Hi Laura I've been looking in to this myself as I'm looking to take my ex-landlord to court over various issues but am worried about enforcing the judgement if I win. I understand you can apply to the court for an Order to obtain information to get bank account details. Apparently one problem with a third party debt order is that if the landlord is overdrawn when you get the order the bank doesn't actually owe them any money so you can't claim. I'm not an expert in this so don't take it as gospel. I read somehwere that if the landlord has a new tenant in the property it may be possible to 'use' (if that's the right word) the tenant as the 3rd party who owes the landlord money. Unfortunately I can't find the place I read this originally so I'm not sure if it was from a reliable source. Perhaps one of the more experienced posters on here might know? If this is allowed I imagine it would be quite easy to find out the name of the new tenants particularly if you're on good terms with your old neighbours and you already know their address. Good luck! Chris

I'm not sure why you can't do as Snookerz suggested and change the lock barrel. It only costs a couple of quid for a new one and it'd keep them out unless they give you notice.

Hi TonyNZ I'd recommend you do as much as possible in writing from now on. I moved out of a flat on Christmas Eve where I had a similar situation e.g. landlord telling the letting agent to give prospective buyers (that she'd found herself) the keys so they could 'let themseelves in and have a look around' without the letting/estate agent charging comission! I'm currently writing a letter before action as she's being very difficult and claiming £150 of the deposit but refusing to tell the tenancy deposit scheme how much is in dispute as she is upset she may be reposessed due to me 'being difficult.' It's useful in this situation being able to refer back to specific letters. Good luck! Chris

Hi Laura It seems harder to deal with alleged mobile phone debts than other things as they're not covered by the consumer credit act so it's harder to get proof of anything. I've had success and hopefully helped a friend out by sending subject access requests to Three. In our cases they sent the call logs through which had a record of us cancelling the contracts / giving notice in both our cases. They'd previously appeared to deny having any record that either of us had cancelled. Quite a coincidence and I wouldn't be suprised if this was common practice in the industry. Strangely phones4u had no record of anything to do with me at all. Despite me taking the orignal contract out in their shop (5 years ago) and filling in all my details on their pc when buying a payg phone in their shop 6 months before the SAR. Very careless... Interestingly Three's response to the SAR appeared to miss out a lot of other useful information such as as any details of the original contract and any mention of them asking a credit reference agency to delete the record of my account being satisfied with no missed payments! Luckily I can prove they did this. This means I don't entirely trust them to send through all the information but what I did get helped me and was enough to get them to accept I didn't owe them money. Carphone Warehouse are a different company and it will cost you £10 but it might bring up something useful so it could be worth a try.

I believe they *should* put their full company name and registered office on any official correspondance. It's often in very small text at the bottom of the page. Hopefully someone on here who is more knowledgable can confirm this.

It's well worth sending 3g a subject access request asking for everything they have. Lowells and 3G wanted £200ish for a phone I'd returned as unfit for purpose 10 days after starting a contract in 2003. 3G's call log had a summary of each call I'd made to them back then and in one of them their cs monkey admitted I'd returned the phone within the 14 day money back guarantee period. All nicely printed out from their database as part of their response to my SAR! It still took a while to sort out but after an LBA to their chief executive they finally admitted it in writing. Pointing out in my letter that the evidence they'd given me was probably enough to meet the burden of proof to convict them of fraud or obtaining money transfers by deception in a criminal case let alone lose any civil case against me may have concentrated their minds somewhat...

If the main place of business for a finance company is a terrace house I guess they should be paying paying business rates there. Is there any way we can suggest to the local council they might want to check this out and ask a few tricky questions?

Nice one guys. Glad you got a good result!

Thanks Steve we'll give that a try

I've just got rid of Three / Lowells after 10 months, they claimed they knew nothing about me cancelling within the 14 days money back guarantee. They also claimed my flatmate hadn't given notice on her contract. It's probably worth sending a Subect Access Request. We did and from the information we got back it appears they don't keep any letters you send but in both our cases the telephone log confirmed the dates we had cancelled. Three's executive office agreed that this was sufficient proof in my case and hopefully will for my flatmate as well. If not it should be sufficient in court.

