Good luck today shakespeare

Hi sparty Just wondering if you may be able to claim back what you have paid to this DCA. Regards SC

Hi bh Have just read through your thread. Any update? I saw Restons off about 12 months ago, they discontinued!! Regards SC

Hi GhostDebt Re CL Finance statement. Will probably just ignore this. My strategy for the last 12 months has been to ignore (and file) all correspondence from DCA's. CL has been the only DCA to issue proceedings. Regards SC

Hi GhostDebt I have also recently received a statement from CL Finance including costs. Brief summary CL Finance / HC issued an N1 against me. Sent CPR 31.14 request to HC – No response Issued N244 for delayed Defence and Unless Order for supplying documents (plus costs if they do not comply) Still no response from HC Court strikes out claim HC send cheque for my costs Statement from CL now has Court and Solicitors Fees and the Costs paid to me all added on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards SC

Hi Tonks Following your thread with interest. Have recently received my first letter from ****. Good luck Regards SC

Hi LB145 Following your thread with interest. I too have recently received the same letter and 2 x T&C from Lloyds in response to my CCA request. Also the same letter from **** and now the same letter from MHA has just arrived. If you look at the small print at the bottom of the MHA letter you will see MHA is a trading name of Lloyds. You will also see all letters from Lloyds TSB (credit card statements), **** and MHA all have the same PO Box 487, Brighton return address on the back of the envelopes. Regards SC

Have spent the last week reading this amazing thread and have at last got to the end. I wish Fred the best of luck and can not see how he can possible lose with all the help here. With regard to the VAT issue it is my understanding that Insurance Companies are unable to reclaim VAT, and this is the reason they always deduct VAT from claims if the Policyholder is registered. Regards SC

Hi reggie As has been previously stated an Invalid DN should be a complete defence, and as stated by the Judge in my case is FATAL to the claim. (Restons discontinued). The two Solicitors you have seen may not be fully au fait with the CCA1974, so their opinions could be very misleading. Regards SC

Good luck for today PF Regards SC

See also from post 363 on, on zhanzhibar's thread. Very very good news!!!! SC

Hi MM Thought that might be the case with the ‘offer’ they made. If the DN is defective you should have a cast iron case and this is probably the easiest weapon to use against Optima. They must surely realise their case is weak, and is the reason for their offer. Have you seen posts 314 and 325 by BRW on zhanzhibar’s thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/137617-zhanzhibar-amex-aic-newman-6.html#post2177953 You can also counterclaim for unlawful rescission of contract, £1000 I believe. Regards SC

