Hi Silverfox, I shall have a look at the T's & C's this week. I shall try and hunt them down online and see what it states. Thanks

Hi Me_Too, Sorry about the late reply. I firmly believe this is mis-selling by BT but they don't appear to be interested in what we have to say. As soon as my contract ends (if I can't get out of it prior) I shall be cancelling and moving to another company that is half the price and just as reliable!

Hi everyone, I've been a BT customer for the past couple of years. My Phone/Broadband contract was coming up for renewal so as you do you have a shop about. I found a cheaper deal with Plusnet which I was happy to go with. I phoned BT for my PAC code and a nice lady then started to try and talk me out of leaving. She offered a discount on my current monthly bill (I had to sign up for another 12 months), free caller display for 12 months and the full BT Sports free for 12 months (inc ESPN). Great I'll stay with you for another 12 months then! A month into my new contract I check my bill only to find I had been charged for my caller display. I phoned BT and they apologised and said no further charges would apply (Yet to see if I'll get the money I paid credited to my account). I then get an email saying that a new channel is being released and I am going to get charged an extra £5 a month to receive that, BT Sports 2 and ESPN! One of the reasons I signed up was for the full BT Sports package for free for 12 months. Now a month in they are going to give me 1 channel instead of the 3 I was supposed to get. I contacted BT and the guy on the phone told me that at the time of me signing back up it was true that I'd get all the BT Sports channels but now theres been a change and I can either cancel or pay £5 a month. If I'd have known that this was going to be the case I'd have went with Plusnet when I wanted too as it worked out a hell of a lot cheaper for the same products (minus BT Sports 1 which as of August is the only channel I'll get)! An apology from the guy on the phone but basically I was tied into the contract. I feel like I've been tied into a contract in which I haven't signed up to. No doubt they will say its in the T's and C's (and maybe I should have taken more notice of them when reading through them).

Brilliant advice ericsbrother. I am going to speak to the other 2 lads who had the claims cancelled and we will all go to the Whitehaven News and give our story. I'll post a link once it goes live

Yep a defence was put in. I gave the missus the good news when she got back off her placement and she was chuffed to bits. I then said we were going to go for costs against WHC as a lot of time and effort had gone into all of this. She said not to do it. She just wanted it over and done with. The thing is it never cost her a penny but why should they get away with causing distress to my partner. The time I've taken to research and write to them. To defend the claim. To take pictures in their car parks. Postage costs. I have a friend willing to sort a letter out for a claim so I shall be back once we have sorted that.

I fully agree. 3 of us got the cancellation letters today. Celia had a busy Friday

True, I do have better things to do but I quite enjoyed seeing what they were coming up with just to fire them back down. I couldn't have done it with out you lot though

We are looking into going to the Whitehaven News regarding this (us and my friend who also received the notice of discontinuance). Especially since this was published not long ago http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/we-ll-pursue-unpaid-car-parking-fines-1.1093482

Well I've just got home and we've got the same 'Notice of discontinuance' through the post. We've beat them without going anywhere near a court room. Thank you to everyone who helped us out over the past few weeks, it really has been appreciated

Morning all, Just had some good news regarding Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners. A friend of mine was going through the same rigmarole as we are and he had his court date coming up next week (we've just recieved ours for February next year). He opens his post this morning and received an early Christmas present from Celia at Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners http://goo.gl/7xShnL Why would they do this if they had the rights to claim all the money?? Oh yeah because they know its a con and are now backing down to the people who stand their ground! EDIT I have the Byelaws!!! http://goo.gl/0oPSMj For some reason I thought this was going to a bit more up to date. The following is the response I recieved via email: As per your request, please find attached our byelaws currently held by the Secretary of State for Transport. We are currently re-drafting our byelaws and will be seeking stakeholders' comments during 2014. Yours sincerely Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners

Morning people, I'm not sure how they are going to use the balance of probabilities as it was a Saturday and both of us were in the car. We are both insured to drive and both do drive the car. To me that balance is a 50/50 split haha. Yes their paperwork is completely non compliant with the PoFA and I have all copies of the paper work sitting in a draw ready to hand a judge to back up that claim. The signage is still showing penalty and I may go and get more pictures today (you can never have too much ammo). They continue to withhold their Byelaws and their breakdown of charges. I personally can't see this getting as far as the court room (I think they will cancel the claim due to all of the above) and to be fair I would be quite gutted if it was cancelled. I'm looking forwardto arguing the case as I've spend quite a lot of time getting to grips with the PoFA and investigating flaws in their paperwork and procedures. I've also enjoyed this thread as the kindness and information from the CAG family is second to none.

