It probably includes some, yes. I will send off my SAR letter to bank and then it will become clear. I was careful with my accounts (until s hit f) and if any charges were applied I phoned and asked for them back. Most of the time they complied. Then when I heard about the option of challenging the legality I sent of 'the letter' and got back another £100 or so. But I would think that when the end came there would be more lobbed on there which I have not tried to reclaim. DW

Ah, ok. That clears that up then. Remaining question is: - What are DCA supposed to supply to show how amount is arrived at? Is Sale Agreement (showing that amount) sufficient? DW

Cheers for that. Have looked at that before but then ....couldn't find it again. I find searching and navigation difficult on this site. DW

Sorry everyone. Was getting no input at all on old thread for 7 days so I thought maybe it was cos it didn't have an accurate title any more, relevant to my current queries. So I started a new one but I have been advised by admin that I can apply to have to title changed by pm'ing a mod. I will do that. Am a newbie and apparently not quick up on the uptake when it comes to finding my way around here. )

I tried to print off the SAR letter from the generator on the site whilst at work yesterday but had trouble getting it to print. Is an intranet so strange things sometimes cause these glitches. Can do it now I'm home. And I will for my information. Just feel it isn't up to me to show how the debt is arrived at. Otherwise DCA could just pluck a figure from thin air!

thanks ladies - are you both ladies? Any idea what a statement of account should comprise of?

Bump. Urgent now. Please can someone confirm what docs I can ask for to prove amount owed. Is it just letter of assignment or can I ask for statements. Debt has been purchased by DCA.

One can only say 'Bless them' !!!!

Thanks guys. But Gymfreak I understood CPR letter only applies while it's under litigation. Am I wrong? Any case £1 doesn't matter so could send for CCA. Might keep them busy anyway trying to find the docs. I know they can't supply them cos this applies to a catalogue debt and there isn't a CCA. Hah! I was just really looking for the best response to make. Seemed like no sense in asking for docs and waiting and sending off non-compliance letter etc if they are not even allowed to pursue it at all. Tell you what - letter sending is cheap so I'll send letter saying still in dispute can't be pursued and see what they make of that. Then if they 'ocker (as they say in Yorks) at that I'll ask them to supply said docs then. Just to clarify my moral stance here - I ran into severe business difficulties 3 years ago resulting in lots of debt. I have amicable arrangements with most of the original creditors and started off being oh so nice and compliant with the few DCAs that came on the scene. Only to discover the reality of the debt collection industry which involved deceit and harrassment and many unlawful practices that seem to be ignored by our justiciary system. So now, since I am no longer even paying back the company that lent me the money or supplied the goods, I am intent upon making the DCAs toe the line as far as I am able. If they can then I must pay them but if they can't I'm willing to benefit from this poker game that we're all playing with them. DW

Thanks everyone for replies. Will read up on the links included and reply fully tonight. Must work on other things right now. But Goldlady - To clarify - it was not CLF who sent the default notices - these are the my copies sent by the bank when the s**** first hit the proverbial. You can read my thread here. However short story - Part 1 Debt passed to CLF, I CCA'd them, they ignored this and issued claim thro court. Part 2 I found CAG forums, sent CPR letter to CLF solicitors, filed defence, CLF discontinued!!! Yay! CAG rules OK! Part 3 CCA's rec'd from CLF - one duff, one ok - CLF asking me to set up repayment arrangement. Nothing suppled by CLF to show how amount arrived at.I need to respond but will not set up arrangement without correct docs from them. Hence need to know exactly what I'm entitled to from them. I can send SAR but surely DCA are obliged to show me via documentation how the debt arises? Is the debt enforceable if they haven't done this? DW

I have a letter from a previous dca stating they cannot access docs so are not pursuing the debt. About a year later I have received correspondence from Wescot pursuing the debt afresh. Will check letter later to see if they are collecting or saying they have purchased. But am I right in thinking this debt is still in dispute with another dca and so cannot be sold or otherwise pursued? DW

Thank you, Hopeful, but I'm still not sure what next step is. It is clear that my default notices are unlawful as they do not give 14 days. But I'm still not clear what I can do with this information. Also the default notices are for a credit card and a loan whilst the debt is being collected under another bank account number for which I have never received any default notice. DCA refer to it as an amalgamation of these two debts. Also not clear on what documantation I am entitled to - I was under the impression that I could ask for full statements showing how the debt is arrived at but upon studying section 78(1) I can't seem to make it mean that!!! :-| On the other hand I realise I do need some documentation to show why I owe what they say I do. Can anyone confirm what I am entitled to receive in order for the debt to be enforcable? At present I have one ok CCA for a loan - but not matching the account number of the claim - and one illegible CCA for a credit card likewise not matching the claim number. Plus default notices from the original bank lacking the required time allowance to make amends and again not matching the account number of the claim. I have trawled the threads night and day :? as many of us have Lol! but I still seem to be struggling to see my way forward with clarity. Bless everyone whol contributes here. You are amazing. DW

Would appreciate some clarification. If a default notice was issued with insufficient time to make redress - ie less than 14 days does this mean the debt is unenforceable? If it doesn't then what difference does it make? DW

Any advice, anyone?

Ok thanks Paul. That's clear now. Now the account number that is used for the debt is an old bank account. The debt is for a credit card and personal loan which have their own different account numbers. The letter from DCA last week stated the debt is "an amalgamation of c card and pers loan" There is no mention of it being an overdraft. So there is a duality in the documentation issue. There is no documentation at all for the account number being used for this debt (the bank ac no.) The documentation I have for cc and pers loan is faulty in several ways. 1. The default notices on each did not give 14 days. 2. The terms and conditions on the copy of agreement for the credit card is totally ilegible. 3. The terms and conditions for Personal Loan was on the reverse but is not copied from the same document as the front has a fold mark and the t&c's don't 4. I have never received statements for any of the three accounts showing how this debt was arrived at. So I am not willing to just go ahead and start an arrangement. Your advice would be appreciated on how to proceed. Do I just send the "you have not sent docs and can't proceed" letter or should I take up this matter of the mismatching account numbers? DW