I'd just like to thank everyone on this forum for all the advice on here. Thanks to you guys I've finally managed to get 3 mobile to accept I don't owe them money and they have agreed to call off Lowells. I didn't post much on here as one of their first replies to me contained information that I had only posted on here but the information in other people's threads was invaluable. They'll be a donation on pay day

Hi there I'm afraid this is a bit of a long story as I thought it best to give all the details. I've been helping a friend to try to get her deposit and one week's rent back from her landlord. She rented a flat on an AST since May 2004 so sadly the deposit is not in the TDS. I've uploaded a copy of the tenancy agreement here Pictures by lynchthelandlord - Photobucket The landlady will only deal with my friend through her son who has been very difficult to contact and eventually told her on the phone on 21st April: “I am loath to return your deposit as the decorator says the flat is a mess.” The decorator had visited to survey the flat and see what needed doing while she was still a tenant and packing up to leave so it's not unreasonable that the flat was full of boxes of her stuff. She sent a LBA that I prepared Pictures by lynchthelandlord - Photobucket 21st April to the landlady and her son requesting the deposit and the week's overpaid rent back for any amount not in dispute and requesting reasons for any deductions. Today she received a 'without prejudice' reply from the son giving his reasons. I've attached a link to the letter here Sonsletter001.jpg picture by lynchthelandlord - Photobucket . These are his arguments and my thoughts on them below. I'd appreciate any opinions you have on these: -The keys were not returned to him so he wasn't sure whether or not she had left the property. He claims that “In law you are liable for rent until the keys are returned to the landlord.” Apparently the decorator couldn't get in so drilled the lock. The first he knew of it was when the decorator tried to gain access so he hadn't tried to re-let the flat before this. The son was unwilling to meet to inspect the flat and take the keys personally. She left about a week before the end of the tenancy so presumably would have been liable for any damage if someone had taken the keys from the communal area of the flat and damaged the property / squatted etc. The landlady's son made himself very difficult to contact and she did not have an address for him that she could send the keys to. When the son phoned her she offered to return the keys later the same day. He is claiming rent until the 27th of April (about 2 months). He only found out he didn't have the key on this date so had clearly made no effort to rent the property beforehand. Presumably he would have a duty to mitigate his loss by calling a locksmith (or in this case the getting the decorator to drill the lock) otherwise he could continue charging rent for years. I think that at worst the only costs he should be able to deduct is the cost of gaining access and fitting a new lock. Any thoughts? Additionally the Office of Fair Trading guidance says this would be an unfair term. Is this something we can rely on in court? -The flat was not in the clean condition in which she found it and additionally she kept a cat during the tenancy which was against the terms of the agreement. The flat was in definitely not professionally cleaned when she moved in and was as clean when she left (other than almost 5 years of fair wear and tear). The flat has not been cleaned yet but is being redecorated. Do you know if charging to have it cleaned after redecoration would count as betterment? Regarding the cat: She looked after her parent's cat for one day over 2½ years ago (the cat has been dead for 2 years). Unfortunately the landlady's son phoned up demanding to inspect the property immediately that day as he was in the area. The OFT guidelines suggest a clause banning all pets would be considered unfair. The exact wording of the clause is “No animals or children permitted”. I imagine this is unenforcable especially as it bans children. Any thoughts? The landlady has happily continued the tenancy (sending a letter to increase the rent every so often) ever since and appears to have suffered no material loss so I can't see why he can deduct anything from the deposit for this. -He hasn't received any final receipted bills for utilities and council tax. This is not mentioned in the tenancy agreement and again the OFT regard this as an unfair term. As my friend is liable for the bills I can't see how he has suffered any material loss and has any reason for withholding money from the deposit. He estimates the cost of cleaning and gaining entry to the flat at £200 and the extra rent due at £943.83. If my arguments above are correct I think the maximum he could deduct is the £200 (which I would dispute anyway) and probably just the cost of gaining entry which would be about £80 for a locksmith around here. I'm not sure what her next step is. His letter is “Without Prejudice” so we can't easily counter his arguments in court. If you guys think my arguments above are reasonable I guess she has two options: a) Write a letter countering his arguments with the reasons I gave above. Assuming he doesn't dispute the quotes about what he said I guess we could then use this letter to show his arguments in court. b) Issue a claim anyway against the landlady and hope she puts the same reasons in his defence. Which of these do you think is the best way forward or have you got a better idea? Sadly friendly negotiation won't work. Many thanks if you've read this all the way to the end!

