Is it a bill for a two year loss of contract? If so, no one can force a contract of more than a year on anyone. It is unlawful. And if you have cancelled a contract because, for example, 'customer care' treated you shoddily, wasn't up to what would be expected, then it is your Statutory Right to reject a contract even though the 7 days (by god they lobbied and knocked that down!) has passed- a lot of Distance Sellers (google Consumer Protection (Distance Selling ) Act, 2000 it is eay to read and get on top of your Statutory Rights : and it is criminal offence to attempt to undermine to negate a statutory right.

Rayne, nobody (not even the Queen or Prime Minister) is allowed to take money from your bank account without first telling you, and against a contract you have signed and accepted. To do so, without your knowledge, expectation or consent is a criminal cotravention of the Theft Act (1968, and later ammendments) and punishable by up to 10 years in prison plus a fine - criminals can have their ill-gotten gains confiscated. Andrew Dollamore sold out to the firm that put him on the road to infamy, fasthosts.co.uk, some 2 years ago, and fasthosts is owned by Allied Internet AG ( mostly owned by Ralph Dommermuth, the iGerman internet billionaire. Google 'streamline.net , legal' and then, of the many forums, click on 'vinylonthe.net' You will see the empty stable block that used to be Mr Dollamore's jibe and ploy, and my letters that threatened to put the whole shebang of conmen inside. After reading same please tell us on this forum whether or not you have sufficient info to hang all these twats out with the washing at one of Her Majesty's establishments for the re-education of nasties

Paullittle, point the terms of their licence out to them - only able to ask for a nominal £5 AFTER 6 months of efforts to provide an acceptable loan - and ask for your £5 back or you will challenge their right to have a Brokers Licence with the Office of Fair Trading.

Reef 10, in asking you for money upfront they contravene the licence issued to them by The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) - they are only able to take a nominal £5 off you after six months of failing to obtain you a loan on terms you find acceptable. As you see from all the postings above, they have no intention of finding you a loan, but are genuinely trying to rip you off for an unlawfully requested upfront fee. You have done the right thing in threatening them, and should have your money back soon - they operate in the belief that anyone who does not know that an upfront fee is unlawful is mugable. Obviously you are not . Let the forum know if you do not get your money back by the deadline you gave and I will give you all the information you need to make sure you indict them for fraud, and with the assistance of the Chief Constable on who's manor they [problem]

Paullittle, that's the way to do it!!! These people know that from the moment the Chief Constable is told of the presence of such people on his patch will be the beginning of the end for them. Well done Paul

Huggy Bear, if they have taken money without having first provided you with access to a loan on terms you find acceptable then their licence dictates that they cannot in six months time ask you for more than a nominal £5 - certainly not now, certainly not £59, and certainly not until you have agreed to the acceptable loan! To say that they have a loan in mind for you as a means of your paying (quite wrongfully) them money is DECEPTION Taking money from another by DECEPTION is a CONTRAVENTION of The Theft Act and punishable by up to 10 years in prison plus a fine. I believe your simply mentioning the above two lines will get you your money back rather quickly. If not, let the forum know, but also ask The Chief Constable responsible for the county in which Gravesend stands to help you indict for fraudulent theft.

Orion, you go get the buggers!! This POS take puts this company and those like it in a new league - they are not just ignoring their licence conditions , but proving irrefutably that they are in this game for the [problem], and certainly not to become more and more competent brokers.

Pretz, they must have tried for 6 months to provide you with a suitable loan to be able to claim the nominal fee of £5 dictated by law. They did not try - have you had any possibly acceptable offers? - and six months has not passed - theoretically they shouldstill be looking to fulfil your need, andvisibly so by providing offers from legitimate finance houses. They are in business to take money wrongfully in a contravention of their licence conditions. A lot if they can getaway with it, but £5 will do if they cannot get away with it. Ask them for your £5 back and which they can have returned after 6 months given offers are provided in the interim. I think you should threaten their licence to get it!

Pretz, their Terms and Conditions are written in law - no company genuinely offering a broker service should ask for an upfront fee . What the law they sign up to to get a broker's licence state, is that it is only after 6 months of failure to find a customer a loan that suits can a company ask ask for a nominal £5 sum. Any company that asks for and takes an upfront fee is contravening the law that relates to their having and keeping a licence, and The Office of Fair Trading as issuer of the licence can take Wentworth Finance licence off them. Threaten Wentworth Finance with contesting their licence with The OFT and the speed of return of your money should rattle the bank vault doors. If they took money from your account in a manner that was unexpected and surprised you (their usual trick) then they are contravening The Theft Act and could do up to 10 years in prison if you are willing to ask the Chief Constable of the area the head office is in to assist you in indicting them for contravention of The Theft Act. Threatening them with this course of action forced the return of money to a previous victim who contacted me, a sum returned that included the bank charges suffered when he was thrown into overdraft with subsequent bank charges - the company had no option but to pay up or they would have been indicted, with the assistance of the Chief Constable of course.

