Hi all,

I have just checked my Amex file and as they have failed to produce a “valid” CCA, and their deadline (12+2 working days) expired on the 2nd June, am I correct in thinking that another 30 calendar days expires on the 2nd July?

I have been looking for a template letter to send them once their additional 30 days have expired but can’t find it! It’s probably just me not looking properly, but can anyone point me in the direction please?

I will keep it safe as Citi will be the next to get the letter, they have ignored my CCA request so far, their 12+2+30 days are up a couple of weeks later.

Any help appreciated as always, thank you

Thanks rippedoffagain and thanks again andyorch, have submitted it now! No doubt I will be back posting as to what I can expect next!!

More help please!

Do I defend "all of this claim" or "part of this claim"

thanks

Wow superfast reply andyorch, thank you so much

Help please!

Which part do I fill in on the court website? Have decided it's between these two:

1. If you need 28 days (rather than 14) from the date of service to prepare your defence, or wish to contest the Court's juristiction, complete the acknowledgement of service.

2. If you dispute the whole claim or wish to make a claim (a counterclaim) against the claimant, complete the defence form.

Thank you

Thank you rippedoffagain and andyorch for your excellent replies.

I googled Incasso LLP and they state that they are the specialist Debt Recovery division of Cobbetts LLP Solicitors. So I presume I send it to them (Incasso LLP I mean) by recorded delivery?

The issue date was the 24th June, thanks for the added info regarding extra days allowed for delivery.

Thanks to all of you for your invaluable help:)

Thank you very much for your fast response and the template letter sequenci, it is much appreciated!

Just a few more questions, if you don’t mind.

I presume that I must send that recorded? Also should I reply to Northampton Court meanwhile stating I intend to defend the claim? I believe I can do this online.

Do I send the template letter to CO-Op or to INCASSO LLP at their address in Leeds as stated on the claim form?

Many, many thanks

I have started a fresh thread as this is a different matter, hope that I’ve done the right thing! Please accept my apologies in advance if it needs to be merged with my original thread.

I received CCJ papers today from Northampton CCBC on behalf of Co-Op (smile Credit Card debt).

I am so annoyed with myself; I was going to CCA them back along but never got around to it.

Anyway, I believe there maybe charges on the account that I dispute so where do I go from here?

I am very concerned as it says I have 14 days in which to reply to this claim form.

I have scanned the court paper work (probably unnecessary to scan every page, but wasn’t sure) and the default letter plus the last letter I received from the Co-op if someone would take a look at please.

I have been paying a token payment of £1 every month (since January) as that is all I can afford, unemployed at present and my income consists of a war pension and small army pension at just over £700 a month in total.

The worrying thing is I also have a loan debt with the Co-Op and fear another CCJ may be forthcoming regarding that.

Any help very much appreciated, thank you.

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Thanks for your replies.

citizenB: Yes, I had read that in the OFT guidance and it could be an avenue worth pursuing. I will see how things progress and act accordingly should I deem it necessary. The Power2Contact agent got no further than stating who he was and scuttled off after I told him to go. He made no further attempt to say anything, then again that just be because I shut the door – lol!!

car2403: So I’ll wait and see what response I receive from Amex and if it is not favourable and they are sticking to their guns that the original CCA is sufficient (in their opinion anyway). I will then send the template letter you have given. At the very least it will tie them up in knots!

Thank you once again to all of you for all your help

Forgot to say, one of my complaints to Citi Cards was in relation to doorstep visits (before Power2Contact's visits). I explained to them that I have been medically diagnosed with PTSD (part of the reason I recieve a War pension) and that these doorstep visit threats were giving me added stress. They probably had a good laugh about that!

paulwlton: Thanks for your reply, as I said, I’ve only been paying a token £1, but will cease from now on until they get their act together. I agree, I would have thought that they would have sent me a signed copy if they had one too.

Car2403: Thanks again for your reply.

Should I send the template letter you have posted then or wait to see what they come up with next?

When I wrote the part about “it is correct and that’s all you’re getting” letter from Amex, I was sort of reading between the lines (if you see what I mean!!), the actual wording was:

We take pride in treating our customers with the utmost respect and I am sorry for the difficulties you have encountered recently. Please be assured that we strive for superior service, and I regret that we have disappointed you in this respect.

I can confirm that the information you were given was correct and regrettably, I can only reiterate the details again.

The statements that you have received are the validation of your debt, and the credit agreement we sent you in May agrees to the terms and conditions of the account, and is the contract between us.

We have fulfilled the conditions of the consumer credit act and therefore, I hope you will understand and accept our position in this matter, and begin to pay your outstanding balance.

