I'm only £35K in debt with no chance of ever paying it back and feel like topping myself on a regular basis ..... But this poor guy must have been ripped apart inside. It's disgusting what these scumbags do to people

Not sure if this is the right location for this thread, but please move if need be. After neearly two years of letters and complaints to Barclays and the FOS I finally have some good news. The missold PPI on my Barclayloan has been returned. The remaining amount removed from te outstanding loan and all the payments I made returned to me with 8% interest (total nearly £1.5K). ALSO, the missold PPI on my overdraft has been returned too! 15 years of little payments when ever I went overdrawn soon add up and with 8% on top Barclays have repaid me nearly £2K!! If anyone has overdraft protection (basically PPI under another name) that they didn't ask for I suggest you reclaim it. I was forced to take out as part of the overdraft agreement, so totally mis-sold. Now all I need to do is work out how I'm gonna pay the actual loan! Thank you CAG

Hi Redfish, No, I got it from a SARs request. My CCA requests (many of them) have only ever turned up unsigned T&Cs. This has been going on for a while. I have other threads on here too. Main one here:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162487-hello-newbie-need-lots.html

Can I have your opinions on what you would do here? I never signed an actual credit agreement, just the AF. But the FOS want a response and I don't know what to do for the best. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/245250-cca-1974-2006-updates.html#post2841184 cheers, samcam

So, once a year all they have to do is send you a letter reminding you of the debt and the 6 year clock restarts? What's the point of that!?

OK. I wrote to the FOS again say that this wasn't a credit agreement and it wasn't enforceable, blah, blah. They just wrote back saying yes it is and also, even if it wasn't, they take the view that "you borrowed the money, now you have to pay it back". They're not interested in paperwork or little things like "the Law". They contacted Barclaycard and made an offer on my behalf even though I specifically told them I didn't want to make any offer of payment to them! BUT .... Barclaycard have agreed to let me pay £1 a month for 6 months with no interests added. Then if I go through a debt counselling service they may accept minimal payments. They will also pay back the PPI plus 8% on the card as they accept this was missold. The card debt is currently about £12K PPI payback will be about £1.5K They have no signed credit agreement (because I never signed one - only the application form) and my wife and I are on low income and have no way of paying this back..... SO WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO!? Would really appreciate some opinions. My biggest concern is that the courts suddenly start taking the moral high ground and start making people pay back debts/say they're enforceable, even without the correct paperwork. Hope to hear from you all soon, SamCam

I have a complaint about the FOS. They are not interested in anything we say!! They sent me a copy of an application form that Barclaycard had sent them. I wrote back saying "sorry, this is an application form, not a credit agreement". Their response was "it has Credit Agreement written on it, so it must be a Credit agreement". They also say they don't care if we have an agreement or not! Plus, they say it's for ME to prove the debt is unenforceable, not for Barclayshark to prove it IS enforceable. They suck! See my threads here. Any advice greatly appreciated:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162487-hello-newbie-need-lots-5.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/245250-cca-1974-2006-updates.html Cheers, SamCam

I sent a letter to FOS stating that this wasn't a credit agreement and was unenforceable. There response was that because it has "credit agreement" written on it that makes it a credit agreement! Also, the FOS don't care if there is a credit agreement or not! Here's there letter:- http://www.campbellphotographic.co.u...etoCCA0001.jpg

I sent a letter to FOS stating that this wasn't a credit agreement and was unenforceable. There response was that because it has "credit agreement" written on it that makes it a credit agreement! Also, the FOS don't care if there is a credit agreement or not! Here's there letter:- http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/FOSresponsetoCCA0001.jpg

Hi Everyone, I've done a lot of reading on here and I'm pretty sure the application form Barclaycard sent me as an "executable agreement" is totally unenforceable .... but would really appreciate your opinions. My thread is here Cheers

Hi supasnooper, This is what I was sent:- http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/application0001.jpg Yes, that's how clear it really is! At the bottom by my signature I think it says "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign only if you want to be bound by its terms". Nothing else is really ledgable and there are certainly no Prescribed Terms or APRs, interest rates, etc. Just because it says "Credit Agreement" by my signature, does that mean they can enforce it?

