thank you! I did send it recorded before, and it was my boyfriend's cheque. His bank for some reason decided to cancel 21 of his cheques, we think maybe because they had sent out a new chequebook, but he had about 3 cheques returned, and this was one of them. after my initial post I did some reading and felt more reassured too. I somehow always feel that I will be the one person the court does something weird to etc. I will send a new letter out next week, and start counting again.

Hi, i haven't been to this bit of the forums yet, as have been too busy dealing with debts, but I have processes underway there so decided to come here at last! My partner and I are really struggling financially at the moment, and we are desperate to move as most of our money is going into our house, which we rented when I was earning a lot more. It's one of those chicken egg situations where we can't save money till we move, but we can't move till we've saved some money. Most of our debt is in my name, and currently most of it isn't being chased, so I am leaving it dormant, even though I know I have a ton of charges I could reclaim (I will do this if the sleeping dragon wakes, but I'm not going to prod it as I owe them more than they owe me) My partner however, has relatively good finances, except for a large overdraft of £1700, which we are now regularly exceeding. We are just treading water every month. He is with Abbey, and I what I would like to know is whether we will be able to pursue a claims charge (there are a lot of charges on his account!) without making our situation even worse. For instance, should he get a back up account ready? Should we move our debits and payments? I am just a bit unclear about what chasing teh charges will actually mean. He also has two credit card accounts- one is paid off now and one has £600 outsatnding which he pays at minimum amount each month, so can he also claim on these? Is it worth claiming now before the test case pallaver has finished, or should we wait? General advice would really be appreciated. Thanks!

how exciting- when i was unemployed with a newborn son last year and they wouldn't accept proposals for reasonable repayments on my debts, this sort of thing would have come in very handy. Still would in fact- I've got two DCA's after me now, but there are about 6 more debts lurking that I haven't heard from in over a year.

Hi all, I have received a letter, nicely timed for the bank hol, from Eversheds saying that the cheque I sent with my CCA request has bounced (the bank cancelled it in error, in fact) and that they are not obliged to provide any documentation until they have received it. Is this true? Does it mean that my CCA process has to start again from day one, or are they bulls**tting me? I sent it on March 22nd, so they've taken their sweet time. They also mention in the letter that i was previously paying the debt through an IVA to them, and to refer to the insolvency practitioner if I have any doubts about the debt. Does the fact that I have previously acknowledged the debt through an IVA invalidate or weaken any case I might have for not paying? ie if they ended up in court could that trump the fact that they couldn't produce documentation? Also (edit) does anyone know if Eversheds are ACTUALLY a solicitor or are they one of these DCA's with ideas above their station? I just feel so uncertain about the whole thing now, and am wondering if bankruptcy might be a less stressful resolution? i don't want to do that though.

well, reluctantly I answered one of their calls today, and the guy was actually quite reasonable- he said they'd applied for the information I'd asked for but it takes up to 12 weeks bla bla. I said the LAW said they should already have it or they shouldn't be chasing a debt they have no evidence of. I advised that I would speak to them if they ever coughed up the documents, but until then, it was legally unenforceable and they shouldn't be contacting me. He tried a few ways to get me to confess to owning the debt but I just repeated myself. He was pretty respectful actually, so I was polite, and in the end he said he would check why I hadn't been sent an acknowledgement letter (which he offered off his own back, I didn't ask for that), and that he would put the account on hold until the documents came through. If only they were all like that! He did say that they ahd asked Citi for my 'application form'. I had to bite my tongue from telling him it's not the App form they need! I felt a bit mean after, as he was quite nice. LOL.

Hi all, just need some advice on my position: having sent CCA requests (recorded delivery) to Eversheds and Cabot some weeks ago, my partner received a letter from his bank saying that both these cheques were cancelled. This was the bank's error, and it's been (hopefully) sorted now, but where do I stand? Does the fact that I haven't paid my fee mean that my CCA requests are now invalid? I have had a solicitors letter from Cabot's cronies now saying it's progressed to legal collection and they will go to court blah blah, so I need to understand whether I need to send the whole CCA plus payment again, or just send new cheques, or wait for them to ask me. Plus, i was all fired up to send a snotty letter to the 'solicitor' and now I'm not sure if I can. Any advice would be most welcome! PS i am now getting about three calls a day from one or the other of them (I don't answer, but maybe I should?) Help! PPS i have not had any acknowledgement of either my letters, any CCA info or the payments (cancelled or not)