Everything I've requested via email (including the appeal that they ignored) is stored in a folder online for future reference

Good morning all, The story so far. Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners have said that they won't give us the Byelaws as they as due to change in a few months! I got in touch with the records office (Whitehaven) and they said they didn't hold them but I should be able to request them without problem from WHC under the FOIA. I'm going to contact WHC again today requesting the Byelaws under the FOIA and see what they say today. I've been round to the car park in question and one of the wall signs has had the word penalty removed. The other 2 signs still have penalty written all over them. I've written to the court (and CC'ed WHC) with all the info and brilliant advice I've received from here. I've said they are non compliant with the PoFA and highlighted numerous times where they have quoted penalty. I shall follow it up with any findings I get with the byelaws (I wanted to get something in now as I'm getting nowhere with getting the byelaws at the minute). Well that's where I'm up to people. Thank you all again for the brilliant advice and understanding you have given me. I'll post back once I find anything else out. Have a great weekend

Thanks topcat, I never knew that. I'll see what Monday brings and go down that road if needs be. Thanks

Morning all, WHC contacted us yesterday afternoon but we couldn't speak (we had to go out). They are calling us back on Monday so I shall see what they say. If they are still not forthcoming then I shall request the information under the FOIA and if they still fail to provide us with the byelaws then I shall add your paragraph into my letter and also fire a complaint into the ICO. I'll report back on Monday. Have a great weekend all

Hi, Well so far I've got nowhere. The DVLA are wanting money to divulge how Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners got our details (£5 which I don't mind paying but it's info that should be free!) Just got back from the Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners office and they refused to give us a copy of the byelaws. They wanted to know who we were and what we wanted them for. They then said they needed to speak to the Chief Executive (Celia MacKenzie, hi if you're reading this by the way) and she would say if we could have them or not! Well that's where I'm up to, I've read the PoFA numerous times and got my head around most of that so will love to fight them with it if they decide to do court. Also my letter to the Reply to Defence is more or less done (a few changes to what I posted earlier) so that will be getting fired out to the court and WHC next week. I just can't believe they refused to give us a copy of the byelaws.

Ah that makes sense now. Thanks Old snowy.

I've sent them an email so let's see what I get back. If I get nothing by Friday I'll go down and ask for a copy. I also have no idea what NDPB stands for :-\

Brilliant. A request will go in now

I don't mind a small charge for printing them for me (understandable). Or would they have them electronically that I could request via email? I've never asked for byelaws before so not sure (sorry if my question seems a little dumb).

Thanks to both of you. I will call by the WHC office this week and request a copy of the byelaws. Once I've got them I'll scan them up on here for you both to see. The Reply I'm doing is merely about how they are wrong with respect of trying to hide behind the PoFA. It has never been mentioned in the previous letter or from them and was only mentioned when I challenged them to tell me how they were going to claim against the registered keeper when they had no rights to do so. They drop PoFA into the frame thinking that it will cover them but it will not as they are non compliant and out with their times. (massively). Penalty splatter all over it hasn't helped them also and as they have failed to give a full breakdown of costs I'll argue until I'm blue in in the face that this is never a pre-estimate of loss but a penalty (as they have highlighted to me). I'm hoping the byelaws will be the last nail in the coffin. Thanks to you both again and I'll post back once I have the byelaws *EDIT - Just a quick thought, I can just walk in their and ask for a copy which will be freely available? Or will I have to request it under some freedom act or something? I don't want to walk in there, ask for a copy, they say no, I walk out, they laugh.....