Hi, Not sure if this is in the right place, but .... I complained to Barclaycard about Harassment, etc. brief details here They ignored me, so sent it on to the FOS. The FOS said sorry apart from the OFT and CCA breaches nothing else in the complaint (i.e. harassment, threats, etc) has anything to do with them. So ... who are we supposed to complain to about harassment and threats, etc?

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but could do with a little clarification. ----------- I had a card with Barclaycard since 2000, which for various reasons I've been unable to pay. BUT .... I never signed a credit agreement with them - only an application form. At the time I took out the card, it would have been regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which we all know has section 127, sub section 3, which basically says "if you never signed a Credit Agreement, there's nothing the Banks can do about the debt and the courts can't help so **** off" .... or words the that effect HOWEVER .... the 2006 version the Consumer Credit Act appears to remove section 127(3), but also says:- The repeal by this Act of— (a) the words “(subject to subsections (3) and (4))” in subsection (1) of section 127 of the 1974 Act, (b) subsections (3) to (5) of that section, and © the words “or 127(3)” in subsection (3) of section 185 of that Act, has no effect in relation to improperly-executed agreements made before the commencement of section 15 of this Act. Does this mean that, because I took out the card BEFORE 2006, I'm still covered by the 1974 Act and Barclayshark can go jump? At this point someone please say "Yes, you're covered, BC can go jump, good luck in court" !! Cheers SamCam

Great, just got back from shopping and we've had a late post. FOS has sent through the sign "credit Agreement" ............ It's a copy of the original Application Form!! HAHA. Not only do I already have a copy of this ... it's completely worthless in terms of enforcement. Yipee!

Well, FOS finally responded to me about my complaint to Barclaycard I sent Barclaycard a complaint which they ignored, so sent it on to the FOS. FOS say, sorry apart from the OFT and CCA breaches nothing else in the complaint (i.e. harassment, threats, etc) has anything to do with them. More worrying is that the guy I spoke to at FOS says Barclaycard have provided him with a signed copy of my credit agreement:!: I don't remember ever signing one and for 2 years I've been trying to get one from Barclaycard simply because I was sure it didn't exist. now apparently it does. BUGGER The FOS are sending me a copy of it. If it's real I'm screwed. With charges and interest my balance is now around £12K. No way I can pay that back. Oh well, Bankruptcy here we come I'll keep you all posted as to what turns up.

Just got the same response from ICO. Claiming that the banks told them 6 years is "industry standard". Not good that the banks are basically now telling the ICO what to say - so what's the point of ICO!?

GREAT, just in time for Xmas - Barclayshark have now passed my account to Wescot, who have given me until 31/12/09 to respond - letter arrived yesterday but was dated 17th!! Round we go again! Merry Christmas everybody!

Thanks guys. Pretty much the answers I was looking for. As my wife and I are both now unemployed we wont agree to a new loan, 'cos we can't! We have no income. That's why we want a settlement figure. We'll beg borrow or steal the cash from family and sell our possesions to get rid of this debt, but want any offer to be as low as possible. I'll let you all know how it goes. Cheers for now.

I took out a Barclayloan in June 2006 for £14K with added PPI of £5K (plus interest!). This was mis-sold (I'm self employed, they basically forced it on me). The FOS have been dealing with this and have agreed I was mis-sold the PPI and Barclays have to make an offer to take it off, etc. BUT ... They have said:- pay the consumer, the amount of the NET payments the consumer will make up to the time of settlement in respect of the PPI (including any interest and charges) by comparing: the payments actually made; the payments which would have applied if the consumer had taken the loan without PPI; and add interest on each of these net payments at the rate of 8% per year SIMPLE from the date of each payment to the date the compensation is paid. This basically means I get back the PPI payments inc. interest I've paid (£1178.10), then an extra 8% as basic compensation. Question: I thought I was entitled to get back the money I'd paid, plus contractural rate interest (in this case 7.9% APR), PLUS 8% compensation? Because that money I'd paid them could have been in a high interest account making me money, or they have used it to make more money on the markets at my expense, etc. Any thoughts? --------------------- Also, Barclays made us an offer a while back (before going to fos) to settle the debt in full for £5K. They deny this and say it was an offer of £8K. Either way, this was before going to FOS and was basd on the full outstanding debt of £17K. Because my wife and I are both now unemployed I've ask that the PPI be removed and a new offer for settlement be made based on the lower amount. But FOS are insisting that I will have to agree to a new loan. Is this right? The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank. Follow this link to read the damning revelations made by an Ombudsman whistleblower.

