Done, please leave real name off, thanks

I and Misterzeus send our heartfelt condolences to Martin's family and friends at this very sad time. We haven't been on here in a long while, but we've never forgotten the help we've gratefully received from Martin and many others.

Rest In Peace Martin x

Wow that was quick, thanks Enron!

Mrs Z

Good afternoon, Mrs Z here,

Mr Z has received the exact same documents as the OP but sent from a DCA and not Citi.

In their covering letter they quote The Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. They go on to say and I quote:

Pursuant to these regulations, we are required to provide you with a 'true copy' of the agreement. Specifically I would refer you to Regulation 3 (2) which states that the agreement is not required to be an exact replica of the original document but may omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature.

They finish with:

We consider that this document fulfils our legal requirement and that this debt is now enforcable.

Enron, your view on how to proceed would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks for your response diddydicky,

Unfortunately, the CPR 31.14 letter will have been received by them by now! However, I was under the impression that if you wanted an executed copy of the CCA, CPR 31.14 was the best route to take anyway?

Regarding your second post, quote:

"Further and alternatively, it is denied that the agreement was properly executed and/or is now enforceable in whole or in part".

Mr Z cannot state this as the Consumer Credit Agreement requested hasn't been sent yet, I think they may have something to say if he did say it!

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Good morning, Mrs Z here.

Docman thank you for your advice, but the DCA have said that they are in the process of requesting Mr Z's Consumer Credit Agreement

diamondgirl, thank you for your advice, we will compile a letter to the DCA using your kind suggestions, much appreciated

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Good afternoon,

Mr Z has a query with a certain DCA/Bank; I don’t want to name ‘names’ at this point for obvious reasons.

Anyway, Mr Z defaulted with a bank loan in Dec 07, but has been paying a token payment every month until the middle of this month when:

A DCA sent a letter of “intended litigation”, so Mr Z responded with a Civil Procedure Rules (Pre-action directions – Protocols 4.6 template) letter. Meanwhile, another letter from the DCA arrived, headed NOTICE OF LITIGATION.

Mr Z responded to that one with a variation of the Civil Procedure Rules – a request made under CPR31.14 (thanks CitizenB), but that’s by the by for now as it was only posted yesterday.

Today, Mr Z has received a letter from the DCA who state:

They acknowledge receipt of his letter (the first one) and are in the process of requesting a copy of his Consumer Credit Agreement.

They go on to say they are pleased to note that Mr Z is aware of the Civil procedure Rules and would simply draw his attention to the Overriding Objective set out in Part 1.1 of the rules and more specifically Parts 1.1.2 © and (d). We have read the CPR parts they mention – even though they have cocked up on the number on the second one, we understand it.

They go on to say basically that they believe some of the information requested seems to relate to issues that may not be in dispute. They also say that they believe some of the information requested is subject to legal privilege having prepared in contemplation of possible litigation.

They go on to say:

We write therefore, to ask whether you accept the fundamental principle here that you have made application for and have been granted credit in relation to the account in question.

They add further: Could you please confirm to what extent, if any, you are prepared to admit liability for any credit advanced to you.

They finish with: We reserve the right to produce a copy of this letter to the court and refer to any response or lack of the same from you in the event that proceedings are issued or if it is not possible for us to reach an agreement. We confirm that in the absence of information to the contrary from you, that this is a simple debt recovery matter and it is our objective to reach a sensible and affordable payment arrangement with you on behalf of our client.

What I am asking is this:

Should Mr Z ignore this latest letter and wait and see what the second letter sent to the DCA (CPR31.14 request) brings?

Mr Z feels that he should respond to this latest letter from them but is not quite sure of what he should say.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as always, thank you.

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here

Thanks to everyone that has replied

Fedupandfightingback's template could be amended and sent to the parasites omitting the following or maybe re-wording:

You have indicated that

a) You are giving Formal Notice that your client has instructed you to commence court proceedings against me without delay and

b) Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through my local court to seek a judgement against me.

To this:

You have indicated:

a) the possibility of legal action if payment is not received by you on the * June 2009.

Following on with the rest of the letter template as that seems relevant anyway regarding the alleged CCA they've (well, Cap One) supplied?

Thank you all again, very much appreciated!

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

It sounds much like Mr Z's fight with the Co-op and they discontinued!!

