March 2007. GIS

Hi everyone I have had a quick look round but can't seem to find a thread to answer my question, so i hope someone can help me!! I requested a CCA for my loan with HSBC in June of this year, after numerous letters and phone calls from then which i state that they haven't complied with my CCA reques I finally get one from them 2 days ago!!!!! Anyway, i applied for this loan online and the money was in my account (HSBC) the same day or next day i seem to remember! They have sent me about 5 sheets with all the terms etc on, but the signature is a tick in a box, (because i did it online) and the signature for the DD is a tick in a box. My question is: Is this all they need? Did they have to send me something in post for me to physically sign or not? I know its different for online applications but not sure how different. I will post it up here when i get chance to scan it in, but for now could someone point me in the right direction of what the differences for online applications are? Also what about the prescribed terms not being on same page as the 'tick'. Thanks for your help GIS

WOW! Thanks a lot for the the rapid response! That looks great! I will send it off tomorrow! GIS

Hi I woud just like a bit of advice as to how I respond to a letter from citi cards! I requested a CCA for my husband and this is what they have sent back. I wil have to type it as i haven't got access to a scanner today. Dear Mr X Re: Acc number Thankyou for your recent request for information. We regret to inform you that section 78 CCA 1974 does not require CitiFinancial to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement as you appear to believe. It requires CitiFinancial to provide you with a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. The obligation to provide you with that document is fulfilled by the provision of the terms and conditions, which are supplied to customers upon reissue or issue of their card, being printed on the card carrier. We enclose a copy of the terms and conditions for your account. This is an industry standard document and conforms to the Regulations. We set out below a summary of the same for your information. 180 Power to prescribe form etc of copies (1) Regulations may be made as to the form and content of documents to be issued as copies of any executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in this Act, and may in particular - (a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in any copy, and contain requirements to ensure thats such information is clearly brought to the attention of a reader of the copy; (b) authorise the omission from a copy of certain material contained in the original, or the inclusion of such material in condensed form. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 make it clear at Reg 3 that the "copy executed agreement" is not required to be an exact replica of the original agreement per se but an extract since it is allowed to omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature. Should you have any questions please fell free to cal me on 0800 xxx xxx, or write to me at : Yours sincerely Data Request Team I don't totally understand it, but what i gather is they don't have to send me a true copy of the original agreement, and they haven't, they have just sent generic terms with the above letter, not tome specifically. I also take this to mean that they DON'T HAVE A TRUE COPY as if they did they would just send that wouldn't they? Any help as to what i write back? I've had a look around and not seen anything similar on the threads. GIS

Hi everyone I haven't posted on here for a while. I came on a few months ago for CCA advice. I have requested CCA's for a few of mine and my husbands credit cards and loans. They are all past the 12 and 30 days mark. Some have just ignored our request and keep demanding money!! Some have sent a valid CCA (both our eggs and Northern Rock loan) for which we have negotiated a reduced payment plan. An some CCA are invalid. I just want to know where I go from here. The egg and northern rock are ok at the mo, even though they have defaulted us for not paying, when we are paying just reduced amounts. The others I have written to them to say they have ignored my request or sent an invalid CCA and they insist that it is valid and what they have sent is ok as they do not have to send an exact copy it can have emissions especially if it has been updated since the original one was sent. They quote all types of legislation and to be honest i am not sure whther what they say is true or what people on here say is true? Both sides make sense when you read relevant sections of the legislation. I have been ignoring phone calls and letter since, as i find i am just repeating myself. A few have now sent a few letters saying they are willing to accept a reduced full and final settlement but they don't say how much and they ask me to phone to discuss this. I do not want to phone. I would like to know how much they are offering as I would try and get some money from my parents to get them paid off once and for all. OR how much do you think i should offer them? considering their CCA's are a pile of cr@p or non existent. If I wasn't worried about my credit file i would just leave them all till they took me to court but I would like to do full and final settlements for most of them so i can start repairing my credit file. I suppose I just want a bit of reassurance and guidance if any of you will oblige? The constant phone calls and letters are now getting me down. Thanks Amanda

Hi everyone I received a ltter replying to my letter saying the CCA is illegible and requesting a legible copy, they are not sending me anything else!! I have posted it below. Image of mbna cca reply - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Also I have received a default notice now. Could someone look at it and see if it is correct. They shouldn't be able to issue a default notice until they comply with my request should they? Image of mbna default1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting What do i do in response to both their letters? reply saying they can't issue a default yet or just ignore them now until they take me to court? Thanks GIS

Hi everyone We have had a letter form goldfish in reply to our letter suggesting the CCA is unenforceable. They are also still phoning and writing requesting payment and threatening a default. I have posted thier reply below. What do I do now? Just sit tight and let them take us to court? Thanks GIS Image of goldfish cca reply1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Image of goldfish cca reply2 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Hi everyone I have recieved a reply back to the letter i sent about the CCA being unenforceable. I have attached it below. What do I do now? Just sit tight and let them take me to court?? GIS Image of cap1 cca reply1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Image of cap1 cca reply2 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I say it has all thos things on the back ie the 'prescribed terms' but i can't actually read it properly, i can make out odd words and know they are part of sentences that i have read on my other cca's. I genuinely can't read it all and it is a really bad copy!

