This topic was closed on 10 March 2019. If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there. If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened. - Consumer Action Group

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019. If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there. If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened. - Consumer Action Group

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019. If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there. If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened. - Consumer Action Group

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019. If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there. If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened. - Consumer Action Group

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019. If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there. If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened. - Consumer Action Group

Hi Manc, has your account been passed to Cabot or have you never had a reply from the original creditor to your CCA request? I am curious now about the whole thing. As I said in my post earlier today, I have been thinking about my GF situation recently simply because I haven't heard anything in such a long time and I am half expecting something to pop up now. Like Duffers Mum, I hope I am not tempting fate! The whole thing is really really odd. I may be wrong, but I suspect that there is no, or very little, remaining paperwork as somebody has been a bit slap happy with the shredder. I guess best to just wait and see what happens. Regards, Corn:roll:

Well that's good news Duffers Mum! It is not statute barred is it? I have been thinking about it a lot lately but haven't done anything about anything for so long for various reasons that I am completely out of the loop with what's going on these days! I think sometimes just watching and waiting is the best approach! Regards, Corn:-)

Goodness me! Could you expand? Did they have an agreement to produce? I am curious because agreements seem to have disappeared for many since the BC takeover. I am pleased to hear that the case was dismissed. Regards, Corn

Funny, I was just thinking about this the other day. I haven't heard anything since October 09 when I last posted on this subject. So nearly 2 years. I have no idea what is happening and have just let sleeping dogs lie. Would be interested to hear if anybody else has any news. Regards, Corn

Well this is an interesting turn of events! Having received the same letter as a few of you stating that they were treating the balance as irrecoverable as they could not provide an agreement (that was in May 2008), this morning I have received a letter enclosing a year's worth of statements from 2006/2007 and stating that this was "sufficient" evidence that the account exists and could I ring them to tell them how I am going to pay them back! They are obviously working down a list as evidenced by the posts here! I cannot see how they can enforce this without a signed agreement. They admit they are "still waiting" for a copy of the agreement from Goldfish. I am not sure how to deal with this, I feel I ought to write to them but think it should be along the lines of "no agreement - go away". Any comments? Kind regards, Corn x:)

Manc, you already have a letter from Cabot stating the debt was not recoverable, so why would they then think that providing statements was evidence enough? Er, I don't think so! I wonder if this will be a new tactic because they can't collect on any of the debts they bought in relation to Goldfish? Quite unbelievable. Regards, Corn x:)

Reggie, do you want the name of my barrister? Please do feel free to contact me if you do. It cost us around £2K for his input but we were dealing with a £16K debt which has, because of his input, now gone. Rhia has the same barrister for her case. Obviously I realise that not everybody has the money to do this and actually under ordinary circumstances we wouldn't have done either, we just happened to be a bit flush at the time because my husband had a lucrative work contract. However, without the barrister's input, we would have hopelessly lost. So, you need to think about it. Also, site helper Car2403, I think you were a bit harsh, if I were a new poster, you would have frightened me off, never to have returned again! Let me know if I can be of further help Reggie. Regards, Corn x

Pedross, apologies for not replying to your original post to me more quickly! It seems that others have posted since and have answered as I would have done! This is the problem isn't it? Most debtors wouldn't have a clue about the intricacies of a default notice or termination notice and would probably just accept the re-issue and not bring that particular point of law to the attention of the presiding Judge. When I attended Rhia's court case, it was shocking to hear the Judge basically say "well we can't have this, we'll be inundated"!!!! So, I do think they often rely on the debtors lack of knowledge to just dispose of a case as quickly as possible and make sure the creditor gets something by way of payment. Thanks to sites like this, the tide is turning. This is why it is SO important for Reggie to appeal because the defective default notice is a screw up by the claimant, they have been caught on the hop by the new regulations and the Judge really ought to know better. I will be very interested to see how this pans out. Good luck Reggie. Regards, Corn x:)

Right, if the default notice is invalid, this should be a full defence on its' own and I am very surprised that your DJ thought this was irrelevant, because that is simply not the case under current laws. The creditor can repair the paperwork ie : terminate the current claim, issue a new default notice and termination notice and start a new claim but there are pitfalls in them doing so. This would usually be seen as a complete abuse of process as they should have got it right in the first place. I don't know what your current circumstances are but would certainly recommend you seek legal advice. I retained a Barrister on a public access basis and if it were not for him, I would be in a very different position now. I know you have had a shocking day, but you have three weeks now in which to lodge an appeal and I would certainly concentrate on the invalid default notice as this really is your trump card. I concentrated far too much on the S.78 argument which actually became insignificant after it was revealed that the default notice was invalid (something I actually didn't notice myself despite working on my case for two years!). I wish you luck and will watch the thread with interest. Regards, Corn x:)

That'll be me! Right, I haven't got time to read the whole thread but I am interested in this issue with the invalid default notice as that is significant. Are we 100% sure the default notice is invalid? I will need to refer to my Barrister's notes on this matter as it has been a long time since my case concluded. It may help with your appeal, which you MUST do! I have a school function to attend shortly, but will come back with the necessary quotes later. Regards, Corn x:)

HA HA HA! I have just had the EXACT same letter and we are talking a five figure sum. What went wrong do you think? Shredder ran amok??!! Just deciding how to proceed with the issue of Cabot still reporting to CRA's without paperwork. It will be interesting to see how many more of these letters pop up! Regards, Corn x

Crikey! I can't believe that your daughter is 15 months old! It seems only five minutes since you were pregnant!!! I'll PM you details of contact as I don't think it is who you think it is!!!! Give me a minute x

Hello stranger! How are you? Nice to see you! Thanks for your good wishes, it is a huge relief as you can imagine! Well we know they can't do anything without an effective default notice so I am not sure what they are playing at! How long has this been going on for??!!

