Hi, I am in the position of having cast iron proof that our second charge lender has committed the criminal charge of false accounting on our loan application. They have increased both our salaries by entering the gross salary amounts as net amounts of both of us, and then taken hardly any outgoings of the inflated amounts apart from their loan payment, a buffer payment, and a 1st mortgage payment. This has served to increase our monthly income by over £1000 making the loan look affordable on paper, and resulted in them paying a secret commission to the broker that brokered the deal. There is no info on secret commission at all in their T&Cs. This information has been discovered via a SAR request and the information comes from their internal paperwork. We were unhappy with the lender at the time and we advised them that we thought the loan was unaffordable and that something was not right . We originally signed for a 50k loan in 2006 and then were forced to take a higher loan of 70k as they said it was uncancellable due to the fact it was secured on our property and we had signed a legal charge. We can also show that final loan documents were sent to us before either the broker or lender had any personal or financial documentation from us of any kind, showing that affordability was never able to be considered in the time frame of the loan issuance. The loan application was sent out for the lender with the loan application for the broker in the same letter, and stupidly we signed both of them at the same time thinking the lenders form was just a straight forward application form to be either accepted or refused as they had received no confirmed info at all from us at this time. Both loan applications for 50k and 70k for the lender were sent out within 5 working days of each other putting us under enormous pressure to sign as we were told we could not cancel anyway. We never signed another application form from the broker for the 70k loan. Also the second loan for 70k came with a higher rate of repayment than the first which was not pointed our to us. There are other problems with this loan to do with misrepresentation, but these are the main ones. Given the fact that we can show criminal activity to a judge would the judge be able to void the contract and order the removal of the legal charge over our property. Also is Wilson V Hurstanger still the up to date law that needs to be cited for the case of secret commission. Our problem is that our lender is saying that all contact was not with them but with the broker who is not in business anymore and that in effect they deny all contact except a welcoming call and letter at the end of the loan process, and are denying all responsibility for everything. We always believed that we were dealing with the lender and not the broker and have documentation on the lenders headed paper to prove contact before they say. Surely as the lender they must be at least responsible for their own paperwork. If anyone could offer some help and insight I would be grateful. thx Willow x

no probs thx would it be best to put this in legal as more people might see it? willow x

hi , an update on the situation as it stands, would appreciate any advice that anyone can give. FP pulled out of the repossession court case and we have not paid and they have not contacted us for approx 3 years. We sent them a letter before action last year which apart from generic responses they ignored we resent one this year which they ignored again. In desperation we filed a claim for our total payments to be returned and an amount which we had rebuilt upon credit cards under the mis rep act 1967 and cca unfair contracts section 140 a etc. We have evidence from their internal paperwork that they have increased our monthly income by £1000 per month by using gross income as our disposable income , they have confirmed this. we were unaware this is what they had done as they kept hold of all our paperwork (bank statements) etc until the loan was signed sealed and delivered. Again we can prove this via their paperwork. We knew something was wrong and spent a lot of time on the phone at the time and I advised them I was not happy with the loan and remonstrated with them, however I was made to feel that I was in the wrong and without our paperwork I could prove nothing. We were also told various things that we now realise amount to mis -representation which induced us into taking out the contract. We have put all these things in a detailed POC which we have now received a defence to . Our problem is that they have denied everything and said that we were talking to the broker loans.co.uk not them and that they only had one conversation with us at the end of the loan deal. They take no responsibility for anything apart from issuing the loan amount. However surely they have duty of care towards us. They must be responsible for a least some checks. They were happy to refinance for example a car loan for FORD onto 20 years which only had approx 18 months to run. We did advise them at the time of this but they are now saying that we only ever spoke to the broker. They have now advised us that they intend to resurrect the repossession claim from Feb 2011 as part of their defence. this is a very short version and many other things have gone on but I wondered if any one can advise me of what I need to do next of has any other advice or help. If any one needs more info than I will do my best to accommodate. thanking in advance . willow x

no i havnt as yet. they have changed solicitors, and i have received notification that they have transferred the case into their name at the court. So far the case has been suspended generally on First PLus wishes. They do not seem to want their paperwork in court, to the point of withdrawing from the court case and ignoring cpr requests within that court case. I do not see why they have changed solicitors and we will not change our paperwork or our requests. we also have their paperwork, so they can not issue new documents more favourable to them without us noticing!! does any one have any idea what they are hoping for with this course of action and what i should do next? thx willow x

hi dadofholly, No, they have not falsified any details except on their original paperwork. That is why i suspect they do not want to go into court, as i have that paperwork from our SAR. They just wont respond to our CPR request for all the rest of the information they should have on us which wasnt sent in the SAR ie telephone calls, underwriters sheet etc. We have sent a cpr letter while the court action was going on, and refered to them in the defence. As they have adjourned the case generally i guess they think they will not provide them. i have been requesting the telephone calls since October. These phone calls will back up everything in our defence statement, another reason why they seem unwilling to part with them. They will prove mis representation and unfair contract and mis- selling. I do have a letter from First Plus from last year stating they do have them and they have listened to them. I have sent about 6 letters since requesting transcripts but FP have ignored all of them plus the cpr requests. sorry if i am not making myself clear. Thx willow X