Hi I don't know. It has my signature on it on the front. It has the sentence that relates to the credit limit on the back and the apr and something about payments. BUT there is nothing to link the front and back, AND on the front there are 2 scissors so it looks a bit like a cut and paste job so I was confident they hadn't got the original was IF it was enforceable but they made me lose my confidence in that phone call, which is their aim!!

Hi Thanks! I don't know why i spoke to him! He caught me off guard with the mobile number! I am so annoyed with myself for speaking to them! I usually do just say can you put everything in writing!! I know that is exactly what they wanted, to get me scared like that! Thanks for replying!

Hi I am shaking!! I have just had a rather irate conversation with a guy from MBNA! He phoned on my mobile from a mobile number and asked if i was "my name" and i said yes and he proceeded to tell me they had my letter under section 78 and he is required to tell me unless i pay ££ now he is passing it to his legal team to start litigation and then asked if i was a home owner, i said yes (is he just trying to scare me here?). There was no questions for data protection or anything!! the same guy phoned me the other day and didn't ask any security questions either but that was before they had received my reply that the cca was illegible. I stated that he couldn't start litigation while the account was in dispute because the ca they sent was illegible. He asked if i was willing to pay now and i said no not until you send me a valid cca that i can actually read. He said they had done that, he asked if i had paid the £1 for it and i said yes of course and he said that in my last letter stating the cca was illegible that i hadn't sent the cca back!!! i said no i didn't but you have obviously got a copy of it there! He said can i ask you to hold on to that to prove in court what we have sent you a valid legible cca, i said of course i will hold onto it to prove it is illegible! I then said if this goes to court then you would need the original cca and i have asked politely in a letter for a photocopy straight from the original so i can read it properly so why not just send me a copy straight from the original. He said they had, i said no it was obviously scanned it on a computer. He then said he is not getting into a conversation about it anymore unless i pay and i said oh i have to listen to you but you won't listen to me. he said he can't get into a discussion about it. I said well if you can't send me a better copy of the cca then you had better take me to court then, he said the file is being passed to their legal team for litigation TODAY!!! I asked if anyone was going to replying to my letter in writing and he said the legal team will. I AM VERY SCARED NOW!!! I don't mind admitting it!! I mean the cca does look valid but there are some dodgy things about it (see above) so i really don't think they have the original, but why would the take me to court if they haven't got the original? it doesn't make sense!! Am i right in thinking if they take me to court and show up with the original it will look bad on them for not cooperating with me and sending me a good copy of the original so i would then pay them and not waste the courts time? This seems to have progressed a lot quicker than others on this site!! I have had threatening letters as such yet. Just one threatening to default me.

Hi I today received this CCA from MBNA for a virgin credit card. They went into default on 3rd July, so its a bit late. They sent it printed on one piece of paper the first bit on one side and the second bit on the opposite side (obviously an attempt at making me believe this was originally two sides of the same document!). Although on the suface I think this is probably enforceable, having the prescribed terms etc, BUT it is very illedgible which makes me think they have not photocopied it from the original. Also on the front page you will see there is a pair of scissors above the section saying please sign this form and return to us. then there is a section with virgin address details and ANOTHER pair of scissors!! I have never seen anything like this before and it really makes me think they have 'hashed' this together in an attempt at making an enforecable agreement! The signature of theirs also looks like it has been added at any time as there is no specific section and no date with it. Also it is obviously the pre contractual agreement as it says, please issue a virgin credit card to me. I read on here somewhere that just the fact that this is illedgible makes it unenforceable, is this true? Also there is nothing linking the two side from what i can see. Could someone please take a look at it and maybe point me in the right direction for a letter asking them to resend one that i can actually read. They also sent with it a few pages of the current terms and conditions as the charges are £12. On the front of these at the top it says here is a copy of your credit card agreement. I really feel confident that they haven't got the original from what they have sent but from what i have read on here i don't expect them to send anything else and that they will keep on harassing me until the matter goes to court. Is there any way I can demand to see the original before it gets that far? Thanks for any help!! GIS http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=mbna23rdJulycca.jpg http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=mbna23Julycca2.jpg

Thanks Creditcardmug, I will check tomorrow about Barclays although they are not obviously connected to any of my other creditors, i realise that they may be without me even knowing! I will send an S.A.R to HSBC asap! Didn't want to start that yet but looks like I have no choice if I want to defend myself against these guys!!