yes, but I want interest on that money. I could have put it in a savings account! so they should have to pay extra! The 8% is compensation, that doesn't count

OK, FOS have been dealing with my mis-sold PPI on my Barclayloan. They have agreed I was mis-sold the PPI and Barclays have to make an offer to take it off, etc. BUT ... They have said:- pay the consumer, the amount of the NET payments the consumer will make up to the time of settlement in respect of the PPI (including any interest and charges) by comparing: the payments actually made; the payments which would have applied if the consumer had taken the loan without PPI; and add interest on each of these net payments at the rate of 8% per year SIMPLE from the date of each payment to the date the compensation is paid. Question: I thought I was entitled to get back the money I'd paid, plus contractural rate interest (in this case 7.9% APR), PLUS 8% compensation? Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, even given this information, Barclaycard will still simpy ignore you. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/169837-ppi-claim-interest-barclaycard.html I had the standard response from BC and contacted the ICO directly. Even after I confronted BC with ICO response stating that their records DO form part of a relevant filing system they simply send the same letter saying it doesn't. I've made an official complaint to the ICO now about this, but don't know what it will change.

Hi All, OK. Complaint about Barclayshark ignoring my Formal Complaint is now with the FOS .... PPI claim on Barclayloan is now with the FOS ... PPI claim on my overdraft is sent to Barclays ... will end up going to FOS when Barclays do nothing as usual. As to getting my signed CCA from Barclayshark I think I may have shot myself in the foot. I sent this letter:- Dear Sirs, Credit Agreement for Card Number: 4xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx I refer to the above matter and your failure to supply a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement. Your recent letter dated 05/05/09 clearly states that you believe a blank, unsigned copy of some Terms & Conditions constitutes an “executed agreement”. While blank T&Cs may meet the criteria for satisfying a request under section 78 and a SARs request doesn’t produce any better results, you have still yet to prove to my satisfaction that the alleged debt is in fact legally enforceable. We appear to be at loggerheads in this matter and, as previously communicated, you must realise that the blank T&C’s you keep sending to me do not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under section 65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms and my signature means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under section 127(3). It was the intention of the act that where a creditor failed, for WHATEVER reason, to get the documentation correct, that any monies or goods would be forfeited by the creditor as a gift and I quote:- 1. In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said, at page 1131:- “Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.” 2. Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor in Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633 said at para 26 that in the case of an unenforceable agreement:- “The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;” also:- I refer to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 "[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said: "33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. and finally I quote the author of the consumer credit act:- As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on*Wilson v First County Trust Ltd*[2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed. 167*Justice of the Peace*(2003) 773. Therefore I consider it to still be in dispute and unenforceable at law. The original, properly executed, credit agreement is the document that you would need to produce in support of any county court action against me and the same document that I would make a court application for you to produce if you failed to respond to such a request under a CPR31.16 prior to my seeking to commence proceedings against yourselves. It would therefore seem to me to be entirely in line with the overriding principles of the CPR for us to make every attempt to settle matters outside the court system. In furtherance of this objective I would therefore suggest that this matter can be disposed of without further delay by you allowing me to inspect the original, properly executed, credit agreement. Thus the matter can be resolved one way or the other. Normal convention requires that any such document is inspected in situ. I am prepared to travel a reasonable distance to inspect this document. Alternatively I am prepared to pay the reasonable costs of having this document couriered to the local branch of Barclays Bank (Braintree) for me to inspect it there. I can think of no valid reason, if it is indeed your sincere desire to have this matter dealt with without further delay, why you should not accede to this request, since clearly if you satisfy me that you do have a properly executed and legally enforceable agreement then I can immediately enter into discussions with you with regard to discharging the alleged debt; which is surely what you are trying to achieve! If, however, it is the case that you do not possess a properly executed agreement, then it would be the better for all concerned for you to admit to this fact now. We may then be able to negotiate a mutually acceptable outcome and move forward. Yours faithfully ------------------------------------------------------------------------ They just wrote back saying they have supplied documents as required under S78 and gave pretty much the same legal statements as in post #36 on page 2 of this thread:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1879350.html With an added section about S60 which just confused me. They seem to be trying to say that by signing an application form I've signed a credit