Good morning all, Mrs Z here

Does anyone know if Mr Z needs to include relevant case laws in with his paperwork for the court and Cobbetts or will it be sufficient just to take copies to the actual hearing?

Any advice gratefully received, I need to know asap as the paperwork needs to go off tomorrow by special delivery. They have to receive this 7 days before the hearing!

Thank you

Regards

Mrs Z

Just an after thought Andy,

In his rush to submit the Amended Defence at the end of December, Mr Z only mentioned that the Claimant had failed to send a copy of the Default Notice (as ordered by the DJ) and not the fact that the DN they did send in February last year is non compliant!

Is it too late to submit now? The fact that the "DN template letter" they did send is more like the "Termination of Account" letter, except the template letter states 28 days as opposed to 14 in the Termination letter. Does this make a difference and should this be disclosed also?

Cobbetts go on about Mr Z has failed to file and serve a particularised amended defence, yet Mr Z did state that he was unable to in his amended defence due to them sending the same paperwork as previously.

Regards

Mrs Z

We appreciate that, thank you so much Andy

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks for your comments tiokim.

Andy,

It is not your defence that's the problem, Mr Z had to submit an "Amended Defence" at the end of December. We couldn't get any help from the forum for that as such - hence the cobbled one put together in a blind panic and rush. Your defence helped us a great deal.

Please can you offer any advice??

Mrs Z

Good morning all, Mrs Z here.

Thanks citizenB, you were right!

Mr Z has just rung the Court and they said that a letter should arrive today or tomorrow regarding the “strike out” hearing applied for by Cobbetts. The date is the 3rd March – eeek!!

Cobbetts are stating that Mr Z’s “Amended Defence” does not comply with the DJ’s Order (dated November 2008) as it does not constitute a sufficiently particularised response to the documents supplied by the claimant. It goes on to say that the “Amended Defence” contains the wording of the Order (true but that was just for ease of reference for the Judge) and then states that the Claimant has not complied with the order and requests that the Claim is struck out. (Not true, no copy of DN, CCA not compliant).

Cobbetts go on to say that “In light of the above the Claimant respectfully submits that the Claimant duly complied with the Order and supplied the required documentation to the Defendant”. The Defendant has failed to file and serve a particularised amended defence and therefore the Claimant respectfully submits that the Defendant’s Defence be struck out and there be judgement for the Claimant etc. etc.

The DN is non compliant.

Opinions needed desperately please on the alleged CCA;

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op1done.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op2done.jpg

We would appreciate some direction with this as Mr Z is not totally confident on how to proceed.

We understand that the relevant case laws need to be printed and produced in addition to other paperwork and presumably a witness statement.

We were thinking that providing we can be sure that the CCA they have supplied is non compliant along with the incorrectly formatted (and lack of 14 days notice) DN that Mr Z could apply for a “strike Out” at the hearing.

Time is truly of the essence now, so any advice/opinions would be most gratefully received, thank you.

I am really scared that the Claimant will win judgement by default if we don't address this correctly.

Regards

Mrs Z

Hi Andy so pleased you're still around! I am well thank you if not somewhat panicky. Hope you are well too?

Mr Z and I would appreciate your input in our way forward if you wouldn't mind? If it wasn't for you and your invaluable help, we would have been at the mercy of the Co-op by now for sure!!

Thanks Andy

Regards

Mrs Z

citizenB,

Cobbets sent the package of "goodies" 18th December (SD), the amended defence was submitted at the end of December. By items missing, do you mean a copy of the DN? Yes it was missing, I put a link to what they considered was a "DN Template letter"!

I really don't know what to think, regarding if they have a case or not. The strange thing is they are asking for a strike out but want it dealt with at a hearing!

All I know is that it's getting me down at the minute! A part of me wants to throw the towel in but the other part (my stubbornness) wants to fight!! Lol!!!

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks again tiokim

I certainly hope that is the case!!