Scott B, the point being that if you do read the T&Cs and then still apply, it is obvious to them that you do not know the relevant law. And that is why they pass people onto another scambag (probably a front for themselves anyway, who knows?) who scams for another £30

Scott B, You think? [Go to page 2 of this forum and see my posting to Iclesamus and the unrelated Wentworth Financial Services]

Scott B, In DEMANDING an upfront payment for their brokerage services Wentworth Finance act unlawfully : the licence issued to them by the Office of Fair Trading limits brokers to a nominal £5 sum for administrative costs, but ONLY after a failure to obtain an offer acceptable to you AFTER SIX MONTHS. They play on the desperation of the consumer to perpetrate a deception : namely, that what they are doing in asking for an upfront fee is a legitimate act when it is in fact unlawful. And Wentworth have not done this accidentally, but it is a permanent activity by the company, the company's actual 'business model' - it is what they do! In TAKING an unlawfully obtained fee from an account, whether or not they tell the customer, they perpetrate a deception on the consumer, and to take money by deception is a direct contravention of The Theft Act and punishable by up to 10 years in prison. And it is therefore a contravention of the direct debit agreement. And any abuse of the direct debit agreement is grounds for a refund from the consumer's bank. If instances are reported to The Office of Fair Trading the companyshould have their licence to legally advertise as a broker withdrawn by the Office of Fair Trading.

Hello the house! It is a contravention of The Theft Act (1996, and later amendments) to debit a bank account and credit one's own without the account holder's knowledge, expectation, or permission, and is punishable by up to ten years in prison. I have found companies repond to this titbit of knowledge by suddenly seeing the issue my way. Google The Theft Act (the current government has put the laws online in a very accessible manner)- you can become as expert as anyone, given the pressure of needing a result. Companies would much prefer we stayed ignorant of such matters.

Brilliant Jerry, and Phenomenal Medal for sharing your research findings. I did find the registrant of the site to be Mr Bart Croughs while it remained on 'Whois', but that is now difficult to validate as registration has been switched to a proxy.

To the unrelated Wentworth Financial Services, there is a man in Holland, Bart Croughs who has over 5,000 online sites, some, I don't know how many, doing the same thing as this [causing problems] Wentworth Direct Finance site. Since I put his details online above he has used a proxy as the registration address so his address cannot now be found - certainly in relation to the Wentworth Finance Direct site, at least. But he may now have done the same thing for all his sites involved in similar finanancial [causing problems]. My research shows that he uses a name similar to a reputable firm connected to finance - such as your goodselves - to set up a site. The site, a clone of others no doubt, seems to operate automatically in the taking of the unlawfeel fees, and to have an address where a person (possibly only one person to keep costs down) handles any complaints, and seemingly to pay back any complainant that may pose a threat to the licence, and to ignore and retain the money of those who make it obvious that they do not know how to pose a threat to the licence - the sites phone number may well be making a lot money off those who wait long periods to make contact using the sites premium rate number. The use of similar names must be damaging the business of the genuine trading companies associated by similarity of name. And it seems that this may happen nationwide in the UK, if not right across Europe, if the number of websites, over 5,000, is anything to go by. If I was in a trade association - I'd start one if I was being affected and no trade association existed - I would set out to ensure that Mr Bart Croughs multitude of online sites did not continue to threaten my business. But The Office of Fair Trading may indeed be the best place to start ensuring that your business, financial business in general in the UK, does not continue to suffer. If the scale of Mr CrougH's involvement and profitting from this [problem] is as his number of sites would suggest, the OFT may well ensure UK and even European legal agencies become involved to permit genuine businesses to trade unaffected. So protect your business WFS, and the reputation of UK financial businesses in general, and by taking this threatener of your business to task!

ickleseamus, the licence that Wentworth Direct Finance hold, and must hold to continue to hold to trade if they want to stay out of prison, is issued by the OFT, The Office of Fair Trading. According to the licence issued to credit brokers, and to ensure that they are indeed genuine credit brokers having the skills and knowledge to ensure their clients do in fact have a chance of actually getting a loan, they are not allowed by law, the Consumer Protection Act 1974, to EVEN ASK for any up front fees : the only thing the law allows them to ask a customer for is a 'token fee' of £5, but ONLY if they have been unsuccessful in getting the client a loan, and ONLY after six months of trying. If you go to the OFT, you can do it online, and tell them that Wentworth have asked you for an up front fee which they refuse to return to you,Wentworth will loose their licence. But what you will probably find is that Wentworth will claim a clerical error to the OFT and promise to and actually return your money - they want to keep their licence to carry on doing what they do But that will not get rid of these jackals who prey on people for an illegal fee in the knowledge that a great percentage will not know how to contest their illregality, and so keep the money rolling in . Contact the OFT, tell them that you, along with many other people, have had a large fee taken, the return of your money will follow. Everybody who has had this happen to them is entitled to and will receive their money back with the help of the OFT