Hi, update on this is that First PLus seem to have pulled out of the repossession claim after sight of our defence. They and their solicitors have also not responded to the cpr requests that we sent seperately. Eversheds in their letter to us have asked for a general adjournment with the liberty to restore if they feel like it. Eversheds have also said that our account has been passed onto another solicitor, so it looks like they are not dealing with us anymore. does anyone know why or what we need to do now? First Plus clearly do not want their paperwork in court. they have had nearly 3 months on some of the things in the defence to get their paperwork in order. why go for a general adjournment and then swap solicitors? new solicitors can not change the evidence or their paperwork, or our defence and our paperwork. do i try to get the case struck out? can i do this on a repossession and how would i go about it? how do i get them to comply with the CPR request now? We have asked for the underwriters sheet in both the defence and the cpr letter but it has not been forthcoming. i want to claim back the commission payment that i know will have been paid to the broker but i have no proof yet so it makes it difficult!! part of the defence was under the unfair contract 140 a and b . i am tempted to issue a claim under this for all monies paid on this loan plus 8% interest to force the issue. i do not want this hanging over me. its not about claiming money back , its about them removing the charge from my house and rendering the contract between us void. would this make them more likely to want to settle out of court? they wont action legal requests and respond to court protocol i cant see what other choice i will have. i just want this nightmare company out of my life!! has anyone any other ideas please?? thx willow x

Hi Fretful, do you know if the unfair contacts legislation can be used for First Plus. i have been researching and have found that it seems that if a company is FSA regulated then the legislation can not be used. FP is regulated by them but only for general insurance purposes. All the main banks etc are fully covered by the FSA. Will this make a difference? If anyone else has an opinion i would be grateful as well. thx willow x

Hi, i wonder i someone can help me? i am currently fighting FP in court as they are trying to repossess my house. i have filed a basic defence in court under the fraud act, at which the judge nearly choked on his coffee! He has asked for a more partiularised defence to be sent to him explaining all details. i have also used the unfair contract part of the CCA act, section 140a as part of the defence. i have researched this and believe i am legally entitled to, but their legal representive said the loan was not covered by the CCA 1974 act and i couldnt use it. The loan is for £ 80k and was taken out in Aug 2006. I understand that this section was changed in oct 2007 and automatically included all existing unregulated and regulated agreements . This section was recently used in the Blemain and peter bentley case which was widely reported. My case is not so different. i understand that the rest of the loan is not covered by the CCA1974 but would just like conformation that i am right in using the unfair contract part. The EDIT part i have covered in their paperwork at which even their rep conceded i have a case! Also their default notices are not correct but i am not sure again if this would be covered as the loan is unregulated. Any advice on this i would be grateful. FP have asked for a delay in proceeding for a month as they need to check their paperwork and respond back to me. I am refusing to pay any monies to them until a judge in a court of law tells me i have a valid contract with them, which on producing thei paperwork i do not think he will be able to make that call. This will be a fight to the death as i will not be backing down. Any one else who has a loan with them might be interested in subject accessing FP and checking whether FP in their internal paperwork have imputed their salaries correctly ( ie not inflated ) and what they have or have not put on their income and expenditure sheet. Im guessing it might not be what they think!! Any advice and imput would be gratefully received. thx willow x

i have a free half hour consultation with a solicitor who deals exclusively with employment law on friday. i will have more info then and relay it back. it might also be useful for someone else. willow x

Hi HB I am waiting for a telephone call from a lawyer who specialises in employment law to call me back. I need to make sure I have a water tight case before i start any proceedings!!!! willow x

Have been onto ACAS today and they have advised me that if other part timers were having appraisals every year ( which they were) then i have been discriminated against as they have not done the same for me. Also there are possibly Data protection issues as well as they have updated my file adversley and used the infomation against me without my knowledge. You can be called at home by work if you are off sick unless you are off with stress, but you should be spoken to in an appropiate manner. Its looking like i might have a case. Willow x

Hi Honey Bee, Thx for that. My fall was put straight into the accident book. i have also put in a legal claim for compensation. Fairly sure that some of this is some kind of payback. Hard to prove though. There should be no long lasting complications from the accident. company terms and conditions are now all online. So I will have to do some research in a bit! Not filed grevience as yet, just through it into the conversation! Willow x