agreement!?? Full letter here:- http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/barclaycard0004.jpg Now here's where I think I made a mistake. I wrote back stating that I am NOT arguing that they have not complied with S78 - I agreed that yes they supplied a blank T&C under the flawed S78, but since I never signed a CCA the alleged debt is unenforceable:- Dear Sirs, Credit Agreement for Card Number: 4xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx Thank you for your letter dated 31/07/09. It is abundantly clear from the content of your letter that you have completely failed to read and understand my last few letters. Yes, you have used the loophole in section 78 of the CCA to satisfy a request and have sent me a blank copy of some T&C’s. And while this meets the criteria for satisfying a request under section 78, I would point out that my last few letters were NOT requests under S78. I DO NOT dispute your compliance under the flawed section 78. I do however dispute that you are legally entitled to enforce this alleged debt at all, because I have no recollection of ever signing a credit agreement with you for this card. I completed an application form in branch, was mis-sold Payments Protection Insurance on it (but that’s another story) and a few weeks later my card arrived in the post. But at no time was I ever asked to sign anything else. I have never even been shown a credit agreement except for the blank T&C’s you keep sending me now, let alone ever been asked to sign one. You failed to complete the correct processes and paperworks required for the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This act is there to protect both you and consumers (i.e. me). As previously communicated to you:- It was the intention of the act that where a creditor failed, for WHATEVER reason, to get the documentation correct, that any monies or goods would be forfeited by the creditor as a gift and I quote:- 1. In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said, at page 1131:- “Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.” 2. Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor in Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633 said at para 26 that in the case of an unenforceable agreement:- “The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;” and I quote the author of the consumer credit act:- As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on*Wilson v First County Trust Ltd*[2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed. 167*Justice of the Peace*(2003) 773. I never signed a credit agreement. Therefore you failed to get the minimum required paperwork correct and consequently, as stated above, any monies are forfeit. I dispute that you are legally entitled to enforce this alleged debt and until you prove otherwise I shall consider this to be the case. Regardless of how many times you tell me you “do not class the account as in dispute”, I DO consider it to be in dispute for the above reasons. Therefore it is in dispute. Hence the term “in dispute”. It is not a one sided thing controlled solely by you. If one or more parties involved in a situation “dispute” something about it then it is “in dispute” until the situation is resolved and agreed that it is resolved by ALL parties (or until such time as an outside third party, such as a court, declares it resolved one way or another). However, if you believe that you do indeed hold proof that I did sign a credit agreement and that this alleged debt is legally enforceable, I would again suggest, as I have done on several previous occasions, that this matter can be disposed of without further delay by you allowing me to inspect the signed document. Thus the matter can be resolved one way or the other without the need to involve the courts and wasting their valuable time and money. Normal convention requires that any such document is inspected in situ. I am prepared to travel a reasonable distance to inspect this document. Alternatively I am prepared to pay the reasonable costs of having this document couriered to the local branch of Barclays Bank (Braintree) for me to inspect it there. I can think of no valid reason, if it is indeed your sincere desire to have this matter dealt with without further delay, why you should not accede to this request, since clearly if you satisfy me that you do have a properly executed and legally enforceable agreement then I can immediately enter into discussions with you with regard to discharging the alleged debt; which is surely what you are trying to achieve! The only reason for this continued charade of letters and threats of court action is because you do not hold a signed credit agreement, knowing as you do that one doesn’t exist (because I never signed one). I therefore believe it would be the better for all concerned for you to admit to this fact now. We may then be able to negotiate a mutually acceptable outcome and move forward. Yours faithfully ----------------------------------------------- Was this a mistake??? I got a letter back from them today saying that I had said they HADn't complied with S78?? http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/barclaycard0005.jpg Obviously they hadn't properly read my last letter, but have I shot myself in the foot saying I agree they've complied with S78? It's obvious they don't have a CCA - especially since I don't remember signing one - otherwise they wouldn't go through all this crap. I've tried reading through the post about using CPR31.16 and it just makes my head hurt. And being unemployed I can't afford laywers, etc to go to court. What should I do next?

What about overdrafts? I have PPI on my overdraft with barclays which was forced on me - to have an overdraft with them you automatically have to start paying their "Overdraft Protection Insurance" - which is basically PPI. It's a condition of the overdraft.

I'll try to jump on these in the next week or so and will keep you all updated as/if it progresses. Just so busy at the moment, this is all just another set of things on my ever growing "To Do" list .....