Hi Thanks for your help. Yes i have just read the t&c's on their website! I have another account with Barclays so I am going to use that from now on!! Only problem is, I cab't close the HSBC account as I can't pay the £2000 overdraft! I will just have to leave it stagnant for a while until I can deal with it. I will def claom back all the unlawful charges but it will prob only be around £600 (rough guess). If I start the reclaim for these charges i believe it puts the account into dispute. Does that mean HSBC can't ask me to pay the whole overdraft amount until the claims are sorted? If this is so at least it gives me a bit of time too get back on my feet!!

Hi I am in such a stress!! Basically last month I wrote to all my creditors telling them i couldn't pay the minimum payments anymore what with one thing and the other and I cancelled all my direct debits so money would stop 'flying' out of my account and I could get back to an even keel. I contacted payplan and they gave me template letters to write to my creditors. I also sent a cca request to each of them in case things got a bit heated!! Well now they have!! My current account is with HSBC, with whom I have an unsecured loan and credit card. I wrote to them about a month ago with the letters and they wrote back asking for my income and expenditure so i wrote back with that straight away and on payplans advice said that i was only able to make token payments of £1 until my circumstances change. I listed all my other creditors on there too. I have heard on this site that HSBC just sometimes ignore the cancellation of one of their own direct debits. They haven't done this but they have taken out 75% of the loan payment!! There wasn't enough in on the actual day of the payment (29th) but today my husband transfered some money into my account for me to get out in cash (for food and other bills etc) so i did and then i get home from work and went on internet banking to see that now i am majorly over my overdraft because as soon as hsbc saw money go in they decided to just nab £234 of it!!!!! They haven't written back to me to say £1 isn't good anough and come to a different arrangement they just took it out!! CAN THEY DO THIS? I don't know you see as I have asked for the CCA for the loan (i would be able to then check the t&c's) but they haven't bothered to send me that either and are now in default!! I can't believe the cheek of them! I am now going to get charged for something i didn't agree to going out of my account! I think they haven't got a valid CCA and are trying to get as much as they can out of me before admitting it!! Can i get them to put the money back in? I was trying to be good and go about this in the right way and negotiate lower payments with them, i just can't believe they can do this! I haven't even paid my mortgage yet and a payday uk loan of £100 is going to go out of that account on the 18th (which i was going to put in a few days before) but if i do that now it will not even cover the amount that is over the overdraft and the payday uk loan payment will bounce and i will get charged heavily for that!! I am sooo annoyed!! Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=GoldfishReply.jpg http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=GoldfishAccountInfoStatement.jpg http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=GoldfishSupposedagreementfr.jpg http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=Goldfishsupposedagreementbk.jpg

Hi I recently sent out a CCA request to Goldfish on behalf of my OH. He received the below in the post this morning! Its SHOCKING!! The letter says they have sent the executed agreement and statement of account and original application form and current terms & conditions. All their is is the statement of account and a letter that was sent to my OH VERY recently when we had paid a lump sum off the card and they had decreased the limit to what was left on it!! It has the current terms & conditions and activation number for the replacement card. It has our NEW address on it (we only moved here 2 years ago!) and he has had the card for about 8 years!! 2 addresses ago!! And it says the new limit at the top which like i say was only decreased at the beginning of this year! Also it isn't signed!! And wouldn't have been as IT ISN'T THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT!! I actually laughed when i saw it! Its ridiculous and on the statement and the letter thay have the cheek to call this the executed agreement! Do they think we are that stupid--REALLY? OH said they were taken over by Barclays and probably haven't got a clue where the original signed agreement is. I am just confused as to what to do now. I feel like writing them a bemused letter asking them if they had mistakenly left the 'executed agreement' out of the envelope!! Do i write a letter saying it is unenforcable etc etc or do i give them another chance to send it first? Thanks

hahaha

Pt2537 can I ask you to take a look at my MBNA thread please? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148736-me-global-advantedge-virgin.html#post1588410 I am worried about not replying to them but i have been advised to just 'sit tight'. Thanks.

Hi Yes i have looked at a fair few capital one threads and seen her name a lot! They sent a leaflet with the current t&c's but thats it!

Hi Everyone I am a relatively new member and noticed this thread! I hope you are all still around and would like to know how you got on with your battles! I sent Global Vantedge a cca request (for my virgin mbna credit card) and MBNA sent me a letter saying they 'thanks for you payent but can't cash it as its not made payable to MBNA!) Stalling tactics methinks as, as far as i am aware i am entitled to make the postal order payable to the dca. My thread is: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148736-me-global-advantedge-virgin.html?highlight=global+advantedge What do you think?

Hi Thanks so much! I will get on with the letter tomorrow! Your help is most appreciated.

Hi I sent a CCA request to capital one and they have sent me this back. A letter which looks like everyone elses on here! And an application form. It has my signature but no prescribed terms. I take it this is totaly uneforceable? What do I do now? Write back saying they are in default and ask agin or just say it is uneforceable? If someone could point me in the right direction for the correct letter to send i would be very greatful!! Image of Capital 1 front - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Image of Capital 1 back - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Image of capital 1 application - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Thankyou!! You see thats why this site is great! I would have catered to their every whim!