Hi, I have a problem at work which if anyone has any tips to give me i would be grateful. I recently applied for an internal position in a new store which i didnt get. A week ago i had an operation which relates to an accident at work that i had earlier on in the year. I only found out i was not offered the position after i hassled management for three weeks for an answer. Everyone else who applied was told within three days! I have worked for this company a major high street fashion retailer for over 6 years and have never been given an appraisal and i thought i had an unblemished record. However I have forced the manager to advise me on the contents of my personal file and she revealed one manager has updated it with adverse information which then was used as part of the process to deny me a job in the new store. Never in all the years that i have worked there has any member of staff ever had accasion to speak to me about any wrongdoing. The manager has acknowledged that they are in the wrong updating and using that information and also that i have had no apprasial for 6 years giving my no chance to defend my self or receive feedback. I am currently off recovering from my operation at the moment under a doctors note which they have received. This did not stop the manager ringing me on Friday and attacking me down the phone for an hour accusing me of all sorts because i threatened to raise a grevience about my treatment as i feel i have been treated badly, and differently to everyone else. I now feel that my position is untenable and that i will subjected to more bullying and differential treatment when I return to work. Have they broken any employment laws in any way with regard to updating files with adverse info without telling me, or no appraisals for 6 years, or indeed harrasment of me by phone when i am off under a drs note? I am happy to fight them if they have !! thx Willow x

Hi all, thanks for your replies. the £100 was for my husband and the letter was sent on his behalf. I nearly lost my marriage over their conduct as he was unaware of my credit card bill. But apart from that I didnt lose anything else. It was a very stressful time and I did everything I could to put it right but MBNA are the worst people in my experience to deal with. No other creditor was as bad as them. And the companies that treated me propperly have now all been paid back. I just hate them with a passion!! I was thinking of filing a sneaky court claim on line for a couple of grand and hope they dont defend!!! Maybe its just wishful thinking!! But they so deserve it! Willow..x

Hi, A while ago I had problems with MBNA. They had no contact number for me but my OH also had an account with them. This account was dormant and although a CC card account it had a balance of £100 in credit. They trawled through his account and found his mobile number which they started to ring and try to bully him into giving them my details. He received two phone calls and the latter was a woman who was very rude and aggresive to him and gave away personal details to him about my account. He sent in a detailed letter of complaint as he kept a log of calls and what was said and the names of the operatives. MBNA accepted the Data Protection Issues in the letter and also said their operatives had acted wrongly and would be dealt with by internal review. I still have the original letter in a safe place!. They also sent a cheque for £100 as compensation. They have never contacted me directly in relation to these problems. I am feeling much better now and I want to fight back. Do I have a case to fight in court in my own right on Data Protection. And if so what would be the going rate of compensation to ask for? Thanks Willow X

Hi Blue Boo, I have one their infamous letter of assignements supposedly from original creditor ,but with lowells data matrix on and sequence number printing on bottom of both letters ( one from lowells also) proving that the same printer printed both letters. Both came in the same envelope as well!! I will do the same as you did Angry Cat in my next letter of complaint. I have them on so many things, that i dont believe that it is going anywhere. I am just sick and tired of the strokes these companies pull and the amount of my time it takes in writing letters back to these idiots. I wouldnt mind but this isnt even really my account!! willow x

I have received a letter from lowells recently regarding an account in dispute with another DCA. Lowells have brought this account and i have advised them with the bemused letter that it is in dispute and to return it to last DCA but they have ignored this. They have now advised me that they have requested a copy of my CCA from the original creditor on my behalf. They go on to say that although they have not received my authorisation to do this, they have done it anyhow!! I have this in writing!! As they are purely a third party who I have never had any dealings with, there has to be data protection issues here. Have they also now committed a criminal offence by ordering financial details that they are not entitled to without my written consent, for their own benefit. I think so and i am thinking of informing the police, but thought I would run it by some more experienced people on CAG first!! Also they claim they have brought this account under section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. Does anyone have information on this, as I have not come across this before.? Thanks Willow XX

Hi Sleeping Dog, Good luck to you ,I really hope you win and do them for wasted costs as well!!! They seem to be taking this to the wire with my friend. I hope she can put up a good fight in court. I wont be able to go as I dont live near her. On paper they dont have a chance, but the judge allocated to her case is a top child abuse judge, which means that he probably doesnt have a good knowledge of Consumer Credit Law!!! All it takes is one swarmy solicitor muddying the clear waters!! willow x

WOW!! Check you out, I am so impressed FB. Have a party on them, i would!!! Seriously though referring to your comment about them just using the process to make themselves money. There are people out there who are jumping of bridges or slitting wrists, because of the pressure these bar stewards are putting them under. All for the sake of a quick buck! Its outrageous behaviour. So much for the British Legal System. Its as corrupt as everything else in this country!! Rant over! Thx for replies. Willow xx