Hi all, Over 12 working days ago I sent off a standard CCA request and cheque to Cabot, requesting that they send me proof of their ownership of my debt etc etc (I think it was a letter scarletpimpernel provided). Today I received a letter from 'Hodsons' solicitors, based in Rugby, saying that they are instructed by cabot financial Europe limited to administer the account on behalf of Cabot Financial UK limited. The debt appears to have magically grown by about £800 as well, so they must be providing an excellent service The letter threatens that if I fail to agree terms for repayment within 7 days from the date of the letter they may issue proceedings for recovery with no further notice and prompt enforcement of anny CCJ will be pursued. I am feeling a bit wobbly about this- I know Cabot received my recorded delivery letter as there is an electronic signature recorded, and technically I know this means that having not provided my information as requested, they and their cronies can whistle for it. I'm also vaguely aware that it may even be the case that only the original creditor can pursue court action (can anyone confirm?), but I'm just not sure that the shaved monkeys at the typewriters have realised this while bashing out their meisterworks. Could someone (or several people) please offer some advice on where I go from here? I had expected Cabot to send me their standard 'we are not obliged etc etc' letter, so this has thrown me a bit. I seriously do not want to go to court, I work in the defence industry and this sort of thing can affect my level of security clearance. Please guys and gals- what to do??!

Just quickly- if you ever want to make an offer to anyone in a legal situation, Put a title in bold lettering stating 'Without Prejudice'. This is a legal term that means that your offer/letter may not be later brought up in court or in any future discussions without the consent of both parties (where as you rightly say it may be seen as acknowledgement of your culpability). Adding this basically means that although you are making them an offer, you are not acknowledging any liability to them, and your offer should not prejudice any future claims should an agreement not be reached. Hope this makes sense!

I may as well fess up here, that i used to do inhouse debt recovery for NTL. This was about ooooohh, ten years ago, and i was just a temp desperate for work. I only lasted about 3 months before I was 'let go' the week after a glowing appraisal (typical NTL employee handling). I just thought I'd share two main observations about this experience: 1) Almost all the staff were temps (so expendable and no holiday or sick pay, or perks), treated like cattle, and utterly miserable. I worked for a man who once stood at my desk and said 'you're two minutes late!' when I came back from my fag break. People were fired left right and centre and staff morale was nearly as abysmal as the wages. Most of the staff were either students in their holidays or people who were just poorly educated/desperate. We were given no formal training, just on the job experience and harsh targets. I can only assume this is industry practise. I had absolutely no legal knowledge at that stage. My boss, a real Dave Brent,but without the pathos, used to tell us that he had once repossessed a car from a family on Christmas day, and that it was their fault for getting into debt. We were never really asked to consider whole circumstances. I think the two worst moments for me were a) having someone threaten to stab her husband if we pursued her debt, she was clearly off her tree, and it worried me for a long time. b) what really upset me, as it would anyone with a conscience, trying to make a payment arrangement with an elderly woman on state pension because her phone bill had been run up on porn lines by her son on leave from his oil rig. She burst into tears on the phone, and said she didn't know what to do, and she didn't have any money. Unfortunately, the debt was in her name and since it was all done on fibre optic, there was no way it was a mistake. It really bothered me at the time, and it bothers me now. I told her at the time that we could collect a pound a month or something, but I never found out what happened because the case was passed to legal, who I suspect would have made a formal arrangement. I found it wholly distasteful, and very upsetting. Even though it was poor timing being ditched (me, my Dad and my brother were all unemployed), I was glad not to have to upset people in this way again. I do wonder though whether I was unusual- it seems to me that most people who are employed to do these roles are people who basically can't do anything else, are students, or just need a job quick. The staff turnover is horrendous. The pay is minimum wage- you 're bound to employ monkeys. I don't have particular sympathy with DCA's, but I do understand why if you live in a crap area with no jobs, which is where these call centres tend to be, you'd take a debt recovery job. That doesn't excuse the behaviour of some, of course, and I know some people enjoy the power over others. In general I have found call centre work to be depressing, demoralising, low-paid, low-respect work, and it doesn't surpise me that the quality of staff is low. They don't care! Call centres are the modern workhouses and blacking factories. b) despite encountering some unpleasant cases, I don't recall any of us EVER being encouraged to lie, bully, swear, shout or threaten. We were encouraged to be cooperative and sympathetic but firm, and to tell the truth about likely consequences, ie withdrawal of the services. Some people were just wasters, but the majority of people had just fallen on hard times. The mentality was that if someone could only pay £1 a month that was ok, as long as they kept in contact with us. i don't say that to defend anything wrong that may have occurred, but I do wonder why more DCA's couldn't conduct themselves like we were encouraged to? Companies need a way of chasing debts, but its the threats and lies that are utterly despicable and unecessary, and I feel that I can say that from experience. I do wonder if we were 'softer' because we were in house, or whether something has fundamentally changed in the last few years to see this aggressive behaviour encouraged? It does seem to me that it is the companies encouraging it too. I've seen similar in sales environments- the lies told to sell car insurance were incredible. The average consumer has absolutely no idea how far they are ripped off every day of their lives, in so many ways, not just through money but through ignorance of their consumer rights. Anyway, i just thought I'd share my experience. You can feel free to pelt me with tomatoes now.

