OK. The POC are indeed vague, but that is because of the Northampton procedure. They should include the date of the agreement, in any event. They do no not have to refer to an LBA. Not using the 'CPR' letter or the Pt.18 request does not mean you are breaching the rules. It is not a requirement to send any such letters. The claimant must prove its claim. You have to prove nothing! The procedure (generally) for litigation is as follows:- 1. Claim served (inc POC) 2. AOS filed 3. File/serve defence 4. Allocation questionnaires filed 5. Directions given 6. Disclosure/Inspection 7. Exchange statements 8. Listing 9. Trial You should wait until disclosure and see what it brings before sending letters for specific documents. The claimant will give you a list of the documents they intend to use to prove its claim. This will include, logically, the agreement, statements, default notice, correspondence common to the parties etc. You, at that stage can ask for inspection (copies of their docs). Theoretically, they cannot use any documents at trial not disclosed. You will also have to provide a list of documents upon which you intend to rely (not precedents, but actual docs - you probably won't have any other than a few letters) and provide inpection of any docs they want from you. So you see, the letters referred to above are only asking for that which you will be entitled to and some you are not. The letters request docs which relate to matters not central to the issues between the parties and are not proportionate to that in issue. The letters are a 'fishing expedition' and that will not be allowed by the court. Indeed they probably breach the rules (CPR) and be considered an attempt to cloud the 'true' issues. If the claimant does not disclose sufficient docs to prove its claim, they probably don't have them. You should at that stage write a short letter requesting the same and in default invite them to discontinue the action. You can make an application (N.244) to the court compelling the claimant to comply with disclosure and in default the claim be struck out. This is nuanced and not for this breif explanation. Do not send letters to the claimants solicitor, which you probably do not understand. Trust me, generally, they find the content amusing. The letters disclose a misconceived understanding of the Civil Procedure Rules and if they have the essential docs in their possession, they will string you along and hit you with a big bill for costs at trial, if the matter is on the fast/multi track. The profession is chuckling at a recent £60K order for costs against 2 claimants known on this site, who used versions of the docs and arguments regularly referred to herein. Some will know the case to which I refer.

What is the debt type? card, loan, overdraft etc. Who are the solicitors etc. I need more info. This in addition to Manchester 1 questions will help.

Service of the claim is good - see Pt. 6 CPR. Last known address is good service. You cannot argue that you informed them of change - they cannot be expected to cross reference all the post they receive! Having said that, you will need to argue all you can, but be careful what you say. It will be important that you can show you have made your application to set aside promptly i.e. within 2 weeks of the judgment coming to your attention. You will need to disclose a draft of any proposed defence and the same should disclose prospects of success. Do not over plead - stick to the facts and include any part 20 (counterclaim) you may have in a final section. Do not file any affidavit - it has no place in such an application. Any statement/defence filed should include a statement of truth as follows 'the contents of this statement/defence are true' and then you must sign beneath. The CPR is available to read on-line and is vey much self explanatory. It may take a couple of reads, but you will get there.

Sorry, but forget about the Pt 18 request and the CPR letter, at this time they serve no purpose. Start preparing your defence and Pt 20 claim (counterclaim for charges/PPI). Your problem will be that you do not appear to have a defence to the entire claim and so they may proceed to apply for summary judgment in relation to that part which you are unable to reasonably dispute. You will need to muddy the waters with the defence to avoid the above and get to the disclosure stage, whereupon they will have to show their hand (all the docs upon which they intend to rely). You will then find out if they have the agreement as they will have to disclose the same and you can then ask for a copy. Any competent solicitor will ignore the CPR and Pt 18 letters - they are what is known as 'noise' and are premature and indeed technically defective. I appreciate they have been prepared with best intentions, but just put the claimant on notice as to what your about. Far better to ambush after disclosure and sicken them, with a well informed and reasoned argument as to why they should 'drop dead', having wasted their time and clients money. Lets see the POC and we will prepare your defence and Pt.20 claim.

Stick with it. I do not believe they will produce the goods!!

