No but I'm thinking of joining one. Any preference for manufacturing sector ?

I am salaried, yes I believe I signed out if it when I first started. In my interview I was told occasional overtime but on my first day I noticed it said for the company needs in the contract

When I started my job 15 months ago my contract said hours 8 til 5 but may change due to need of business. Now for the last 6 months I seem to be working 6am until 5.30pm every day. Where do I stand if I bring this up with them

2 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

what is the usual salary run cycle? if she gets paid monthly then they will pay her at the end of the month after she ahs left so they can tie up all of the loose ends

She left on the 15th and get a paid last day of the month. They paid her remaining holiday pay but did not pay 3 weeks ssp as she has been ill and off work

by giving them 14 days it gets paid when they said it will, the 15th, surely thats not reasonable ?

My wife handed in her notice and was expecting her last wages on Friday but they have only paid her holiday pay. She was also due 3 weeks ssp which was not paid

When she phoned her ex employer they said they would try to pay her by the 15th of this month. 2 and a half weeks later. 

Surely this can't be right and is not reasonable to wait this long. There is a likeyhood that she will incur bank charges over this

Any advice ?

Is it normal to have a second investigation meeting?

An update to the disciplinary meeting yesterday.

in the letter she received saying she had to attend the disciplinary yesterday it said she had to ring and confirm that she would be attending and she had the right to bring another employee of the company or a trade union rep.  She phoned and spoke to the office manager who was present in the first investigation meeting and took notes and said she would attending and asked if she could accompany her to the meeting to either take notes or be the accompanying person as she seemed to do a decent job with the minutes of the first meeting and was told she would speak to the area manager to try and arrange it. 

When my wife arrived for the meeting the area manager came down and called the receptionist and my wife into a private room.  they started the meeting and my wife said she had asked the office manager to take notes or accompany her to which the area manager replied the receptionist was there taking notes and she would not be having the person she asked for.  My wife was not accompanied by anyone, only the area manager was there and receptionist taking notes.

As this was highlighted as a disciplinary meeting on the paperwork my wife said it was exactly the same as the first meeting, asking the same questions basically again asking again why a report was not filled in to which again my wife said the same that she was outside with another member of staff left inside, and she was asked to complete the report as she could not possibly of seen what had happened as she was outside.  Same questions as previous basically.

At the end of the meeting the area manager asked my wife to read the notes taken and sign all of the pages.  My wife said that half the things in the meeting said were either incorrect or missing and spread over 4 pages of A4 in no sensible or logical order, even the girl writing the minutes when asked could not understand her own writing.  My wife said she was unhappy to sign anything as it was illegible.  She was told by the area manager she had to sign and my wife said no, the area manager then said she had to get advice form HR and left the room coming back in to say it would be re-written and sent to her by e-mail and to check over and return if she agreed, then she would have to go into the office to sign the paperwork.

The rewritten minutes came through last night and my wife said she was chased this morning via phone to agree to the wording and return via e-mail.  My wife said she has not read it properly and would return it when she had.

Upon reading the minutes it looks as if they are highlighting things like, girls left un-attended, report not done or area manger not phoned at the time, ignoring things that were said in the investigation meeting like member of staff left in the house when my wife worked outside, other member of staff asked to complete report and my wife already told them that she did not realise an area manager had to be contacted as a report was asked to be filled out.  she has never had to telephone an area manager previous with a report or any other member of staff has not either.

She also had a phone call from a private carer that takes one of the girls out asking if her back injury was better and asking why she decided to leave the company, information my wife has not told anyone.  My wife also explained about the on-going investigation and the carer which is employed by one of the girls fathers privately said she has had issues with the door in question and if the company wanted verification of that to contact her directly.

My wife has checked paperwork she has signed for previous and not signed anything to say about a phone call to accompany a report form and also unable to see in the company handbook as she never received one when she started 4 years ago.

Sorry to drone on but it seems as if they are trying to get her to slip up on what was said previous with a second investigation meeting.  

Any advice grateful

Many thanks Will do. The job offer at present been put on hold awaiting the outcome of the discaplinary meeting. He has had all references back, 4 of them and CRB checks being done which will be fine but because the employer she is with at present said on the reference she is under investigation it has been put on hold

I appriciciate all the advice from all. All noted

Yes she saw the letter many times as I adjusted things. She has a copy and also also agreed when I said about sending it. She was the one who posted it

14 minutes ago, mjr001 said:

I appreciate all advice I'm given it just annoys me that they are doing what they are doing. I don't understand how it can make things worse as she is leaving 3 days after the meeting anyway and it's obvious their intention is to dismiss her.  All that was put in it was about being outside and she was not the last person through the door. How can they blame her 

 

I will not correspond with them anymore and see what happens. They have asked in the letter that arrived if my wife wants the letter I sent in her discaplinarys meeting or not I'm assuming by the advice above it would not be a good idea ?

Also added to the letter that any blame on her part will be appealled.