the ones who are still breathing?

well I've sent off a letter to cabot today. i just put their ref no on it, but i wonder if, having looked a bit more closely, they changed the number when they sent me a new card at some point? Also- looking thru my correspondence, I see that at some point they used my name and address, but referred to me as 'Ms Zauner'- very definitely not me (my surname begins with an 'A' for a start)! A letter then thanks me for my change of address details. Confusing! Does the credit agreement have to have a date or reference number on, because this one has neither, although presumably I signed and dated one, but then it could be for any debt couldn't it?

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone knows about whether a Credit Card Company can change your account no when you go into their debt system? I have been receiving correspondence from the nice people at Cabot , about what I assumed to be an old debt with Citifinancial (credit card), but at the last moment I thought I should double check that the acct nos matched my old statements before sending off a CCA. Lo and behold, they don't! Well, I thought, this will be simple- send CCA, wait to get nothing back. However, I then checked the little correspondence i have remaining from Citi themselves, and it is on their correspondence that the number changed! On my statements it is one number, and on their (debt recovery) letters it is another. I am a bit disturbed by this, because surely the account number is one of the key identifiers to this being my account? I have only ever had one card with Citi, so it is not another account in my name. Can anyone shed any light on this, or has anyone experienced similar?? Where do I stand if they produce a CCA for the original amount (which I think they might, as I have a compliant CCA at home for that account) and then ask it to be paid against this number? :???: btw, I haven't put an account no against my letter, just the Cabot ref no, to see what they come back with.

please guys! I really need some advice on this!

Thank you Lumi, you're a star!!

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Sorry to be such a thickie, but I've looked in bank templates, letter templates and in various threads, but can't see it anywhere- does anyone have a link?

on a purely theoretical note... If everyone flooded the system with CCAs and refused to pay DCA's, maybe the financial institutions would be forced to find a legal, fair and moral way to reclaim debts owed to them Personally, I won't give a penny I am not forced to, purely because these people (and i include the original creditors here) have made my life utter hell at various points, bullied and lied to me, reduced me to tears, added thousands of pounds of debt to an already dire situation that arose through my partner leaving and refusing to pay towards our debts, refused to talk to me, refused to negotiate, refused to take what I could afford, refused to participate with Payplan, refused to participate with an IVA, etc etc I lost sympathy for any moral claim they have to my money a long time ago. They kick people when they are down and begging for help, repeatedly, so they can whistle for it. I don't think anyone has the right to appeal to my morals given the dirty underhand practices of some of these companies to get you to borrow in the first place (automatically increased limit anyone?) and then to threaten you when, surprise surprise, it all goes tits up. That being said, I appreciate that the advice given here is a balanced view based on likely legal outcomes, and experience.

Hi there, thanks for your reply! Don't worry- I've learnt my lesson re talking on the phone! i think i worded the bit about bankruptcy badly- i was pretty set on it until coming here, and then I realised I had a 'third way', ie by CCAing Cabot etc, so now I'm not going to go bankrupt unless I am forced to. is that what you meant, or do you mean that i should think about going bankrupt again? Also, when you say that DCA's have no legal powers, I thought Cabot WAS the DCA? Am I getting my acronyms mixed up? If I claim charges on the account, I thought they had to suspend any collection activities until the query was resolved, is that incorrect? Sorry to ask so many questions, I'm quite new here! Yes reading here has made me feel slightly more human. At least i know other people have been there before, and I don't have to be scared.