Hi PF This is what x20 posted about costs after Discontinuance. Re: arrow global receivables/cope's solicitors Post No. 89 I have prepared a draft bill of costs for detailed assessment and draft notice of commencement. Both are attached in pdf format. In drawing the bill I have tried to keep it as uncomplicated as possible whilst seeking to demonstrate how to maximise the amount which might be allowed. The documents may be of general application in litigation to include for example, dealing with a costs claim after successfully obtaining an order setting aside a Statutory Demand, after making all such necessary modifications to suit. The bill begins with a narrative dealing with the nature of the case and the complexity of it as I imagined it may have appeared to the LiP. My imagination should not be treated as a statement of how the complexity in truth appeared to the LiP. Next is a chronological statement of the steps taken in the case as they will appear on the court file. I have not bothered to go through the entire thread to establish what occurred on what day. The LiP will have to do that. I have included provision for time spent which has been charged at an hourly rate of £9.25 in accordance with The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. I can not stress enough that where time is included this is only a statement of time for the purpose of demonstrating how the figures would appear in the bill. My statement of time is not an estimate of time. Only the LiP can say how much time was spent and my statement of time may be an under- statement or an over-statement, I would not know. It is worth pointing out however that the court will recognise that a LiP will most likely spend more time in a case than a solicitor. The relevant Rule is CPR 48.6 with guidance appearing in The Supreme Court Costs Office Guide (COG) Practice Direction at CPR PD 48 COG 22.4 and .5. The question for the Judge considering the bill is if this case had been conducted by a solicitor, what would that solicitor’s reasonable total charge have been for doing that work? Having arrived at that hypothetical figure, the costs judge will assess the bill but disallow whatever the total bill comes to from exceeding two-thirds of the hypothetical figure. It seems to me the hypothetical solicitor may have spent say 6 hours dealing with all the work set out in the bill from beginning to end. At an average charge of £150.00 per hour, that produces a hypothetical figure of £900.00. In other words therefore, if the Judge held my view about what the hypothetical solicitor may have charged, the amount to be allowed to the LiP ought not to exceed £600.00. As you will see, my draft works out at £573.50. What to do Next Complete the bill adapting the narrative to your personal experience in terms of actual work done and actual time spent. Feel free to add to it where I have not imagined work which you actually did. Insert the dates and sign and date the bill. Next complete Form N252 available from the HMCS website here. You will ned to complete the court and party details in the box on the RHS. The draft N242 I have completed gives the position as if my figures were used. Where the total used in the bill is to be different, put that figure in the first figure box where N252 says: ‘The bill totals £xxx.xx’. (figure [1]) Next, add £300.00 to figure [1] and put whatever this figure in the next box where N252 says: the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £xxx.xx). (figure [2]). Next insert a date in the box before which is written: ‘You must serve your points of dispute by’. This date will be a date being not less than 21 days after the date on which your opponent receives the bill and the N252. In practice, add 25 days to the date on which you post the bill out to your opponent. If that date should fall on a Saturday or Sunday, insert the date for the following Monday. Next fill out the box which provides a name and address at which the opposition may deliver any response to the bill of costs. The response will be entitled ‘Points of Dispute’. I don’t imagine one will arrive and if one does, how to deal with it will be dealt with in a later advice. Next, leave the box beginning: ‘I certify that I have also served’ blank Next, at the very end of the bill is a third figure box before which is written ‘If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £’ . In this box take the figure [1] and add £45.00 to it. This is the figure which goes in this box (figure [3]). Print the N252 off, sign and date it. Next, send the bill and the N252 off to the opposition’s solicitor. After Having Sent the Bill and N252. Make a note when the 25 days will be up. I would expect the opposition to make contact with you in an attempt to settle the question of your costs. So as to avoid hassle and heartache, I would be prepared to settle at anything which came to about one third rather than two thirds of the hypothetical solicitor’s bill. On my example, that would be around £300.00 plus the court fee. You may want to settle at something less just to be shot of it. If any offer comes in which is wildly below £300.00 post to this site for advice. I would imagine the opposition will be very keen to settle since objecting will tie them into expense they will wish to avoid and any savings will soon be wiped out by employing a solicitor to deal with the objections. When the cheque comes in, make a donation to CAG. If you have not heard from the opposition by when the 25 days are up you will be entitled to apply to the court for a default costs certificate. When that moment arrives, post here. Any queries, just ask. x20 Attached FilesDraft LiP bill of costs for detailed assessment.pdf (56.6 KB, 157 views)Draft Notice of Commencement.pdf (29.9 KB, 111 views) There's also more usfull info in other posts on this thread. Regards SC

Hi miss muppet And congratulations, very well done. I am so pleased my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/145452-stayingcalm-abbey-no-cca.html has been of some assistance to you. Being my first case I learnt so much from pt and sx20. Anyway, good luck with your case, if Optima Legal have any sense they will discontinue before this gets too much further. Regards SC

Hi AG Very well done. Great result. And thanks for the detailed report of the proceedings. Regards SC

Thanks everyone We are away for a short break to see our daughter at a holiday cottage from early Thursday morning :D, so wont get any post now until at least Sunday No internet either, so see you all later. Regards SC

Hi shammy This is looking very good for you. My Unless Order has just expired with no response. It is on the end of x20’s thread, page 10. I received my N1 in October 08 and followed x20’s advice with an N244 for an Unless Order and did not file a Defence. Your way seems to have worked out much quicker. Would it be possible for you to post what you used as your Defence? Here’s hoping you don’t get a response either. Regards SC