Perhaps one way to deal is to pay the small claim and tell him to sod off when he asks for the balance. He will then be sued for negligence by his client for the balance you do not pay - he will soon be out of business, if he does it at scale (he wll be insured), because his indemnity insurers will get sick to death with the claims. This will take a big effort and he is playing a numbers game. Perhaps people should write to the OFT and complain about his clients (the claimants on the POC) as this is against OFT guidelines on debt collection. The clients will not know he is doing this and if the OFT investigate, they will see the problem is at scale.

linz2011, They will serve (send in the post) you with the list. If they do not, you will need to make application via N.244 for them to comply with the order. Sit on your hands for now and give them 7 days grace (beyond time provided) before taking further action. Just send your letter saying, 'I have no documents upon which you intend to rely or at all' and use that phrase, now.

Have read the thread. The claim, if your last payment date is correct, is statute barred. A matter is barred if no payment or acknowledgement made in the last six years. They cannot extend the limitation period by writing letters, regardless of content. Your matter has been stayed and they have been allowed 28 days to produce the docs they should have produced upon disclosure. As usual the DCA's use mediocre legal personnel. The judge should have made an 'unless' order. In other words if they do not produce, the matter is automatically struck out. Regardless, wait the 28 days and then make application on N.244 to strike out for failure to comply with the order. However, check the actual order when it arrives as it may be an unless order as indicated above. To be fair, if you had a solicitor today the matter would have been struck out or at least adjourned with a nice order of costs against them. There are lots of solicitors out there who will take these cases on a no win no fee basis, but you will have to look around to get the right one, as this is a nuanced area of the law. You will probably not need one now, as yours looks like a winner. Fingers crossed and good luck.

Forget about the CPR request. It means nothing. Just list, in section one of the N.265 all the docs upon which you intend to rely. I would hazard a guess you have none. Docs does not mean statutes or cases etc, but docs which are in your possession relevant to the action. If you have none, say so. You can send a letter to the claimants sols saying that rather than completing a blank form etc. Remember, it is for them to prove the claim. They also have to file a list of docs and supply copies of any docs you request in the list. They will list all the docs upon which they rely to prove the claim. It should include the agreement, default notice and statements at least. When you have the copies you request (ask for the lot), you will be in a position to consider the claim and whether they can prove it. If they do not produce a signed (by you) agreement - game over. Some of the other docs will allow you to formulate your case. If you intend to argue matters not currently in your defence, you will have to amend your defence or you may be barred from arguing the points. Everthing else is form filling, let them lead in that respect. you are in the end zone and it is now time for them to put up or lose. Play your hand to the end, but if they produce the goods you will need to settle to avoid hefty costs consequences. Don't bottle it now. Get the docs and then post again. I am new to this site and have helped a couple of people in last few days. I will duck in and out and not always available, but when you get the docs, someone here will be able to tell you if they are good paper or not. Keep in mind they must prove the claim. You have to prove nothing and probably cannot in any event - how do you prove a negative i.e. "I did not receive the default notice" etc.

CBS is Transcom. They do not need any docs in your case, they have a judgment. Unfortunatley, this time you can only win the battle. Good luck.

You should report any intances of this firm not suing for the full amount to the OFT and SRA. The conduct is outrageous and unbefitting. It is unlawful. They should bring all their clients claim at the same time and they know that. There is plenty of Court of Appeal and House of Lords cases to confirm this. What are they intending to do? Sue on multiple actions and collect costs each time. I suppose they are instructed by a DCA and work from the same address like lots of these 'solicitors'. Some of these firms (maybe not these) have DCA staff working in them, holding themselves out as being employed by the solicitors. Tell the court as well. This is oppressive.

sorry to say, but you are stuck with the original judgment. Had you had a period of non payment/contact for 6 years - there would have been an out. The N.244 should be sent asap. Send a copy to the solicitors tomorrow. Fax it if you can. You may be entitled to free court fees - form EX160 (speak to the court), but once the solicitor gets it they will consent.

Citizen B, It should be the Co-op not its solicitors. The defence I prepared (2 paragraphs) is all that is required. The first rule of pleading is to never use a sentence when one word will suffice. Default notices, Sec.78 requests etc are irrelevant, Dont show your cards at such an early stage. They will merely ensure that the amended POC answers all your points. Do not help them. Keep it simple. A long pleading does not make up for lack of content. I deal with this on a daily basis. For instance, you are asking for something in 10. which shows a lack of understanding of the CPR. Do not reveal weakness. Draft long and then compact as much as possible. Never refer to the solicitors failures. The failures are always those of the client (in this case the Co-op). Like a few others here, you have it, but need polishing. Keep it tight and you will frighten them!!