Wonderwoman, I noticed the 'Direct Debit without permission' thread after posting information on the 'Wenworth Finance' thread. Incidently, it did allow an online friend to get his money back off this company, and I hope it also helps many others to get their money back

'Direct Debit without permission thread'

Buzby, Wonderwoman's contract had run its course (a perfect example of an obvious fact if you care to read her post). The addition of 3 months cannot be arbitrarily thrust onto a contract. The contract had run its course, so any thing other than wonderwoman actually signing a new contract with a new direct debit agreement becomes simply a means for levering open a route to wonderwoman's money - a lever to permit theft. If this is not an 'obvious fact' to you I begin to believe that unless an obvious fact runs up and bites your bum you will ignore it , unless of course you are desirous of choosing to see it. I'm sorry I am losing the will to live faced by such inane hostility to what was a serious attempt to help another human being. If you two harpies ever get around to an objective acceptance/valuation of the world in which the rest of us poor sods have to live, please don't email me to tell me as the shock will undoubtedly kill me. NO MORE REPLIES WILL BE MADE TO INANITIES

If somebody gets into your cache of money after you have closed your pocket and takes money without your 'knowledge, ecpectation nor consent' that is theft - whatever intrepetation other than theft that you and buzby care to put on what has happened when this ocurs, it is defined in law as theft. Using half-baked notions of how the 'system actually operates (in your opinion) that the CPS will not...' whatever, has absolutely no bearing on the advice I gave wonderwoman - practical advice, gained from a knowledge of the law available to anyone by googling, thanks to the current government having put all laws online and in an easily accessible manner, and which both you and buzby would do well to read. Once a theft has been committed - the 'wronfully debiting of one account to the credit of another' in this case, and a direct contravention of The Theft Act - a crime has been committed, and you do not need the CPS to decide vwhether or not a crime has been committed if the definition of the crime is written in black and white in front of your incredulous eyes! Instead of ringing 'crimestoppers' (no reference to what the CPS may or may not do required) I did what common sense bid me to do and wrote to The Chief Costable of the area where the firm that had committed the offence was based. And I had my money that had been stolen by theft (I can think of no other description that might truly define what happened) returned within the week of writing. I did not check on the press local to the company to see if anyone had had their collar felt. Wonderwoman, half-baked notions of how the law supposedly works and strident negativity will get you no where. I have no vested interest in your following the advice I gave, other than hoping you get your money back quickly, and that it might hopefully prevent similar behaviour by the company in future - and it is for these ends alone that I am willing to take the time to offer positive and effective advice.

Buzby, I cannot imagine, have no idea what your vested interest may be to for you to want to so stridently belittle the advice I gave in good faith to wonderwoman? It was advice given from experience that I believed would be helpful. And banks are interested in any abuse of the direct debit system, and to prevent it becoming so abused as to become useless. Are you the fitness club owner? Do you have customers that you do similar things to? I can assure you that, once written to, a Chief Constable will not ignore the letter. I can assure also that what was said is valid and you may check the validity yourself, any one may,by googling The Theft Act. If you do not own the club, or do not do similar things to customers you have,please do so, because I feel immense sympathy and sorrow for any poor soul that exists in such a state of negativity without cause.

Maverick 9 I have just put a copy of your last years post on the current Wentworth Finance postings, hope you don't mind

Found this post under 'Has anyone heard of Castlefinance' posted by Maverick9 last year "just to update on the information about these companies - i have managed to talk to someone who actually fields calls at a central call centre for wentworth. wentworth have no actual phone numbers they do not issue them as they do not want the public to be able to harass them for the shoddy practises they have. anyway i managed to find out that after they have passed your details out to all unsundry they then hold your broker fee for a minimum of six months! how many people would pursue these people when they can not be spoken to for six months this is what they count on to keep your money - so although i did not get any numbers i did get the name of the refund manager so that all correspondance sent goes directly to her and that usually when you write and complain strongly enough then they will refund the money before the six months are up so start writing your complaint letters to jenny sheppard refunds department wentworth direct finance freepost sea 9712 wrotham road gravesend kent DA13 0BR good luck to anyone needing this information and i hope you get your money back" [i advised an online friend last week to write explaining the contravention of The Theft Act to Wentworth at the address given on the website (did not know of this lady) and I have just found out they have got their money back, and the costs incurred by the overdraft caused by the unlawful taking of money]

Amienice4u, if you tell your your bank that the finance company has misused the direct debit agreeme and to take your money in contravention of their terms of licence, inasmuch as they are only permitted a £5 nominal sum, but then only after 6 month's of legimitate attempts to find a loan for you, then the bank must institute interbank methods for retrieving your money. (Your posting was on page One and I did n't see it earlier,looking at page 2, sorry)