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks 42man! Sorry didn't notice your post.

It would be much appreciated if you would be kind enough to give me your opinion on the CCA they sent please?

Thanks

Mrs Z

Thanks tiokim, you're really kind

What concerns me with the CCA is that (though barely legible) is that it does state:

I have read the credit agreement overleaf as well as my customer copy of the full set of conditions etc. It's very hard to read as the copy is so dark but nonetheless it's still there!

I'm presuming the 2nd page is the terms, though again barely legible and it strains the eyes to read it!!!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op1done.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op2done.jpg

The DN is definately flawed and they haven't sent an actual copy in their last bundle of paperwork either.

Yes it would be great if Andyorch or Aloyuish were around, but we all have busy lives I guess!

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Hi Bubblecat

Regarding the telephone harrassment, you'll find the letter template here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/131250-dca-creditor-harassment-telephone.html

I think you need to file what's known as an "Embarrassed Defence" if you've not recieved anything from the Claimant.

Perhaps someone more competent than I can say for sure?

Regards

Mrs Z

Hi citizenB

Sorry did I give the impression that I thought that the court had allowed a strike out already? No, I didn’t think that but am concerned as to whether or not we need to respond to the last sentence on Cobbetts N244:

The Claimant draws the Defendant’s attention to CPR 24.5 (1) and the Defendant’s opportunity to file evidence on which he intends to rely at the hearing.

After reading it (yet again) I am wondering if it’s their way of putting the frighteners on to a LIP and making Mr Z show his hand this early on (bear in mind the hearing has been set by the court for the end of April) so they can have the advantage?? I really don’t know what to think!

I’ve brought the amended defence forward from the thread.

It consisted of the statement below and supporting evidence was copies of the alleged CCA, so called DN template letter, Claimant’s witness statement, Claimant file notes on Mr Z.

Between

Supporting Documentation

On 26th November 2008 District Judge xxxxxxx sitting at xxxxxxxxx County Court, xxxxxxxx Combined Court, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx issued a General Form of Judgment or Order (copy attached at Annex A), as stated below:

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1.The Claimant shall, by 4:00 pm on 29th December 2008, serve on the defendant and file with the Court copies of the following:-

• Compliant copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the Claimant seeks to rely upon.
  

• Default notice compliant with Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended.
  

• Document, Contract or Deed of assignment (if applicable).
  

• Notice of Assignment, with proof of service.
  

• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon.
  

2.In the event that the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim shall be deemed struck out forthwith.

3.The Defendant shall, by 14 days after service of documents in accordance with Paragraph 1 of this order, serve on the claimant and file with the Court an amended defence, sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the Claimant. The Case will then be referred back to a District Judge.

4.In the event that the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the defence shall be deemed struck out forthwith.

5.This order has been made by the Court’s own motion. Any party affected by this order may apply to the Court within 7 Days to ask for the order to be set aside, varied or stayed (pursuant to Part 3.3(5) (a) of CPR.

On 18th December 2008 I received by Special Delivery a packet containing the following:

• Covering letter from XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXX. (Copy attached at Annex B)
  

• Witness Statement of XXXXXXXXXXXXX (Copy attached at Annex C).
  

• Copy of Incorrect Credit Agreement (Copy attached at Annex D).
  

• 116 pages of incomplete statements (some unreadable) (Will be made available at hearing).
  

• Copy of Template Default Notice used by the Claimant, rough draft with no detail (Copy attached at Annex E).
  

• 4 Pages of File Notes (Copies attached at Annex D).
  

My Response (amended Defence) in accordance with Paragraph 3 of Judge XXXXXXXXXX’ Order is as follows:

The claimant has failed to submit “the required Documents” supporting their case despite being ordered to do so.

The claimant has had every opportunity to file such documentation and the size of the organisation, it is not unreasonable for them to have filed such documentation on time at the first opportunity, they have since been given a second chance to file documents by order of District Judge XXXXXXXXXX and they appear to have ignored the Honourable Judge’s orders and have failed to comply as directed.

