look at post 71 for a copy also post 98 i was advised at the time that this was termination Also post 106 shows the agreement they sent as part of SAR

No default was sent and no note made on file either as i found out from my SAR also does acount cloesd and demand for full amount not termination they were not giving me any chance to make payments due in the future So is this not in breach of S87 and they are not entitled to benifit from the next stage ie enforcement

This is the letter clearly states full balance demanded, and account closed so i would not have known how much would have to be paid in default as it wasnt even stated on the final demandhttp://

So PB the only time they couldnt take action was between the 1st termination and the second and this DN and further TN would be valid in court? How about the folling taken from this site "principal of unlawful dn" quote [4] The fiction of the Second DN and the Enduring Obligation The service of any second default notice, at a time when the contract is terminated, owing to the wording of the DN in its prescribed form, would perpetuate the fiction that the contract endured. The same can be said owing to the provisions of section 89 of the Act. The form of words in the DN incorporate text in order to meet the intention of section 89 of the Act which provides: 'If before the date specified for that purpose in the default notice the debtor or hirer takes the action specified under section 88(1)(b) or © the breach shall be treated as not having occurred.' In other words, in serving the second DN, the creditor would be suggesting: [a] an obligation had persisted post termination by which the debtor was bound to make instalment payments (ie post-termination 'arrears'), and that if payment of those 'arrears' was made, an obligation to make future instalment payments would endure. The obligations at [a] are obligations enduring during the currency of the agreement. Besides maintaining the fiction of the enduring agremeent as I say, it seems to me any second DN would be bound to be defective for over-stating the sums due. The creditor can not state as an amount due for 'arrears' of instalments that which he said in consequence of his termination was no longer due and payable by instalments. If the creditor sought to use a form of DN which made sense by getting round the fact the agreement had been terminated, the DN would not be in prescribed form. The only way in which a second DN would be of value to the creditor would be where the contract had been re-instated. If the debtor has accepted the termination, re-instatement requires the consent of the debtor. The net result of [1] to [4] is the agreement is terminated for all time. The creditor's remedy is now limited by section 87(1). All that is left for the creditor to recover is the sum truly in arrear at the date of the default notice.

Having read through the last few days of this thread it seems that things are changing. I am alittle confused now tho In my case the creditor terminated without a DN evidenced by the log i recived as part of my SAR then went on to issue a dn and termination all properlly issued. also when the next threat o gram arrived i wrote and pointed all this out, the y wrote back and said "sorry is was not appropriate to terminate without a Dn first time so we did it again and thats ok!! we will proceed with collection" So with all thats gone on Do i still have a defence in anyone opinion?? Im sure i do but the way things have gone who knows!!

Thanks underdog I still have the termination with no dn and the issue of one later then a further termination , to go with but i have heard on here that maybe that is nt a good enough defence anymore by the way have have you got on with tsb????

Is there no one able to help?

HI Again perhaps someone could advise .. Got a letter from Cabot today with a ref no but no information as to the amount of debt or the creditor, It could only be tsb as that is the only one im fighting , giving a date and time someone will call. I have writen back saying i have not made ant appointment with a finacial company and do not require any products from them so dont come because there will be no one here autherised or able to discuss my finances !! Bit of cheek from me but as they havent identified why they will visit how do i know . Now ive not recieved any paperwork from tsb telling me the debt has be sold or passed on Does this have to be done before cabot have "right of action "??? PLEASE COULD SOMEONE POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION NOW I THINK COURT ACTION MIGHT BE CLOSE

Hi all I now have the same problem i have an account that was terminated with no DN, which i accepted and this was then folled by a DN and another termination. All the advice so far has been that a terminated account is just that, and if the creditor then tries to rectify by further issuind a dn and tn then this is not allowed.the wording of the act ould suggest this is the case. although the creditor has not started action , even tho ive made no payments since sept 2008, i keep getting threat o grams but if they do issue a claim i need to also know if the defence is valid!

can anyone comment on this??

I have just read that If a default is not valid or not issued the termination is not valid and they can rectify by issuing a default and termination that is!! If this is the case i have no defence if ltsb issue a claim :?:

HI Martin 3030 It started just before my first post on here around sept 2008. when i first read through this site and realised i may not have a enforcable agreement and its all gone from there no payments have been made since then ......... hope that answers your question Why the question???

Bump

Anyone around ?

Hi all its been a while but TSB wrote to say that their agents were unable to bully me to pay so they sent the account back for legal action. i wrote and pointed out that the account was terminated and enclosed my accknowlegement and the legal references from here i could find Today i got the attached reply think they have put themselves into a corner perhaps im wrong coments please http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo194/jayjay1105_2008/21-05-2010151344.jpg

Thank you DD for outlining so clearly what may happen So it looks quite good that i may win this one I will keep my resolve throughout and post up any further progress hopefully very helpful members on here will guide me through what transpires Thanks

sounds too easy I have read up on the principals of faulty dn's and resession of contract but how much of a 'bang' do i get and what is my next move!!! or what do i expect to happen next

Here is a copy of the text of that letter dated 26th Jan Dear sirs Further to my letter of 17th December 2008 asking for disclosure under The data protection act, and fee of £10. I note that no reply has been received to date and was surprised to receive a letter from you dated 21st January making a demand for the full balance and termination of the alleged contract , whilst this account remains in dispute. Although I accept your termination of the account, on taking advise, I believe this is not lawful, and would ask for your compliance with the Subject Access Request dated 17th December 2008 in addition to my requests for a true copy of a properly executed agreement. I look forward to your reply. They then sent the incomplete sar on 30th Jan maybe in responce to the above ..

ok i'll look that copy out i have them all in a file. On their log they have a letter symbol to show letters sent /recieved. i sent on 26th there is one howing on 29th , must be when they received it

Ive checked again there is no ref to a DN before the first term letter the first demand letter is listed as is the dn and demand in June

Hi DD the first demand is at post 71 and then dn at post 98 then an identical demand sent in may Here is the letter that came in with the statements http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo194/jayjay1105_2008/07-01-2010131521.jpg[/img]]

Thanks for getting back ... ive had a look through and they have sent a copy of the same appliation form and the t&c's (with ref to other sections not in the document) stapled to it!! but if im correct in thinking the most important front to get them on is the dn tn point now there log shows the letter they term as formal demand sols issued in Jan 09 and then dn issued in june and another formal demand sols later in June There is nothing showing a dn prior to the demand in jan only a letter in with statements that says they are obliged under cca 1974 to sent the letter due to missed payments this NOTHING like a proper dn so nt if they do call it so its def faulty Am i right to asume the dn tn front is best to challange them on ??? if so i write and point out or just wait to see if they issue a claim???

Is no one arround???

Bump

Hi I hope all of you had a happy and peaceful christmas .. I have now recieved my SAR from ltsb Could someone now help me as to what information i am looking for in it. The pack contains: call log back from 13/01/09 to oct 09 when assigned to allied memoline transcripts guide to credit scoring uptodate statement + payments made from aug 2008 - june 09 statements from jan 04 to may 09 card holder guide to A395 report !! screen shots of address info, employment, ect and other sheets with various details of name on card allon works excell sheets