Hi all RE UNLESS ORDER I phoned the Court yesterday as advised on here and was told that there was a diary entry to check my file and then they would automatically issue an order to strike out the claim. Due to work load this is not always done on the date the Unless Order expires and could take a week or so. However, as I had now phoned and she has checked my file, she said it would be done straight away. So it’s looking good, fingers crossed. Just waiting for the postman now. Regards SC

Hi mitz I do hope you got on OK today, only just found your thread. Please let us know, good (or not so good), there’s plenty of help on here. Lots of us have defeated Restons now, my case took 6 months from N1 to Notice of Discontinuance. Regards SC

Hi Suzie This thread has all the info http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html I have just gone through the process right at the end of the thread (page 10) Good luck Regards SC

Hi all UPDATE CPR 31.14 REQUEST to N244 APPLICATION HEARING to COURT ORDER I used the CPR 31.14 request letter detailed in this thread in response to a N1 claim from Northampton CCBC, for a Credit Card debt assigned absolutely to a DCA. The POC mentioned the Agreement, the Assignment and the Default Notice so I requested the Solicitors to disclosure all of these documents. Solicitors replied saying that they are not obliged to provide the information requested, and that the POC is sufficiently detailed. Following X20’s advice I then filed an application using N244. HISTORY October 2008…..N1 from Northampton CCBC November 08…..Acknowledged service on line November 08…..CPR 31.14 Request to Solicitors by Special Delivery allowing 7 days to reply. November 08…..Reply from Solicitors ‘we are not obliged to provide……’ November 08…..N244 Application to extend time of service of Defence + Unless Draft Order + £75 to Northampton by SD. November 08…..Letter from Court, fee should be £40, balance to be refunded. November 08…..Phoned Court. Application to be referred to a District Judge at Northampton. A ‘Bar’ has been put on case which means that Judgement can not be entered until the Judge has ruled on the Application. December 08……Court Order from Northampton CC 1. The Application to extend the time to file a defence must be heard on notice to the Claimant. Transfer to the Defendant’s local court. 2. Any application for Judgment in default shall be Stayed pending the outcome of this application. February 2009…..Court Order from local court. Upon considering the Court file an Application Hearing will take place in March March 2009…..Application Hearing at local court. Claimant did not turn up. Unless by 4pm on (14 days hence) the Claimant complies with a request made by the Defendant on xxxxxxx pursuant to CPR 31.14 by the provision to the Defendant of documents mentioned in the POC, namely (1) the agreement (2) the assignment and (3) the Default Notice then: 1. The claim shall stand struck out without further order of the court. 2. The Claimant shall pay the Defendant his costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of the Litigants in Person (costs and expenses) Act 1975. 3. In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order, the Defendant shall file and serve a Defence by 4pm on xxxxxxxx. 4. In any event the Claimant shall pay the Defendant’s costs of this application in the sum of £150. RESULT THE CLAIMANT HAS NOT COMPLIED BY THE DATE STATED. But what do I do now? How does the Strike Out work? Do I have to inform the court, does the court have to write to the Claimant? Regards SC

Hi all The Judge said, as he was not sure how long the back log was for typing up the order, the 14 days would start from when it was actually sent out. Then, if the Claimants produce all the docs, I would have a further 21 days to enter a Defence. Regards sc

Hi CB And all others for your support. Sorry for slow reply, didn’t realise you were all following as there were no responses to my previous postings. Anyway, this is a new claim from another CC now passed to a DCA. Do not want to reveal too much at the moment, but will start a new thread as and when I need assistance. Was updating this thread as I am following the CPR 31.14 route as advised by x20, and have not found much information on any other threads regarding this, now we seem to have lost x20. Thought it was too good to be true with all the fantastic advice that he gave. The other side did not turn up. The Judge agreed my application for an Unless Order for a Strike Out if they do not supply the docs requested within 14 days of the date of the order sent by the Court. And if they do supply, 21 days to enter my Defence. He also agreed the costs. However, he crossed out the part about ‘the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant’, as he didn’t seem to think this was correct. Not sure if this is because I have not yet entered a Defence. It was the same Judge as was dealing with my case with Restons, and he asked if I had heard any more from them, which I have not. Regards sc