The result of this failure is that I am unable to file a fully particularised defence to the claimants claim as directed by the Honourable Judge XXXXXXXXXX as without the documentation which the claimant relies upon, I am unable to answer their allegations as set out in their particulars and I am placed at a severe disadvantage, as I am a Litigant in person.

Therefore, I would request that pursuant to CPR part 3.4, 2 © that the claim is struck out without further order

If this is not acceptable, then please refer this letter and the file to District Judge XXXXXXXXXX to highlight the Claimant’s non-compliance with the order dated 26th November 2008 and for further directions to be issued.

I believe that the facts stated in this supporting documentation are true.

Signed……………………………. (Defendant)

Dated …………………………….

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks citizenB A star as always, much appreciated

Regards

Mrs Z

Good morning all, Mrs Z here.

Today Mr Z has received a copy of an N244 “Application Notice” from the solicitors.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/CoopN244A.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/CoopN244B.jpg

I am feeling quite sick at the minute. I’ve looked at the CCA they provided (links below) and I’m wondering if it is indeed compliant! Can someone please look again for me to see if I’m panicking for nothing or if we have actually got a “compliant” CCA?

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op1done.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Co-op2done.jpg

Quick Recap so far:

Embarrassed defence submitted online via MCOL in July 2008

On the 18th November 2008 Cobbetts wrote and they enclosed a “Notice of change of Solicitor” for Mr Z’s records and a copy of the Claimants AQ. Basically, they were asking for the defence to be struck out and they didn’t want to negotiate either.

On 29th November 2008, Mr Z received a “General Form of Judgement or Order” this morning from our local Court oredring that the claimants comply with all points raised in Andyorche's draft order Mr Z submitted.

An amended defence (obviously a cr*p one going by what we received today) was handed in to the court and a copy sent to the solicitors on the 29th December.

Now this N244 today from Cobbetts!

Is Mr Z obliged to file more evidence and send to the solicitors or just make sure he has all relevant paperwork for the courthearing at the end of April?? Or are they playing more mind games?

The Default Notice (which they failed to supply, they sent a template of what they said would have been a DN, saying that as the letter is automated , the bank is unable to retrieve a true copy of the letter sent to the defendant) Link below:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/CoopDNTemplate.jpg

Any advice really appreciated, I am panicking big style here!

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks for the brilliant letter cerberusalert, I shall get that typed up and sent off to cap 1!

Thanks again von Greenbach, another faux pas (invalid DN) on their part then!!

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks again Von Greenbach! That was quick!

I'm surprised, I thought that as they've given 28 days it would suffice! Just goes to show doesn't it!!

Thanks again

I would still like some opinions on the "alleged" CCA though please anyone?

Thanks

Regards

Mrs Z

Hi Von Greenbach, thanks for your reply

Links to front and back of DN:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Cap1DNfront.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Cap1DNBack.jpg

Think it's probably compliant though.

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here.

Mr Z received a Default Notice from Cap 1 at the end of Jan giving 28 days to rectify.

I have been reading through a few of the Cap 1 threads with great interest.

I have reposted the links to what was sent from Cap 1 regarding Mr Z's CCA request. The "application form" sent doesn't contain the prescribed terms as kindly provided by 42man:

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

The only thing the application form states is on the reverse is - see reverse for important Balance Transfer information. That form number ends in 02 when it was applied for.

Also, the rest of the paperwork is 2008 related - their letter's numbers ends with 08.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n.../CapOneCCA.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...caponelett.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...OneLetter2.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...Oneletter3.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...us/TCfront.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/TcBack-1.jpg

Presumably, once the 28 days is up it will be passed on to a DCA so would very much appreciate any comments/advice on whether or not this application form is actually compliant - as we think it is not!