I hope I have clarified this matter; however should you have any further concerns, please do not hesitate to call us on the telephone number below.

After that was received from Amex, I sent the letter that I posted earlier and received the following reply from Amex today:

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 16 June 2008, received in this office today.

As you have indicated that you are dissatisfied with our initial response, your complaint has now been escalated and will be investigated further.

Please be assured that you will receive a response as soon as possible.

I have sent the “doorstep” letter to a few of both creditors and DCA’s alike. Most have heeded the “do not visit me” letters except Power2Contact (Citi Cards). They came to the house the first time and put a postcard half in, half out the letterbox (it wasn’t posted, this was around 5-5.30pm), less than a week later they came back and actually knocked. I told the agent to go away and that I had stipulated to his company that I will not accept doorstep visits, all communication is to be in writing only and if he didn’t leave I would call the police. Off he trundled, nothing since.

But as I said earlier on in this thread, I have two (as yet unresolved) complaints and a CCA request lodged with Citi cards. I was going to make a formal complaint to the OFT regarding Power2Contact’s visits, but have been feeling really low and haven’t done so, I suppose it’s too late now. This was around a month ago now I think.

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to help me

citizenB: Thanks so much for your reply and for posting a link to my thread for further help and a link to another thread that is similar to mine; it is much, much appreciated. I have had a read through that thread and it seems that they have had exactly the same CCA response as me.

I don’t feel as despondent as I was earlier now thanks to the help I am now receiving

Car2403: Thanks so much for your reply and the letter template you have given. I have only been paying £1 token payment a month anyway as that’s all I can afford currently. I have sent the letter below on Monday:

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until 02/06/08 to provide me with the true copy that I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. If you continue to try to enforce this debt without complying with my original request you will have committed a criminal offence and your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I look forward to your reply.

I presume that’s another version of the template that you have so kindly posted? The reply from Amex regarding the above letter arrived this morning – stating that they are dealing with my “complaint”.

Judging by the first letter I sent them, telling them that I wasn’t happy with their so called CCA and their reply of basically “it is correct and that’s all you’re getting” attitude and today after sending the above letter (which obviously has more clout) and the reply, they are obviously worried!

Surely, if they do hold a signed by me document, they would have sent it wouldn’t they?

Don’t worry, neither Amex nor Credit Solutions Limited have access to my telephone number. When I moved some 18 months ago I did not have a telephone number at the time to give them, only my address. I never (thank goodness) got around to furnishing them with my new number. I find it stressful enough getting the creditor nasties (letters) without telephone harassment.

Two days after Amex sent me the “it is correct and that’s all you’re getting” letter, CSL wrote again. I have totally ignored them, haven’t had anything since.

Thank you for all your help, I can see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel now

citizenB, thank you so much for responding, I have scanned the e-application and the page which has the blank credit agreement, which you can see there are no signatures from either myself or Amex. I presume there is no need for me to scan every page or is there?

The “agreement” page was part of loose sheets numbering 13 in total which was titled “CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CREDIT CONSUMER ACT 1974”.

Thanks so much, I really appreciate your help with this.

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This morning, I have received a response from Amex to my letter sent at the beginning of the week (using the template from this forum – re: incorrect CCA response) and it has obviously has had a better effect than the previous one I had sent. They now say that they are dealing with my “complaint”.

Out of my nine creditors, Amex and Citi Cards have been the worst. They have given me that much grief that I have sent a CCA to both of them. I have been paying token payments every month to all of my creditors as my financial status is very grim. The only income I have is a war pension and a small army pension totalling just over £700 a month. I have applied for so many jobs that I’ve lost count, being over 50 obviously has a bearing on why I am getting nowhere! I am in despair that I’ll never get another job although I’ll keep trying. It is making me feel very demoralised and the fact that creditors and the DCA’s won’t accept that I can’t pay as opposed to won’t pay is not helping.

The deadline for Amex for the 12+2 days was up on the 2nd June, so they have another 30 days before they are in default is that correct?

Citi cards have just passed the 12+2 days deadline to respond and I have not heard a thing from them. They got Power2Contact on to me who made a visit after I had sent them the “doorstep” letter (from here, thank you) telling them not to. Citi have had two complaints from me dating back months ago which have not been dealt with yet.

If anyone has any advice re the Amex CCA originally sent mentioned in my earlier posts, I really would be grateful, thank you

Hi All,

This post is in reference to my last post with the CCA from American Express. I wrote to them again and told them that it was not a true copy as it lacked any signatures (theirs or mine). I recieved a response stating that what they had sent was a CCA and I would not get anything else.

I have since finding a template letter on the CAG forum (thank you) wrote to them again and sent recorded delivery. They have recieved it and I am still waiting a reply to that letter. I think that they may well take more notice of that letter as it is brilliantly written by one of the forum's members.