Well this is really two separate enquiries: 1) after the failure of my IVA, Eversheds are saying they are chasing me on behalf of their 'client' (who appears to reside at their address and share a solicitor with them) Max Recovery, who bought my debt from MBNA for £4573. I want to issue a CCA but haven't seen any Eversheds/Max Recovery threads and wondered if anyone had any general advice or knew about their track record etc. A large part of that debt was added in charges and interest, this was due to an error on MBNA's part after which they would not accept reduced payments from me. At some point before my IVA they wrote and said they would accept a vastly reduced sum in final settlement but I refused at the time. If I am forced to cough up after the CCA req, can I ask for this again? can I get the balance reduced by the amount of charges? Can I chase for charges to be paid back if the debt proves unenforceable? I ahve no symapthy for them, they crippled me. 2) On looking at my up to date credit record, I see that Max Recovery have also registered a default against my name for a sum of around £5000- I genuinely have no idea what this is, as I have been through all my records and nothing fits. Suspiciously, a sum of around £1300 outstanding against an old Debenhams card has vanished altogether from my record, and I am wondering if they could really have added £4000 in charges over the last year??! Otherwise I think it must be a case of assigning a debt to the wrong person. They are not currently chasing thsi debt, so I am wary of poking the hornets nest, but I also do not want something that isn't mine, on my record. What should I do? Presumably a CCA isn't appropriate, so I'm not sure what sort of enquiry to make. I did notice an alias on my credit record that I have never used- My first name against my mother's maiden name, but her name was Jones, so I'm not taking that as overly significant. Could this be related? All help gratefully received :grin:

Right, having spoken to some of you lovely people, I have decided to send a CCA to these goons. The story so far: They say I owe £4500 odd (can't recall exact figure) on a Citicard, and they are now chasing me for this debt. I can't find any letters from them about this, I just get calls (although to be fair, I may have had a letter and disposed of it or misplaced it). Up until this week, i have always I am declaring myself bankrupt, which I was planning to do before I came here, and then they sod off for two weeks. Well this week I got someone particularly officious and she decided she 'had no choice' but to pass my account to their Legal team. That's when I came here for advice. I have a few questions relating to how I should proceed: My card limit was only £3500, so I think the rest of the debt is all charges and interest (cabot say they are adding interest, but can they do this?). Can I reduce my balance by claiming all my charges back? Would they suspend my account while I was doing this? Do i need to include anything in particular on the CCA? (And where is the template? I can't find it- sorry!) From what I've seen here so far, Cabot never produce the required documents in time, but i won't rely on that- has anyone known them to cough up the relevant stuff in good time? I have a copyhere of my credit agreement and it is compliant, so if they have this i will have to make an arrangement with them- are there rules around doing this? Any general advice? thanks! :grin:

Hi all, i wonder if anyone can advise me on the following issue: To cut a long story short, my Student loan account (old style loan) is in arrears because I entered into an IVA that collapsed last year and the Student Groan people didn't see fit to warn me that I should still fill in a deferment form, so when it collpased, they claimed all my missed loan payments as arrears, which now sit separately to the original loans- in itself a dodgy practice as this immediately ups my monthly payment. After a period of unemployment I had difficulty paying proper installments and made arrangements with a man on the phone to pay £5 a month for 4 months, ending this January, and they would call me to revise teh figure as I knew I was starting a new job, so it was just to give me some breathing space to get straight again. Very reasonable I thought, and I made all my payments, twice paying £10 when I could afford it. Only, no one called in January, and in Feb I made a payment of £30 to cover what I thought was a reasonable amount for jan and Feb. A few days later I got a letter from the delightful BCW, saying they now held my account and I was to ring them etc etc. I did this, and the guy I spoke to was so antagonistic and rude, and utterly unprofessional that he tried to lecture me about my rudeness (I had interrupted his speech to ask a perfectly legitimate question), and it just deteriorated very quickly when he tried to pick an argument with me and then said he wouldn't take my details as he wasn't prepared to deal with me and I would have to call back. I told him to Foxtrot Oscar, and put the phone down, which I have never done before- i am usually extra polite as I used to work in call centres and know how cack it can be. I rang back and his colleague basically bullied me and I believe lied about Scottish Law, saying that they would only take a minimum payment of £137 a month as that was my original loan agreement, and that if I paid less they had to accept it, but they wouldn't hold of taking an arrestment of earnings (?). I asked if they would actually do this in practise, and he evaded the question, but he told me an arrestment is where they freeze your bank account and can take out any money until your debt is paid. having a one year old and extortionate rent, I agreed to pay. he asked me directly if I could afford it, and I said 'No'. He carried on anyway. he was extremely brusque and humourless, and unpleasant. Anyway. I went away and thought about all this and decided it was very unfair as the Student Loan Co had broken their agreement not the other way around. I rang them and complained firstly about them passing me to a DCA when I had paid all of my payments and more, and said that I had clearly demonstrated willingness to pay and make arrangements. I also complained about the tactics and behaviour of BCW. The upshot being that they took my account back in house, and assured me that my account at BCW would be closed that evening by 5.30. I asked if the direct debit I had set up with BCW would still stand, and they said no, because the account will be closed. I'm sure you can guess what happened next- This month, £137 was taken from my account by BCW, despite the Student Loan Co having their own arrangement with me in place. I cannot afford to lose that kind of money right now! Tonight I called SLC and they were actually quite helpful. They assured me their debit was still in place to my account and said that a note on my account said BCW had been advised on 15th Feb to close my account. I took the girl's name, and she is writing me a letter with my debit details on it since it is still not showing on my electronic banking, which is how I got caught with BCW, and I refuse to get passed back to them again. She also said i couldn't have the money refunded as it has been credited against what I owe. I told her that I wanted a letter confirming that BCW were told to close my account on the 15th, so she said she would speak to their client liaison officer (?) on Monday, ascertain the details and call me. I advised that I wanted a letter as well, which she said was fine. So, my question, I suppose, is- did BCW have the right to do this, since I did not ask them to close my debit, expecting the SLC to do so as they had advised me? If not, what can I do about this? have they broken any laws? Even if I can't get the money back I want an apology- In total between Feb and March, I have paid out £217 with another £50 scheduled for end March, and my new tax style payments of £105 x 2. thats £477 in two months!! can I do anything about the fact that they now treat my arrears separately to my loans? My deferment for last year ends in May and I earn well above the threshold now (£32,000), but am still skint due to ridiculous rent, bills, nursery fees etc so can't afford the full amount of £50 plus £137 a month. She said i will have to arrangewith the deferment people in April to take them both into account, but will they do this? I feel like I'm being screwed for every penny- I thought these bloody loans were meant to be affordable! can anyone help?