Apologies once again

I appreciate all advice I'm given it just annoys me that they are doing what they are doing. I don't understand how it can make things worse as she is leaving 3 days after the meeting anyway and it's obvious their intention is to dismiss her.  All that was put in it was about being outside and she was not the last person through the door. How can they blame her 

I will not correspond with them anymore and see what happens. They have asked in the letter that arrived if my wife wants the letter I sent in her discaplinarys meeting or not I'm assuming by the advice above it would not be a good idea ?

I wrote to the company saying I believed they were wrong and highlighting my wife's points again ie working elsewhere. Somebody in the house etc and my wife had a response this morning saying they had received my letter but could not reply to me due to data protection. Did we want it added to the discaplinarys hearing or not

Many thanks all

Thanks. Will let you all know what happens on the 9th

6 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

 a lot of people photograpgh the daily reports and more commonly the shift rotas where employers have a habit of swapping people about with less the the amount of notice the employment contracts state will be given.

This is beneficial to employers as well as it prevents people form altering the day books so yes, she should use this to show that it was raised but it also raises the question about how are things followed up and whose is taksed to make sure it is.

the duty of care she has cannot be cancelled just because it has been noted in a book, you still have to shut the door or make sure it is closed regardless of who knows about the lock and whose job it is to replace it.

so we are back to square one with duty of care and safeguarding etc, she should have reported higher up the chain when positive feedback was lacking. that is the law

Yes noted but it's obvious that the member of staff that came into work an hour earlier left the door unmatched and the thing they are making a big thing of They were not supervised. One woman working inside and my wife informed her she was clearing the paths outside.  The member of staff inside then went to the patio to ask my wife something when the client walked out. Surely that's not my wife's fault ?

10 minutes ago, sangie5952 said:

She has evidence. It was lawfully obtained. So yes, she can produce it.

 

No you can't go. The law is clear. Union rep or work colleague only. And I'd also give  you some very good advice anyway - if you were either of those things, you would be the worst person to have in the room. You have no objectivity at all. You'd make things worse! You wouldn't be able to keep quiet, you'd argue about things that you aren't able to verify or that you haven't witnessed, and you couldn't possibly stick to the basics without trying to throw in the kitchen sink. And that would be the best you'd do! Get angry and she's definitely dismissed.... 

 

Your job is a shoulder to cry on and total belief in everything she says even if she's wrong. A good representative isn't either of those things. 

With regards to the photo of what was written in the comms book regarding the door. Is it lawfull ? This was a grey area when she got the photo. It's a journal of day to day issues at the property. No name are on it and it only highlights an issue with the door but not sure

Thank you so much.  So should it be said that she has evidence and can prove it as you have put above ?

Just a quick question. It says she can take a work colleague or union rep etc could I accompany her in the meeting or does it have to be one of the above ?

But surely as she wasn't the last one to come through the door as another member of staff started work just before if the clients were as vulnerable as they are making out there should have been procedures in place to double check doors by more than one member of staff that only just walked through it

Apparently this has occurred previous in the past where a client got out but it was swept under the carpet. Along with other things it just seems like this time they are trying to make a point as my wife has decided to leave. 

Is there any way in the meeting to say that any action taken will be vigorously defended. If they have doubts about what information my wife has maybe enough to make them reconsider their actions. Like I said they are saying nothing was ever mentioned about the faulty door when my wife has proof there was. Not that they know that

2 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

Procedures

safeguarding

thes 2 go hand in hand and everything shuld be written down and reported using the channels chosen by the employer or laid down in law where applicable. There are also procedures laid down for "whistleblowing" if the employer fails to record and report and you wife would have a right to demand from above what was being done or report to the next authority up the line or even the police in certain circumstances.

now this lead me to believe that although in this instance what you report is true and correct ther has been a systemic failure to record and respond to all sorts of thisng in the past and the 9Ex) employer is now jolted into action and more than happy to  look for an example to show that they are now taking notice and being good fellows after all.

 

if her continuous training has failed her then she should be honest about this to her new employer and get up to date with the current best practice as part of her induction. what i did at work 30 years ago is nothing like how things work now and no-one would expect it to be buit they would expect people to keep up with the current legislation and be able to show all of the necessary paperwork for every thing that has gone awry. That paper trail could have saved her from any accusative questioning about this incident.

Ok. Are you saying they should report all instances ? 

When the letter came through they have said that all members of staff say there was no issue with the door and nothing written down in reports. Let's just say my wife has proof it was. Would it be worth hinting this at her discaplinary ?

She spoke to the new employer today to say what has happened and he said that he already knew what had happened as they mentioned it on the reference. 

Have did say that he was thankful that she rang up to disclose the information and to let them know what happens at the discaplinary.

Not looking good but see what happens. 

She is going to phone the new employer in the morning and see if she can pop in to see them and explain all that's going on. Hopefully it will be ok but she's convinced that it will be withdrawn now especially after the new employer has already asked for a reference from her currant employer and it will probably be bad

When my wife had the interview on the Friday she knew nothing of what was happening with her currant employer.  She put her notice in and was told of the investigation later that day on the following Monday. I think that she should be honest and tell the new employer the situation. 

She is going to phone the new employer in the morning and see if she can pop in to see them and explain all that's going on. Hopefully it will be ok but she's convinced that it will be withdrawn now especially after the new employer has already asked for a reference from her currant employer and it will probably be bad