DJC, OK, fill it in on the screen then print it off. I do not have the form in front of me, but the following should allow you to fill it out. There is a box top left. The hearing time is 10 mins, the claimant is to be served and the level of judge is District. Most of the form is self explanatory. You as the defendant are applying to strike out the claimants claim. The reason for the application is the action is an abuse of process. Now tick box C and overleaf type in the following: The claimants action relates to a debt regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant is a purchaser of delinquent debt. The originator of the debt (from whom the claimant purchased) was . The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action against the defendant and/or lacks particularity so as to allow the defendant to be aware of the case he will have to meet at trial. More importantly, the originator previously issued proceedings based upon the regulated agreement in 1993 under case number out of the . Annexed hereto is a true copy of the final judgment order in the 1993 action. Having regard to the above the claimants action is an abuse of the process and the defendant requests the court to strike out the action and award such costs as deemed appropriate. The defendant contends that the claimant has no right to issue this action which is substantivley the same as the 1993 action. It is apparent that the claimant purchased a debt not knowing proceedings had previously been conducted in relation to the same. If the claimant was so aware, then the defendant contends that the conduct of the claimant and/or the claimants solicitors is unnaceptable. In all the circumstances the defendant requests an order as asked. You only then need to sign the document and file 3 copies with the court. I suggest you send a copy to the solicitors with the following letter: I enclose copy application filed with the court and invite your consent. In the absence of consent, I look forward to you explaining the actions of your client and/or your actions to the District Judge hearing the application. The above will do the business. With regard to escaping liability under the 1993 judgment, how long have you been making payments? Why have they never attempted to securitise the debt (charging order) and to whom are you making the payments? PT2537, No worries. If you really want to put the wind up em' it is important to keep things tight. Never show your hand or plead in correspondence. I agree, generally you will be given latitude by the judges, but you cannot rely upon the same and always conduct matters as if you will not. The judiciary are becoming tired of seeing timewasting letters in court proceedings which have little relevance to issues between the parties. You get away with it because the DCA's employ less than talented solicitors who do the work for little money - pay peanuts, get monkeys etc. You dont need to rely upon indulgence from the court. I dare say you appear to have far more talent than the majority of DCA lawyers. Keep at it!!

DJC, thats great news. Now do as I say and you will win. If you do it yourself, you need an N.244 from the HMC website (in forms section). I will post later with detail of how to complete the form and what to say in section C. This is a total turkey shoot and you cannot fail - really. The rules/law totally on your side.

PT2537, Sorry if I have upset you, but any local solicitor will take this on at no cost and be happy to recover inter-parties costs as his fee. These people need advice with action in mind - not misconceived letters which are generally laughed at by lawyers (trust me I know). For every 'battle' win as a result of the letters, there are hundreds who get tied up in knots as a consequence of same (again, I know) and end up in a worse situation. Many people not posting, use the letters and they are being pounded out there in the real world. I have come onto this site as a result of making capital out of the advice people receive here. It needs to be put right and people told how to conduct litigation to best advantage. I have been in court and seen people admonished for using letters and defences they did not understand and using misconceived understanding legal precedents - obtained from people posting herein. If it is felt I should post no longer - then so be it!

Hi DJC, The 'CPR request' is of no effect. It is a letter that is totally irrelevant in the circumstances. I have given you advice that will result in success, probably without a hearing - they will receive the application and consent to the same of that I am confident. Alternativley, you can play about with letters which have no legal basis and they will probably get judgment and you'll be paying to set aside. Take definitive action and win. Do it tomorrow and without further delay.

Have you a copy of the 1993 judgment order? If so, make application to strike out the current proceedins and attach a copy of the order to the N.244 application form. The court has already ajudicated on the issues and you have a defence of estoppel if the court fails to grant the application. Do not send any more letters to the solicitors which are headed 'part 18 request' etc. The letters have no basis in law and are simply wrong, premature and illconceived. All these issues (defective pleadings) are best dealt with under CPR Pt. 3 applications. You have excellent prospects of success with the current proceedings and any attempt to enforce the 15 year old judgment may also fail, although that is a little more nuanced. I do not have the time to advise in full, but I suggest you seek advice from a litigation solicitor and request they make the application to strike out for abuse of process - they will acheive an order for costs when you win, against the claimant and therefore should be willing to deal on a no win no fee basis (conditional fee agreement). Please do not attempt to do this yourself. The info on this site is very general and much is wrong/misconcieved (the silly letters being a prime example). This is nuanced and needs a little thought. I have no problem with you printing this and showing to your solicitor. They will understand, if they do not, sack them and find one who does.