have any of you read 1984? I first read it when I did my GCSE's about er.... :o 16 years ago......it seemed like fantasy then. Now it seems like inevitability.

oh yes, i forgot- my credit file also shows my (collapsed) IVA as having a 'satisfied by' date and saying it is 'completed'. Is that normal? Is this why none of the others are chasing me?

ok, I've gone away and thought about all this, and reviewed my credit file as well as my old statements and letters etc, and I have decided not to go bankrupt because my credit file now contains nothing worse than a default or six, and that's bad, but a bankruptcy would be considerably worse. Most of my defaults have 4 years to expire, so why add two more years misery on top with a new bankruptcy? For the two that are chasing- cabot and Eversheds (MAx Recovery), I am not sure what chance I stand, especially as i have found a fully compliant CCA in my Citi (now cabot) records (doesn't mean THEY can find it tho eh?), but I do know both companies registered a barrage of charges against me, so I am inclined to do the CCA and if that fails, throw it all into dispute by claiming charges back and at least reducing teh balance (assuming that the court case goes in consumers' favour, and that I can do this following a compliant CCA?). I will start two separate threads for these actions. While looking at my credit file, perhaps with fresh eyes, I found a number of oddities- A Debenhams card balance of £1300 or thereabouts has vanished without a trace (should I consider checking with the other credit agencies?) A mysterious £5000 balance on a 'store card' has appeared for which I have no reference, and is registered under Max Recovery again. I don't think even Debenhams would have added £4000 in charges, but if they have, I'll be glad to claim them back, pay off the card, and go on a long holiday with the remainder . This must be either a fraudulently obtained card, or one that has been incorrectly registered to my name. On this topic, my file also shows an alias I have never used, but which combines my first name with my mother's maiden name (but her name was Jones, so that isn't really proof of anything). Not sure what to do about this. It also still has records of my University addresses from the late 90's and links me to my ex partner (we still have an unused joint account which I think I must close now). Any advice on these issues would be appreciated- again I might start another thread to avoid confusion. Just want to say thanks so much to all of you who posted to me today. It really helped me to realise I have alternatives and support, and that I can use my skills and knowledge to at least fight some of this stuff, and hopefully win some too. It also gave me a good kick up the a*se, and made me realise that these people aren't magic and can't just do stuff they want without reference to anyone else. i think i will have to take things one step at a time- I am anxious not to lose the chance to claim back charges off my other creditors, so need to ponder that carefully, but I will post in the charges forum about that. HSBC have it coming, but I don't want to reawaken their interest in me. Hmmm... Anyway, Thanks everyone!! I'm glad I posted today.