Hi all, sorry it has taken me a while to get back on here. Now, I think there are a lot of misapprehensions here and I perhaps didn't explain myself very well. Obviously I can only refer to my case and the advice I have received so it may not apply to other individual cases. My initial argument with MBNA was that they had not produced a true copy of the executed agreement. This argument was subsequently found to be flawed because they had in fact produced everything that was required (even though some of it was questionable as, for example, there were two different sets of T&C's), but the fact remained that what they did produce was a whole agreement. My case progressed from there as MBNA sold the account onto a collector. The collector then made mistakes in that it didn't respond to my CCA request, my SAR and the default notice was irredeemably flawed. These points collectively formed the basis of my defence. It was nothing to do with the agreement. I feel, as everybody else does, that they shouldn't be able to put something together and call it an agreement and how this is dealt with in court is very much down to the judge on the day. Having observed a case in 2007 (again with MBNA), I saw the judge accept what MBNA said was an agreement (even though it was unbelievable as the pages were completely illegible). Also, if you have a situation where the agreement is not signed by either the debtor or the creditor, then they don't have a leg to stand on. So each invididual case must be judged on its merits. I recently helped another CAG'er who is off to court and it transpired that her actual winning argument was the defective default notice NOT the agreement. This is why you have to be very careful with checking your paperwork. Further, your creditor will do all they can to prevent you from seeing the assignment documentation - this is because their it shows if they actually have a right to sue you.....and often they don't! I hope that this clears up some of your questions above and Underdog, I will PM you. Kind regards, Corn x:)

Also, settlement was for just over a grand....you can probably now see why this was such a result and also why your original creditor selling on is the best thing that can happen...the debts are sold for 5 to 10% or less of the original defaulting sum, so therefore, you have a much larger scope for negotiation! xx

Underdog and Williamzz...I am just off to bed, but will update tomorrow...I promise...I know this is a pain, but a lot to type up and I want to make sure I give you the right advice!! However, I can tell you that according to my barrister, it is OK for the creditor to make up an agreement, as long as it contains the prescribed terms, the t&C's applicable and signatures of both parties. This was a punch in the stomach for me, but I can't argue with his as it's his speciality and has been for the past 34 years...I think that there is a lot more to talk about with this but I am falling asleep and have to get up for the school run in the morning...so I will be back to expand. Please PM me with questions if you wish. Regards, Corn x:)

Thanks Worm! What do you make of your WP offer? Is is achievable? I have learned so much from all of this, the main thing being that we are all going down the wrong track with the "cut and shuffle" agreements - they can cut and shuffle, as long as it means what they produce is something like the document you would have signed. Obviously, the S78 argument has also been somewhat sullied by the lovely Rankines too...so things are not easy for the hard done by consumer. Also, anybody who wants to argue about the cut and shuffle issue can do so with my barrister with 35 years experience of consumer credit!!! The one other thing I would say is check your default notices VERY carefully, it is easy to miss the biggest mistake a lot of creditors make. Oh I'm going to get lots of questions now!!!! xxx

Well after a couple of years, 20,000 odd views, and more than a thousand posts, I am SO pleased to tell you all that this is over!! We started last year with court papers from Arrow Global and their sols. At this time I instructed a barrister under the public access scheme, a man who really is worth his weight in gold and who has been absolutely fantastic. There have been lots of issues inbetween time and I am sorry for not keeping the thread updated. As is usual during the course of litigation of this manner, we were obliged to offer a small settlement as the courts would prefer such issues are settled between parties. Of course, this wasn't accepted and we muddled on, producing witness statements, completion the pre-trial checklist etc. We were forced to make applications to the court after Arrow Global failed to follow court directions and there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing. However, completely out of the blue, we received a communication to state that Arrow were willing to accept the settlement we had previously offered, with no order for costs, and that would be the end of it. Of course, we have accepted that and the process of discontinuance is now underway. I feel completely vindicated. Whilst we didn't actually get our day in court, it was obvious fairly early on that the opposition didn't have a leg to stand on and my barrister was confident that they would pull out pre-trial. He was right! The result of this is that £16K and a possible £10K costs order has gone! All that is left to do is to thank all of you for keeping me sane during all of this, the thread was my lifeline for a very long time and whilst it digressed every now and again:rolleyes:, was a huge learning curve because of the amazing amount of collective knowledge! Very special thanks must go to Stan, without whom, I would have sunk a very long time ago! THANKS ALL and I think we can now close this thread!!! Lots of love, Corn x:)

BRW, I know you're not having a pop! I am merely imparting the words of my eminent barrister! You're right though, they can try and probably won't have a hope in hell, but it doesn't mean they won't!!! Also, as a side issue, and I normally wouldn't divulge such personal information but Pudsters and I have just discovered that we are actually Facebook friends without even knowing it! What are the chances of that??!! Goes to show that we never know who's paths we are crossing on the sites.....a cautionary tale indeed!! I can help her a bit more personally now!!

I have PM'd you, I am happy to show you my witness statement so you can see how simple it really needs to be. I am sure it is just a case of cutting and shuffling what you have already. As I said, just include everything in your bundle, in sub-sections, clearly marked and perhaps a section for case law if you so wish. It needn't be complicated and you're doing really well, so panic not!! Have you not done the disclosure documents list yet? Have you not been asked to do it?