Thanks Old snowy. I'll amend parts of my letter and look at anything else that needs added in the next few days. I have added a CC of Northampton court and I have a copy of everything to send them. With regard to the DVLA access for 'reasonable cause', what would you class as a resonable cause? We've fired a request into the DVLA and they are hopefully getting back to me within 3 working days. So the main bulk of the letter is their failure to comply with PoFA. I've tried to put as much in about that but I will add to it to emphasise the fact. I should hopefully be in town this week and I will pop in and ask for a copy of the Byelaws. No doubt they will offer me a cuppa tea and a biscuit when I tell them my name Again thank you kindly for your help.

The letter I have drafted up to reply to WHC is as follows (I've borrowed parts from this thread) Thank you for your reply to defence dated 13/11/2013. I would like to draw it to your attention your point number 3. You have stated that a section of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and said in this case it is relevant. I would like to inform you it is not due to you being noncompliant. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 requires all of your paperwork to be compliant with the act. Your paperwork has fell short of this on the following grounds. You firstly give a ticket on the 13/04/13. This then should be followed up with a Notice to Keeper. All we received was a letter demanding money and this was not received until 12/08/13. The purported Notice to Keeper is noncompliant with the provisions of para.8(2)(a - i) Sch.4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Firstly it was served out of time (the relevant period ended on 8 June and it was dated 12 August) and it is missing almost all of the requirements of the above section, it extends no discount period to the keeper, offers no invitation to identify and provide an address for service of the driver and incorporates no evidence. If the letter was not a Notice to Keeper but a letter before action then it fails to conform to the Practice Direction on Pre-action Protocols. Therefore the case is flawed in the respect of pursuing the registered keeper via the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. If it was a letter before action and the Notice to Keeper is what you have included in your reply to defence then it has been served out of time (the relevant period ended on 8 June 2013) Due to your paperwork being noncompliant with the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 this bars you from using the act in this case and therefore you cannot make a claim against the registered keeper but only the driver. As we have previously said there were 2 of us in the car on 13/04/13, both of us are insured to drive the car and both of us do drive the car regularly. You cannot prove who the driver was and as stated and accepted by you we will not be divulging this information to you. In point number 2 you have said you can access the DVLA database but if it is for the pursuance of a parking charge (which this is) you can only access the database if you are a BPA member or a member of the AOS. If you have accessed the database claiming a byelaw has been breached then this is misuse of the DVLA system. I have continually asked for a breakdown of your charges. You are demanding money from us but yet you will not prove that your charge is a pre-estimate of loss. I have also attached your Notice to Keeper as it states you are actually pursuing a Penalty Enforcement Notice. Penalties in a contract render this charge unenforceable. I have also attached a photo of one of your signs at the Tangier Street Car Park. As you can see this also states you are claiming penalties. Due to all of the above I request that this is struck out due to the fact it is vexatious as Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners have failed to follow the procedures of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 and so is not entitled to pursue the Registered Keeper in absence of having the driver's details. Also they are claiming a penalty as they will not provide a breakdown to their charge, their paperwork and signage (copies of Whitehaven Harbour Commissioners paperwork and signage attached). Kind regards,

It was based on the fact that they could only pursue the driver and that we would not be telling them this. Their charge being deemed a penalty (a full breakdown has been asked for a few times now and they ignore the request). I quoted a few things from VCs vs Ibbotson here. They ignored our appeal when we sent it in August (a reply to that and we could have avoided all this mess). How they got our details from the DVLA (which they don't appear to be telling the truth on this one). we have requested the info from the DVLA, I will keep you posted on that one. They are the land owner. Its around £1 an hour to park in their carparks. we overstayed (which we do not deny) but if they had ticketed us for around £2 (the hour charge and a little admin charge) then we would have paid it and that would have been the end of that. they are trying to show themselves as a parking company like APCOA (who used to look after the carparks for them)

Hi Old Snowy, So far I have added a defence and then filled in the questionnaire (closest court, we do not want mediation etc) and fired that back to the court and WHC. I am currently writing a letter stating how they have messed up and if you don't mind I will add parts of your reply (I wasn't sure about the dates but you've listed then which is great). I shall send this to the court and WHC via recorded post. What else do I need to do? Also thank you for your help. The balance of probabilities - I have told WHC that 2 of us were in the car that day (which is true as it was a Saturday we went shopping) and we are both licensed and insured to drive the car. I drive that car as much as my partner does on the weekend so it could have been either of us driving the vehicle. To me that is a 50/50 split is it not?