From what I can see, I think they are p!!!ing in the wind! Good luck with your quest, although I think it is they who should be concerned - a complete shambles on their part! Doesn't surprise me in the slightest though, expecting some serious grief from them ourselves soon!

Regards

Mrs Z

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here with an update on Cap One.

Well since the beginning of March Mr Z has received around 6 letters from CapQuest. Yesterday he had one from HL legal on behalf of CapQuest threatening court action if payment is not received by the beginning of June.

Today, another letter arrives from CapQuest stating that Cap One has advised Mr Z that section 78 documents have been sent - which are non compliant and that his "complaint" ( letter template courtesy of cerberusalert) had been dealt with in February! Therefore they are advising that payment is now due in full - some hope!!

Yesterday, Mr Z sent off a S.A.R request to Cap One, we'll see what this brings regarding the alleged CCA they've provided.

Any advice on how to respond to Hl Legal please - if at all?

Advice/opinions greatly apprciated as always

Regards

Mrs Z

Thank you both again, I will get the letter typed up and posted before we go away.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

I tried to add to both your reps again, but it tells me I must spread it around a bit first, but I'm a lady - lol!!

Mrs Z

Thank you for your quick response Viscount Stair!

Should Mr Z head the letter with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS OF THE DETAILED ASSESSMENT PROCEEDINGS" still though or is there no need?

Thank you pt2537, does that mean if they reneged on the matter we could use promissory estoppel against them?

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Good morning all,

Mr Z has today received a letter from the solicitors this morning in response to the letter sent (thank you Viscount Stair).

It is headed WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS OF THE DETAILED ASSESSMENT PROCEEDINGS

They say as correctly stated, as their client has discontinued Court proceedings, they would need permission from the Court to bring a further claim.

They say their client confirms that they will not be requesting the Court's permission to start recovery proceedings against Mr Z in relation to Account Number **** **** **** ****. I have checked that the account number they've stated is correct and it is (perhaps I'm paranoid but I wouldn't put it pass them to alter it slightly, deliberately!)

They then ask if Mr Z is prepared to accept their client's offer.

Am I correct in assuming that this latest letter from them is enough to prove that this will be the end of the matter, more importantly because they have headed the letter the way they have, could we use it against them if they renege?

Mr Z is happy to accept their client's offer, should he head his letter the same as they have when replying?

Any advice/opinions gratefully received, we are going away on Monday and won't be back until the 12th May, so time is of the essence, we would like to get a reply posted off before we go.

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

well done supasnooper!

Regards

Mrs Z

Hi Henry, I've just read your PM.

Just to clarify (in Mr Z's case anyway), the last evidence he sent for the hearing in March was entitled "Witness Statement". The judge at the hearing said he would allow Mr Z to resubmit but titled "Amended Defence" which he did.

Mr Z also enclosed the following documents:

1. Paragraphs 9 and 11 of the Wilson & Anor v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 (04 April 2007) (these are the most relevant parts of the act).

2. Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co

3. Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Thank you for such a quick response Viscount Stair!

I will get it typed up and get it off to the solicitors on Monday.

Heres hoping it gets the desired response!!

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

OK. Sorry I got waylaid but here goes:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Without Prejudice save as to the costs of any detailed assessment proceedings

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated X.

 

I note that your clients are seeking a sizeable discount in relation to the costs they would be required to pay me following the discontinuance of the proceedings that they chose to bring against me.

 

The amount of the costs that I claimed in my letter of X is entirely reasonable and, if anything, it was based on conservative estimates of the time that I had to spend defending the proceedings.

 

I remain confident that I would recover most (if not, indeed, all) of the amount claimed.

 

I do recognise, however, the benefits to both sides of drawing a line under these proceedings and, for that reason, I am prepared to consider your clients' offer in relation to costs.

 

However, there would be even greater benefits to both sides if complete finality could be achieved.

 

As I am sure you are aware, having discontinued proceedings, your clients would require permission from the court in order to commence proceedings again. Any application for permission will be opposed.

 

Whilst I note what you have said about your clients seeking to pursue payment by other means, I am at a loss as to what such other means your clients could legitimately employ.

 

If they were to pursue payment by other means, it would involve them breaching the Office of Fair Trading's Debt Collection Guidelines and committing offences against the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. It could also potentially involve them committing offences against the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and becoming liable for damages under section 3 of that Act.

 

If your clients were prepared to undertake not to pursue the matter any further, then I would have no hesitation in accepting the reduced offer they have made in relation to my entitlement to costs.