He 'sued' 76,000 debtors in a year? A 40 hour week works about about 2000 hours a year which is less than 2 minutes per debtor. I wonder how many monkeys he has under him!

Thanks guys, I'll definitely take a reading next time I hear of a price increase.

I have been with NPower since last August and have been making a regular payment by direct debit. I was checking the bill today and there was a price rise during the period I'm being charged for. They estimated a very low reading on the day of the price change which means they assumed I used almost 3 times as much gas per day after the price rise as before. This will cost me about £35 more than if they assumed I used the same amount of gas per day over the whole period of the bill. They started supplying me on 16/07/08, the price increased on 28/08/08 and they estimated a reading at this point and didn't actually read the meter until 15/11/08. In total I used 2967kWh in 122 days = 24.3kWh/day Between 16/07/08 and 28/08/08 (start of supply to price rise) they assumed: 505 kWh used in 43 days = 11.4kWh/day Between 28/08/08 and 15/11/08 (price rise to actual meter reading) they assumed: 2462 kWh used in 79 day = 31.2kWh/day I accept that I use slightly more gas in the autumn than the summer but are they allowed to fiddle the figures like this to increase their profit? If not what's the best thing to do about it? Many thanks Chris

Thanks for all the info, I think this will really help

Deleted

Thanks Scott - not sure how I missed those! Chris

In August I sent a Subject Access Request to Phones 4 U, the Royal Mail website shows it is delivered and it appears the cheque was cashed but I have received no acknowledgement from them. I guess now I should send a letter before action - is this right or is there anything else I should do first? Also is there a template anywhere for this LBA? I couldn't find one. Thanks Chris

Thanks, I've got a valid reason and plenty of evidence to back it up but I wasn't sure if I had to send a letter to the original creditor using the wording 'in dispute' (rather than just letters stating they were wrong with explanations). I'm looking into reporting a DCA to trading standards for trying to collect a debt they know is in dispute.

I'm confused as to what is necessary for a debt to be 'in dispute'. If I have been claiming the debt is incorrect for many years is that sufficient or do I have to write to sat that I consider the debt 'in dispute'. Many thanks Chris

That might explain things. I applied for my credit files online to see if there were any defaults due to my run in with 3 mobile/lowells and one CRA showed my "alleged debt" to three as having a couple of payments and then satisfied several years ago which is more or less what I would have expected. Two days (and a couple of SARs delivered) later I downloaded a more recent report and all mention of the credit account with 3 mobile had disappeared. That seems pretty suspicious to me. Strangely no default yet though

Hi there I was with 3 mobile very briefly back in 2003 but returned the phone and cancelled the contract within 14 days. I heard nothing more and my credit report shows it settled but they have now decied to start chasing me for over £250 and passed the debt on to Lowells Portfolio and Red. Among other things I have sent 3 mobile an S.A.R. and they have replied demanding a copy of my passport and a utility bill to prove my identity. Is it ok to send this information to them as i normally wouldn't give a copy of my passport to anyone other than banks? Also on a more cheeky note could I demand the same information about one of the directors of Lowells to prove their identity? It seems only fair as anyone could write a letter demanding money

Hi and thanks for all the information here already! I'm in pretty much the same situation with 3 and Lowells/Red. Back in 2003 I cancelled a contract within 14 days and returned the phone to Phones4u. 3 tried to bill me for the rest of the contract so after getting nowhere on the phone I sent them a letter giving them 28 days to reply and accept that I had returned the phone and cancelled it within the period allowed. They never replied but when I rang to follow up my letter they said they couldn't talk to me as my account had been cancelled. I took that to be the end of the matter. Now I have received a letter from 3 saying they have passed it to Lowells and a letter from Lowells / Red demanding over £250. I have sent off the "prove it" letter to Lowells / Red and S.A.R.s to 3 and Phones4u in the hope they may have kept some records that help. My question is what do I do to end this matter if/when they pass it back to 3? Also I have checked my credit reports there are no defaults (yet!) and the contract with 3 shows 2 payments on time and then the symbol for "settled/satisfied". I presume they must have supplied this information to Equifax so can I use that as evidence that the matter was settled back in 2003? Thanks again Chris