Does anyone know if it's likely to be a true executed copy please? I have had nothing but grief with the DCA's they have assigned to this account, managed to get NCO Europe off my back and have CSL on it now.

Any help would be truly appreciated, thanks

Hi all,

I have received a reply to my CCA request to Amex (within time). All it includes is an Amex e-application, which basically contains all personal information when applying for the card, looks like a computer generated print out and a blank copy of their credit card agreement?

I think I applied for it late in 2005 online, does this mean Amex does not have to send a signed (by me) agreement?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks:)

Apologies Bookworm, I did mean to find my old thread first!

Andy, thanks for your reply. No I haven't done a CCA to anyone as yet as I'm not sure that I can- due to acquiring the card late in 2005. I thought I read somewhere that any credit cards obtained after 2004 electronically meant they (CC Issuer) didn't have to supply a CCA. Or have I got that totally wrong?

I think I should CCA either Amex or CSL - if only to allow me to see the breakdown of figures, as I've said, the latest letter from CSL shows the balance with the added file referral fee (£739.18) and another fifty odd pounds.

What I need to know is, should I CCA Amex or CSL?

Many thanks

Hi all,

Since my last post, I have received a response from Amex with a load of drivel and saying that they will waive the file referral fee (as shown on letter from CSL) in this instance, but insist that in my terms and conditions (I couldn’t find anything concerning this) they have the right to add on a referral fee.

I am not trying to avoid my debts, but should I CCA Amex or CSL, or both? The reason I am considering going down the CCA route is the latest letter from CSL shows the debt balance even higher than the last letter from them, the letter was dated the day after Amex’s letter informing me that file referral fee would be taken off.

It may be a question of CSL has not been advised of the fee being axed by Amex yet, or they could be trying it on. The problem is, I took out this CC in late 2005 and I think it was an online application. So I am after some advice as to whether I actually can request a CCA. I have been paying a token £1 each month since January (as advised by the National Debtline) direct to Amex.

Any help would be gratefully received, thanks.

No worries babybear39, credit where credits due- no pun intended!

Thanks once again babybear39,

I don't suppose it would hurt to send a copy to CSL as well! Cheers!

Thanks for your reply babybear39,appreciate your help very much

So I should completely ignore CSL then and just take the appropriate action mentioned before to Amex?

Hi and thanks for your replies.

babybear39, so you’re saying that my complaint of harassment by RMA regarding trying to contact me through a third party (my brother) constitutes an unresolved dispute? Also, that Amex should have informed me before passing the debt on to another DCA and furthermore should not have done so prior to informing me?

The reason I was thinking about doing a CCA to CSL is to make sure I have proof of their dealings with Amex concerning my debt. So you think I should CCA Amex whilst reminding them that they have yet to resolve my complaint and that they have breached OFT guidelines?

Sorry if I appear dense, it’s just that I want to get it right!!

Fred Bassett, CSL have definitely added on charges of over £700, it states it on their letter. I’ve read the relevant post from the thread you posted, very interesting, I will have to follow that up because I’m sure that no such agreement exists between Amex and me.

Hello, this is my first post; I’ve read through a fair few threads and found them very informative.

I need some advice please.

Amex used RMA to deal with my debt and after trying to get at me through my brother and failing; I wrote official complaints to both RMA and Amex regarding their behaviour.

To cut a long story short, RMA passed us back to Amex because I just wouldn’t give in to their “telephone us” demands. I wrote to Amex and said that RMA had ignored my contact in writing only request and consequently, as far as I’m concerned my complaint re RMA has not been resolved and Amex has wrote (dated 13th March) and said that my complaint has been escalated and will be investigated further.

Anyway, after around 10 days of silence (from RMA), today I have received a letter from Credit Solutions Limited who have lumped on over £700 as a file referral fee to my Amex debt and want the full amount on return. They state: Please do not simply write as our time limits are strict. In other words – phone us to confirm your payment has been sent. There is a payment slip attached to the letter.

My questions are:

• Can Amex pass the debt on to another DCA whilst a complaint is ongoing?

• Am I right in thinking that Amex should inform me before passing the debt on to another DCA?

I’m of the mindset that initially I should write to Amex and complain yet again or should I write a “CCA letter to Credit Solutions Limited”?

Any advice would be much appreciated, thankyou.

Hi all,

I have been a lurker on these forums for months now and decided it was time to join - allowing me to participate.

The information that I have come across has been very helpful to me and my debt situation. There are so many things that I hadn't realised I could do regarding my debts until I found this web site, thank you to all who have helped me enormously!