Hi, I am helping a friend who has 4 different credit cards with MBNA . She is being persued through the courts by Restons. She has sent in her defences. And now has been advised that they have been transferred to her local court for October hearing. We have given court directions that they must produce originals of the CCA agreement, which they dont have, and default notice, again which they dont have. They have produced statements which they say are hers, but they are computer style without even her name or account number on them on blank paper. In their AQ they are saying that her defence is in the style of computer based websites (ie CAG) and have said that it is not a sensiable defence and that in effect is not worth the paper it is written on!!! It is a really good defence and worked for me last year in court. They even say in their response that the agreement they have is a copy, but a brand new pristine copy would have been signed at the time! The agreement is an application form with none of the required or prescribed terms on it.( I think it was a mail shot.) Already dealt with in her original defence. They also state that terms and conditions are from 2008 which will be shown in court, but her agreement is from 1996. As the Consumer Law is clearly against MBNA/ RESTONS can any one shed any light on why they seem intent in taking it all the way? Have I missed something here because it is costing them money, although they are passing it on to her as she has received statements from MBNA recently with all the account numbers changed, and 2 lots of court costs have been added to each account already!! She hasnt been to court yet so how can they do this? I really dont understand so any advice will be gratefully received!!! Thanks Willow XX

Hi Angel, Glad you are back and fighting. Do what Trudy B says. Acknowledge online and send CPR letter to D and G sols. They are playing silly buggers at the moment and are sending letters back asking for signatures if letters are unsigned. Its a delaying tactic, which you dont really need at this stage, so I would sign your name differently on debt letters, so you can identify your DEBT signature!! Currently beating MBNA/ RESTONS through the courts at the moment. for a friend. She has 4 accounts going through the process at the moment. I swear Restons didnt read any of her defences and just pressed a button to send them fast track. It is going to cost them 4 x £250 wasted costs as they cant hope to win. Judge is going to strike out the cases on Friday if Restons do not respond by then.:D:D:D:D Be aware that banks/ solicitors are not giving up so easily now giving the current climate. They hope that making the case a longer drawn out process that you will slip up ,or not defend ,or just be intimadated enough to give up. Then they get the CCJ by default. Dont let this happen!!! MAke sure you get all papers to the court in good time. GL PM me if you need me. Willow xx:p

well done Suzi, Summerbreeze is right. You are obviously very brave, and a lot more resilliant than you realise. I hope you are really proud of yourself, I would be if I had your guts.!! Well done again for standing up for yourself. will watch tonight with interest. Willow XX

I think the best plan of action is to hold tight for now and see if we hear back from Restons. Maybe they have passed the accounts back to MBNA as they knew they had no chance to win! It just throws me that they have come back with new credit card numbers set out in normal statement form. One of the minium payments on one account is over £900.!! As far as we are concerned this is still ongoing through the court system. She sent them the harrasment letter a few months ago and that did the trick after a week or so after it was sent, now she is getting lots of withheld calls again throughout the day starting when she got these new statements.. She doesnt take with held calls anymore, so cant say for sure its MBNA. Coincidence?? I doubt it!! Willow x

Already joined miss muppet, i consider it my duty to help anyone with problems with MBNA!! They were vile to me over a period of about 6 months. In the end they sold my account to equidebt which was so much easier than this senario. I CCa'd them over 18 months ago and still waiting!!! willow X:lol:

Hi everyone. I have been helping my friend to fight MBNA for the last few months now. She has 4 credit cards with them dating from 1999 onwards. They sent all 4 accounts to Restons who filed in court against her even though they were in dispute at the time. She got 3 application forms back from her CCA letter and one they advised they couldnt find. They also sent her made up default letters on blank paper ( no letter heads). I put together a defence for her for each account and she sent them back to court. At the beginning of June the court wrote to her confirming receipt of defences and giving Restons 28 days to reply to them. However this week she has received from MBNA new credit statements transfering the balances of all 4 credit cards onto new accounts with new numbers. They have also added on each account 2 x legal and court costs. ( not just the normal costs but twice the amounts!!) Restons have not been in touch to say court action has been discontinued, and MBNA have not mentioned it in their covering letters with these new statements, which read like a welcoming letter for a new account. What is going on? Does anyone else have experience of this. Do the court cases still stand? Can MBNA do this? It reads to me that they have reclaimed the accounts but why change all the account numbers? If they were unenforceable before they definately are now as she has not signed any new agreements. Does anyone have any ideas what her next move should be, as I have no idea now what to advise her to do. HELP!!! ! Thanks Willow X