Sorry for not responding earlier, but I have been away on business. A defence should be deal with the claimants pleading and not be complicated and long in these matters. It should not contain references to cases etc. Do not forget you may have to argue that which is contained in your defence and so you need to understand that to which you are endorsing a statement of truth. The case of Dimond v lovell is not on all fours with this case. Until the claimant pleads in an appropriate manner, you should not reveal all your 'cards'. I suggest a defence as follows:- 1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleadindg in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system). 2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectivley or at all. The defendant is embarassed. The above is all you need to place in the defence. You should write to the claimants solicitors as follows:- ' Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court. Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead yor clients case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be transferred to my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event. In those circumstances you should plead in accordance with the CPR rather than the Northampton County Court regime. Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'. I hope this helps and is understood. I did not want to appear 'complicated' and apologise. I have been reprimanded by persons for not explaining the 'full story' behind my suggestions. Some of those persons are suggesting you rely upon precedents to help in your case. I doubt you have read those precedents or the persons suggesting the same have done so. If they have they have not understood the same (now thats complicated). There is very little effective meaningful precedent in theses matters and you need to rely upon the CCA 1974. There is plenty of decent advice on this site, the difficulty is sorting the wood for the trees.

Sorry for delay. The £400 is an estimate of the claimants costs which would be awarded against you, if your application to set aside the judgment failed. Costs follow the event in such circumstances. Not enough attention is paid to the consequences of costs in the advice provided by various individuals on this site. I'm sorry, but you have missed your chance in this case. The application to set aside should have been made as soon as you became aware of the judgment. Payment and delay works against you in this matter. Any application has little chance of success. Yould could speak with O2, but I do not believe they will assist - why would they? You should seek a satisfaction notice and have an addendum added to the CRA records.

Its a charge card. If they do not produce the agreement, they can still prove the claim - I assume you paid at some stage? There will be ample evidence to prove the agreement between you. Do not file the defence suggested earlier! What is the relevance of a default notice in this case? Requesting disclosure in the defence is a nonsense. Making application pursuant to part 16 in the defence is also a nonsense. You make applications on notice via an N.244, suported by evidence. If you intend to make a claim for unfair penalty charges, file a part 20 claim. I do not know the nature of your defence to the substantive claim, but that which has been suggested, is smoke and mirrors and will merely delay the inevitable. File it and you will be met with an application for summary judgment.

The particulars are a joke and a firm of solicitors has no business filing/serving the same. No account number, no date of agreement and no indication of the nature of agreement (whether fixed or revolving credit etc). Forget the silly letters. Make an immediate application pursuant to Part 3 CPR to strike out and in the alternative, clarification of the particulars, which are clearly an abuse of the process. Whoever prepared the POC should be ashamed. It is a disgrace!! Make the application, be an aggressive litigator and use the rules to your advantage. They will laugh at a silly letter, requesting documents, some of which have no relevance to the action and form a request for specific disclosure. The letter looks like a DPA 1998 request and has been drafted with little regard to a tactical battle in litigation, in that it attempts to light the fuse of an empty firework - it will fizzle and thats it!!

All the letters are noise and form a premature request for specific disclosure. Indeed, some of the docs requested are irrelevant to the issues between the parties and the request for the same is an abuse of the process. You need to make application pursuant to CPR part 3. Only make the application if you require info to allow you to plead appropriatley. The application and action will be transferred to your local court. The short form POC filed by the claimant at Northampton CC will be the usual innapropriate pleading and a part 3 application will succeed. Forget the silly amature letters and take effective action. Read the rules and understand. You will win through and they will have to produce the goods upon disclosure.

You have no grounds to set aside. You have paid in accordance with the order. You can hardly pay and thereafter argue the judgment was defective. In any event, the judgment was not defective (consider CPR Part 6 - service at last known address). Making application to set aside will result in an order for costs, which will be subject to summarry assessment and will cost c.£400 + vat.