 

However, as matters stand, I will need to consider their offer very carefully before deciding whether to accept it, to make a counter-offer or simply to proceed to detailed assessment.

 

If your clients wish to make a revised offer, I should be obliged to hear from you. Otherwise, I shall revert in due course in relation to their current offer.

 

Yours faithfully

Thank you very much for the letter template Viscount Stair, very much appreciated

Just one question if I may, the following taken from your letter doesn’t apply to Mr Z. I think that was mentioned earlier in the thread, but it was taken from someone else’s thread IYSWIM!

Should we state the following but change the first bit from:

Whilst I note what you have said about your clients seeking to pursue payment by other means, I am at a loss as to what such other means your clients could legitimately employ.

To:

Should your client seek to pursue payment by other means, it would involve them breaching etc?

Brilliant letter though!

Thanks very much

Kind Regards

Mrs Z

Thank you angel_1! Wishing you all the best too

Thank you again Paul for your futher input, much appreciated

Thank you very much Viscount Stair, we really do appreciate your help

I think we will go with the "finality" - we have no desire to be touchy feely with that shower - lol!!!

Another big thank you to CitizenB too

Mr Z says a big thank you to everyone that has helped

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks citizenB - a star as always

Thanks Martin No application to the Courts for wasted costs, only the letter to the solicitors.

Thanks Viscount Stair Yes, Mr Z has decided to accept their offer, don't want to risk losing what they have offered or the chance that he may end up owing them money

Yes, I think that accepting their offer with conditions that they drop the matter is the way to go. Thank you for your offer to advise what Mr Z should write, very kind of you, no rush as the solicitors want a reply within 14 days.

Thanks pt2537 I like this part!

you could however invite them to consider giving you an undertaking not to pursue the debt any further ( you would have then under Promissory estoppel then) as long as they make a promise to forgo their legal rights

Thanks to all again for taking the time to reply

Regards

Mrs Z

Good morning all, Mrs Z here

Mr Z has received a reply to the wasted costs letter.

They are offering about 2/3rds of what Mr Z asked for pursuant to CPR 47.19 in full and final settlement.

However, at the top of the letter they have stated:

Without prejudice save as to costs of the detailed assessment proceedings

I googled and as far as I can see, this means that their offer letter would be inadmissable in Court - presumably, should Mr Z decide not to accept their offer and take them to Court for the full amount, he would not be able to submit their offer letter as evidence? Have I got this right?

Mr Z is thinking of accepting this offer but we would like to know if we should put something along the lines of as long as this offer is the end of the matter, the offer will be accepted or similar.

Any opinions/advice gratefully received as always, thank you.

Regards

Mrs Z

Thank you for all your replies

No need to apologise havinastella! If it's enforcable then so be it!!

This is one of our smaller debts so we will offer what we can afford and no more!

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks for your reply tigga

What I have posted in the link is all we received, there is no other side to show.

Token payments were being made up until the point that the Co-op decided to pass to Freds.

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z

Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here

After receiving a letter from Fredrickson International Ltd last November regarding a Co-op loan, we sent a credit agreement request.

Today we receive a letter from them with what they say is the Credit Agreement.

Can someone have a look at it please and give opinions as to whether it complies?

On the bottom right hand corner (under their signature) it says: Please turn over for further terms of this agreement.

The only thing we got in relation to the Credit Agreement is what’s in the link.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Co-opLoanCCA.jpg

Before we proceed further with this, any advice/opinions greatly appreciated, thank you

Regards

Mrs Z

Thanks twofoot, that has given us food for thought!!

We will check with our son as to what the balances are. Although I must stress that our son is not looking to avoid paying his debts, it's just the fact that we are better informed to deal with this for him.

TBH, I think that the charges will far outweigh the O/D and CC debt. Therefore our son will be able to pay them off.

A few months back his bank sent him a letter asking for an I & E and a repayment proposal, to which he duly filled in and offered what he could afford. He heard nothing back until a few weeks ago and that was Apex, so in effect his bank ignored his I & E and payment proposals and handed him over to a DCA.

Knowing what DCA's are like, we have offered to deal with the cretins for him! We have seen off a fair few ourselves now in the past 12 months!

Our son plans to return to England in 3 years anyway so it will before any debt would become statute barred!

Thanks again

Regards

Mrs Z