem to be in place and the alleged debt is infact wholly owned by the original creditor Co-operative bank. Then I demand to know why again a default has been registered against me by Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd.

Both of these scenarios have possible legal consequences the nature of which I’m sure you are aware of.

I have now written letters of complaint to OFT , trading standards and my local MP and hereby give notice that unless I receive written confirmation within the next 14 days that the processing of my data by yourselves and other third parties will cease along with the removal of the default with any credit reference agency I will commence legal proceedings against any and all parties involved.

All suggestions for improvements, changes or just general advice will as always be much appreciated.

wouldn't expect them to go away so easily - I'd keep a check on your credit file just in case they register a default anyway.

Hi Neil you might try sending something along these lines. If you look around the site you will find lots of letters & there's always the template section.

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

Finally I would also ask that in accordance with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act

my preferred method of contact is by letter and would ask that you confirm your agreement to this.

I/we look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

good luck

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1991341

Just a thought SF you might want to take note of what TLD posted on another thread.

Quote: "It's old information, they can post them anyway they like but in order to be deemed served in the absence of any other proof they must be sent recorded.

Basically a Court would take the proof of postage as proof the document was sent. There is still the problem that it would be classed as served (not just deemed to be served) in the event you admit having received one".(I know that you dont actually say in the draft letter you did recieve the NOA but just be careful that you haven't mentioned it in any other letters.)

"The approach is to put the DCa to proof the document was served and that can only be done with proof of recorded/registered delivery and we all know they just never do that don't we?

If the DCA cannot prove the document was served in accordance with Sec196 an absolute assignment under statute is invalid".

I'm sure that you are aware of the above but just in case..

in true CAGer style I'm doing the best I can.

nice to know you're still alive & kicking LOL

As for robbers way some of us are still fighting although I think I might have them on the run so to speak.

Hope the snow in staly vegas didn't get you down...I've been drivin round with a spade and box of grit in the boot just to make sure I could get home. God forbid I would stuck at work.

Hi gypsy

I still think that you may have a case due the fact that the assignment didn't become valid until the 9th of Feb 2009 as per the copy of the fax and that as lowell had issued a default notice prior to this (2007) when they were in fact not the Data Controller (this still being OC ) Then lowells & OC have broke the rule of the Data protection act.

Frankley this needs claryfying by more knowledgeable folks as a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say and I definately only have a little knowledge.

Pls can someone with the required expertise add thier comments