Hi pf Re Termination. This is what x20 had to say on my thread with my battle with Restons Re: StayingCalm vs Abbey with no CCA -----by x20 -----5-11-08----- Link231 SC, I wouldn't bother responding to the latest email. I would take all your papers to the court hearing. If the case was decided in your favour that would be the end of it and the claimant could not bring a second set of proceedings on the 'res judicata' rule. If the other side discontinued the proceedings and then sought to begin second proceedings they would need the court's permission under CPR 38.7. The Judge's agreement is not a pre-requisite for the other side to deliver a second DN. It is entirely a matter for them and the court will not give or refuse to give permission to serve a second DN. What I would say is that if the other side served a second DN and then sought to rely on it in the proceedings they would need to amend their claim so as to make reference to it. However, and this is what is causing the other side to prevaricate in serving a second DN, because, if a second DN was relied upon, the date of service of it would post-date the date on which they terminated the agreement and the date upon which they began the proceedings. In short the essential ingredients of a cause of action (ie service of a valid default notice followed by a failure to comply with it on a day prior to the beginning of proceedings) would be lacking. You have to get your horse before your cart. Whether a DN is defective is a question of fact. The termination of an agreement by the creditor occurs where the creditor does something which would be consistent with his termination of it. Serving a notice of termination is one example (An 'express' example). Demanding any of those things which might only be demanded if an effective DN had been served followed by non-compliance (whether or not the DN was truly effective in law) would be an 'implied' example as would commencing proceedings for any of those things. x20 Re: StayingCalm vs Abbey with no CCA -----by sc Thanks x20 Would a 'Formal Demand' for the outstanding balance on an account also be an 'express' example of termination? (not applicable to this thead) By 'implied' I assume this is because it is not actually mentioned in the CCA 1974. If this is the case, and the Judge can not see it in black and white, will he/she maybe not agree that the agreement has been terminated? If by chance the other side does not turn up, am I able to refer to the recent correspondence between Restons and myself. Most, but not all, Restons letters are written 'Without Prejudice', am I allowed to mention these, or am I not allowed to refer to them at all. Sorry for so many questions sc Re: StayingCalm vs Abbey with no CCA -----by x20 SC A Formal Demand may be an implied example. Whether a termination may be implied or an express termination has nothing to do with CCA 1974. The test is whether the fact of termination is clear on the face of the document with 'Notice of Termination' or 'We hereby Terminate' or some such similar series of words clearly demonstrating termination. An implied termination would occur where there was no previous express termination but there is evidence of an act or document (or both or multiple acts and documents) from which the fact of termination may be inferred. The question whether an agreement has been terminated is a question of fact to be decided by the Judge. Either it has been terminated or it hasn't. Demanding full payment on a credit card where the debtor may repay just a minimal sum monthly would be consistent with termination. Demanding the return of goods let under a HP agreement would be consistent with termination. Suing for either of these would be consistent with termination. If the Judge decided a creditor had not terminated then the agreement would be a current agreement. Taking proceedings to enforce an agreement is inconsistent with the agreement being 'current'. I find it hard to conceive of a situation where a creditor might sue his debtor whilst within a contractual relationship with him. So it seems to me that a finding the agreement had not been terminated would result in the claim being rejected. If the other side failed to turn up I'd show the DJ the dodgy DN and invite the DJ to conclude the Claimant's absence at court plus poor prospects demonstrated by the dodgy DN constituted sufficient cause to strike the claim out. You will not be allowed to refer to 'without prejudice' correspondence. Good luck today. Let us know how you got on. x20 Re: StayingCalm vs Abbey with no CCA by -----pt2537 A creditor may sue while an agreement is still live, the provision for this is where the agreement is improperly executed as the lender needs an order of the court to allow them to enforce the agreement. There are other situations where action can be taken under a live agreement tooo Welcome to the bizarre and loony world of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 pt2537 Hope this helps Regards sc

Hi empowered No second DN, and no further contact from Restons! SC