Thanks in advance

Mrs Z

I truly hope that this can be sorted out so everyone is happy, there are thousands of users that are desperate for advice.

I for one would be lost without CAG

Think on and let's stop bickering please

Regards

Mrs Z

PS: Those threatening to leave, please reconsider

Isn't that what Labour's good at - making the most vulnerable suffer!

Disgusting tactics - even for the Labour Party!

Mrs Z

Thanks babybear That's what I thought??

We did send a letter to Citi stating that they were happy enough to send sensitive information before requesting the S.A.R.

Perhaps we should compose a letter back to Citi complaining that they have not fully complied with the S.A.R?

Then we'll see what happens from there!

Thanks again

Mrs Z

PS: Hope you are well and Uni is going ok for you

Thanks citizenB

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here, this post concerns Citi Cards.

Mr Z has today received statements dating back to 2003 from Citi in response to his S.A.R request.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...quest1done.jpg

I’ve reposted the link to the letter received from Citi on the 17th January because I want to check that I am reading it the way it’s supposed to mean and would appreciate anyone’s opinion on this.

I am wondering if Citi have complied with only part of the S.A.R request with the statements received today.

According to their letter, where it says:

In addition to providing statements, you also wish us to provide you with any instances of manual intervention; please can you complete the enclosed form and provide the two forms of identification requested.

So, after thinking about it, I’ve come to the conclusion that Citi won’t send any other paperwork until they receive said ID.

OR

Mr Z’s letter (response to their letter above) dated and posted 20th Jan probably arrived there on the 21st Jan – prompted them to get a move on and send.

Although, Citi’s covering letter (with statements) is dated 20th Jan, the actual postmark on their rather battered and torn (not enough for documents to be lost though) envelope is the 22nd January. I am of the opinion that they may have back dated the covering letter, then it could be that I have become very cynical in my old age

Please accept my apologies if it comes across as confusing!! I think I've confused myself!!!

Regards

Mrs Z

Hello again

After reading alfwithhair’s tragic thread about his friend and this business of the cut up and returned credit card being produced in court, we’re not requesting a CCA (at this stage anyway)!

Looking thoroughly through the FD file, there is a copy of both current account card and credit card (cut up). Mr Z sent the cut up cards back with a letter at their request.

Bear in mind this was a year ago and unfortunately pre CAG!

However, for now, we’ve composed a letter to CL finance to tell them that Mr Z will not correspond with them further until they provide the correct information.

I am now off to check all creditor files to see if Mr Z has sent any other cut up cards back. Fortunately he always retains a copy as with first Direct!

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks for your reply cerberusalert.

CL Finance ref number (customer number) is stated on their letter too. The account number for the First Direct current account is clearly stated as:

Re:Your Date account opened **-***** -08, First Direct Curr Acct Account

Account Number: **************

That is exactly how they've put it on their letter! The "account" that CL show has 14 digits.

Now the puzzling thing is Mr Z's FD current account consists of 8 numbers and the CC is 16 numbers, as is the norm I believe?

Thanks again

Mrs Z

Thanks citizenB,

I think I read about that notice of assignment should be sent by recorded delivery too.

Perhaps we should just send off the CCA request anyway quoting the "customer" number and this alleged account no?

Thanks again

Mrs Z

I was just about to type out the CCA request to CL finance Ltd and I've noticed that the "current account" number they've stated is not the same as Mr Z's!

Does anyone think they've made an error (apart from the fact it's a CC debt) on purpose or got Mr Z mixed up with someone else?

Mr Z has got a letter from First Direct (the first response to his original "I can't pay" letter) clearly stating the current account number and showing a nil balance and his CC with a debit.

Anyone know how we should word this letter now please?

Any help much appreciated, thank you

Mrs Z

Thanks for your reply cerberusalert, yes, at the very least, it will mess them around which is no more than they deserve!!

And as you say, it will keep one of the monkey's occupied for a while

Regards

Mrs Z