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  1. Thanks Bazaar,your 2 bobs worth is most welcome, and is a very sensible synopsis,I just find that after reading so much on here,my mind sometimes spins and I am unsure of most effective way to proceed. Much Appreciated Circa
  2. Thank you Slick ,I totally agree with you on the CCA impasse,and I know some of this work is somewhat pioneering as maybe with CPR in this context,I just find the impasse and B/C total lack of sensible communication very frustrating. I like difinitive answers and know now that in this case it is not always possible,the banks truly are a law unto themselves. You response does give me an alternative line ,so I will now chew over and make a decision and act on it. So thank you for help it is much appreciated. Kind Regards Circa
  3. Many Thanks Slick, You say If you're going to try the CPR 31.16 route,can I ask what other options/directions are open to me? I have read the thread you suggested and whilst it makes fascinating reading I found it to be somewhat ambiguous and inconclusive, with the costs issue seeming a real danger,I say that respectfully as i know the subject was intelligently debated. Cant find much other giudance to follow the last letter from B/C ,if there is no other routes to follow at this time can you please let me know so as to make a decision on what to do next Your Help much appreciated, Circa
  4. Hi Slick,Happy New Year Thanks for the link to the thread,is this the right area to formulate a response,I find alot of this difficult to understand and could do with an explanation in laymans terms Can you recommend the correct response to to the B/C letter containing the first heading HOW DOES THE ACT DEFINE AN 'EXECUTED AGREEMENT'? Stuck what to write next,what line does the argument take? Regards Circa
  5. Hi Tosh,thank you for that.Can I ask if your letter/response to B/C has been tested ,have you had a reply?Has the author of this letter had a positive response? I am not familiar with Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16),is this to be used if you are bringing legal/court action as a claimant?and can it only be used in this context,in other words: do you have to start action to use this protocol?. I am really confused by the gobbledegook they have sent me and cant see how this mitigates the illegibility issue of the T&Cs they have sent me., Thanks again for taking the time Tosh1 and would still like to hear Slicks comments or any other experienced site members as this stadard relpy from B/C seems very dismissive and combative. Any help always appreciated Regards Circa ,
  6. Hi Slick, Sent off the letter as suggested and pointed out that illegible photocopies of T&Cs is not sufficient and got this reply ,can you please help ?. Any idea what to send next, Many Thanks in advance Circa I write further to the letter whereby you note disatisfaction to the documents you received to a request made under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974 Firstly, credit cards are regulated under section 78. Section 78(1) of the act stated that the creditor shall give the debter a copy of the excuted agreement and a statement of account which is practicable to refer. Regarding a statement of account which is practicable to refer, the letters which we send in responce to a section 78(1) request includes this information. To cover the issue of executed agreement. HOW DOES THE ACT DEFINE AN 'EXECUTED AGREEMENT'? 'Executed agreement' is defined in section 189 of the Act as 'a document, signed by or on behalf of the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement...' WHAT DO THE RULES SAY ABOUT PROVIDING A COPY? The consumer credit (cancellation notice and copies of documents) Regulations 1983 ('The Regulations') made under the act deal with how we are to provide a 'copy' of the agreeent. These regualtions provide that any copy of the agreement supplied to a debter should be a 'true' copy. Regulation 3(2) provides that a copy may omit certain information, which allows you to be provided with a true copy, not a complete copy. WHAT HAPPENS IF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT HAS BEEN VARIED SINCE IT WAS ORIGINALLY SIGNED? The regulation also set out what should happen where the agreement has been varied since it was signed. Regulation 7 provides creditors with a choice of including in the copy of the executed agreement either a copy of the latest notice of variation relating to each discrete term which has not been varied. Regulation 7 does NOT state that the copy of the agreement shall include a statement of the original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Regulation 7 allows us to provide you with a 'true copy' which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of provision of the copy. CONCLUSION IN RELATION TO THE DOCUMENT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE A 'copy' of an agreement will satisfy the requirements even if the signature box and/or the signatures are not included as clarified by regulation 3(2) of the consumer credit (cancellation Notice and copies of documents) Regulations 1983 The definition of 'executed agreement' refers to a document embodying the terms of the regulated agreement. When this is read with with Regulation 7 - for agreements that have been varied - a copy of the original agreement would not embody its terms. A copy of the agreement as varied would embody its terms. The issue of what is an executed agreeent has been interpreted in th High Court. It was held that an executed agreement begins as a credit agreement which is sent to the cardholder when they receive their credit card: therefore, establishing what is the original executed agreement. When the agreement has benn varied, Regulation 7 mentioned above applies. To summarise, if the agreement has not been varied, we must send the origanal executed agreement: this would be the credit agreement which is currently regulated. If the credit agreement has been varied, we must send the current credit agreement as this will contain the terms of the regulated agreement. We have sent you this and the original executed agreement for reference. I hope this letter has helped with your concerns about the documents you have been supplied with under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974. As our response fulfils the obligation under Section 78 of the Consumenr Credit Act 1974, you should carry on paying the debt you have accured on your account. We do not class the account in dispute, as you have been supplied with the relevent documentation under Section 78 of the Consumenr Credit Act 1974 and we will carry on with collection serices. Yours Sincerly Court Orders and Disclosures.
  7. Yep thanks for that Bazarr,but Slicks letter also confuses me with the legal speak from the Consumer credit act/law. Thats why I asked for a brief description in Laymans terms to the part I had Highlighted. Or if you can point me to the correct letter in the templates libruary,(maybe a more concise version)because I do not understand which bits are relevant to me in Slicks letter, Hope you can help me , Many thanks
  8. Hi Bazaar,thanks ,had a look cant find anything suitable,would you be kind enough to help. Many Thanks, Circa
  9. Hi Slick,thank you for your help,can you just clarify for me: Iam I understanding the item correctly under what may be omitted? Siginature?,is that correct that a signiture or signiture box as in, "The regulations state: (2) There may be omitted from any such copy- (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy; (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies); " Shouldnt it read may not be omitted?if not could you please explain in laymans terms, All help appreciated, Regards Circa
  10. Hi Slick finally got a response from B.C . As I have 2 CC accounts I requested 2 copies of CCA one for each account . They have sent a very poor photocopy of a leaflet with terms and conditions on it,there is nothing filled in by anyone and obviously no signiture from myself.I dont think I need to post this up for acknowledgement of it not being the true agreement,but can you advise me on what next,are there any good letters to send when there is no proper CCA in place?. On the second account they sent a letter saying they needed more to for their investigations. All would be appreciated. Circa
  11. Fozzybobble,thanks for a sincere reply,sorry about typo 43 should read 34,but your reply made me laugh an I take your point. Good luck with your Moorcroft ,your letterhead cracked me up. Kind Regards Circa P.S and yes my credit rating is also shot !
  12. Hi Fuzzybobble, I do enjoy your posts.Obviously cant help but notice what outstanding success who have had on the DCA front,ie Fuzzybobble 43-DCA 0. What I want to ask you,its a bit awkward,and dont know how to phrase,because I definately do not want to offend. Have you had such a high level of success,because you credit reference file is lets say not perfect,for e.g if someone already has a CCJ or more then the DCAs threats of court action and subsequent CCj are fairly meaningless and I read on the forum somewhere that if you already got CCjs then they dont bother chasing as hard cos the threat loses any power.In other words if you got nothing to lose,there is not alot they can do. If this is not the case ,can you give me some tips for fighting Moorcroft and Barclaycard,because I know they will both go the court route with enough provocation Anyhelp appreciated. P.S I hope Ive explained what I mean ok.
  13. Paul,Good Afternoon, Thanks again for detailed intelligent reply. I totally agree with the reasoning behind stopping payment,its just I know their administration is very very poor or sinister or both and that they will just keep adding charges and interest,and its all the work/energy thats involved undoing all that incompetance. Good luck with yours, Kind Regards Circa
  14. Paul,Thank you very much. Your second letter is v simular to the last one I sent. So will construct something along the lines of your 3r and see if that helps. Thanks again for a prompt and helpful response. P.S May I ask if you continued to make payments on the account whilst in dispute as this is another area where there seems to be confusion as the right thing to do,either morally or in view of any future potential litigation. Kind Regards,. Circa
  15. Paul Hi, I have exactly the same situation with B/C ,can you give me any advice as to the outline of the stern letter that finally got a response from them,as the have just totally ignored all my recorded del requests for a CCA,laterly using a Curly Ben letter that I thought would do the trick,but no luck,the arrogance is staggering. I am frustrated to say the least. Any help much apprecited, Regards Circa
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