Good point from Fantasy Charges re advertising. The ASA has a better record of 'using it's teeth' than many of the quangos, but it does need a complaint....... David

On the thread starter I asked what were the chances of certain c/c companies, 1) Being able to come up with an agreement that is enforceable, 2) Being able to come up with ANY agreement. The general consensus was, not very likely. The dates of the start of the various accounts were a bit of a guesstimate. However, I had the idea of sending a credit file request to a CRA, so I could find out first without hitting the companies head on (ie a CCA) Bingo, the actual start dates are: HFC - 02/07/95 MBNA - 22/08/97 AMEX - 06/10/99 CAP 1 - 31/03/99 Don't fancy HFC's chances!! David

To SNPL As per prev post, Building Socs. never register with CRA's as they were worried that other lenders would market their customers. Standard practice with banks has always been to register everything inc. mortgages. Abbey is now Bank of Santander. David

That Goldlady is a very, very good point!!! Rang your neighbours.........jeez David

Had a look again at the 1st post I did when I joined the forum. It was basically an information post as , in the past I had worked in finance and had some knowledge of how DCA's operated. In the post (CRA Reports, 08 11 07, 'Cashins'), I mentioned in passing why most mortgages don't appear on credit reports. The reason is: "that Building Societies are very protective of their customer details and don't want to put the on what is effectively an open forum for lenders" That surely has to prove the point! Regards

My thinking is to go after MBNA first as 1) Its a big debt, 2) its so old and from what I'm hearing on this site, their admin is no good. Suprises me slightly as they are very aggressive on default. (He who shouts the loudest is probably going to get paid 1st, if anyone is.) Think they may well be up next. Regards David

Yes, Brown does have kids (1), I seem to recall they also had another that was stillborn or died, (definately not a joking matter). It could be said that, with all thats come out of the woodwork since Mr Slippery did a bunk, he has definately been left holding the baby! Regards

I currently have a CCA request going against Natwest/Newmans which has 6 days to run, until the 30 are up. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! Of my creditors, I started on them as the DCA got up my nose, however the others were all signed up a long time ago. I remember seeing a post (Tomterm8 I think) some time ago saying 5+ year old Barclaycard Ags had a problem, does anyone have any ideas on these: MBNA - 1998 GM Card (HFC) - 1998 Amex - 2000? Cap 1 - 2001 Any help would be appreciated and it will give me something to do occupy my mind!! Regards

Has anybody seen the irony of a Quasi Autonomous body, (as it says on the tin), investigating data protection issues, when it is very obvious the the government itself has not a clue itself how to handle data? Regards

Thanks Hippy, and Happy New Year to you. Regards David

Something may be stirring. Couple of phone calls yesterday that my wife took. Left no contact number and both callers made excuses and rang off when asked to identify themselves. If they do reach me on the phone, my understanding is that best policy; either refuse to confirm your identity and hang up, or tell them to put it in writting and hang up. I don't currently have a tele recorder and I think I better get one pronto! David

WHAT! That's an excellent late present. Thanks yet again David

Merry Christmas and thanks again all. The business of trying to 'get out from under', takes no holidays!! CCA request on this defaulted 12 December and working days less stat. holidays, means 30 days are up 25 Jan. Will keep you posted on developements. Regards David ps Have a good NEW YEAR

Thanks for your advice Dave and also to Rory for clarifiying the point that the CCA request for that account is in default, not just Newmans. Timescales I have by the way are 12 days + 2 = default on CCA request. Additional 30 days = Offence under Consumer Credit Act. If correct? Can Natwest argue for additional time as sent to Newmans originally? Regards David

Have a debt through a NatWest C/C originally taken out around 1999. Balnce is around £9,500 and I defaulted 18 months ago. The story so far: Natwest banged on just about every charge they could think of and then put it out to Mercers. I was paying Mercers around £45 per month for a year, until 1 payment was missed, (not deliberate and not my fault), it then it went to Newman and co who wanted all the money as in, NOW. Soooooooooooo, I told Newman to @x#"~x@# and sent them a CCA by next day delivery. Deathly silence for 22 days now. I don't think Newmans can come up with it and I am not convinced NatWest can either. I have not paid Newmans, so don't care about them, but that leaves Mercers and Natwest. I am tempted to cut a long story short and send send Natwest a CCA request and find out. Is this a good idea? Regards

You (collective) have obviously delved deeper into the shadowy connections between CRA's, DCA's and Credit Providers. The simplest form of abuse of CIFAS information I have seen, (I have worked for 3 Finance companies including a NatWest one), is unless a credit application is for a LOT of money, if it comes back with a CIFAS flag, they bin it and go onto the next one. (What they are supposed to do is investigate and report back to CIFAS). If so, it means that a system that is supposed to protect both the Credit Industry and YOU, can stop you getting credit! Both the OFT and Data Protection have questioned the validity of some CIFAS information in the past, (is it real or just suspicion). Now you have really got me worried!!!

Has anyone ever sent a SAR to CIFAS and if so what was the result? Anyone unaware of this organisation and what it does, should have a look at Welcome to CIFAS Online - CIFAS Online. DCA's cannot be members of this organisation, but the potential for abuse by credit providers themselves is much greater. Regards

Thanks for the advice guys. Finally bitten the bullet and sent off the agreement request today. We will see. Regards

Aktiv Thanks for the suggestion. Can you still go after them for charges in view of the current situation on bank charges? Regards

Hi I have had 12 years experience working in consumer credit, (Retail -High St and Personal Loan), with some big names up untill 4 years ago. I was a Sales Manager, (another post I think, which will help to clarify why companies do what they do). Being new, Iv'e gone through a lot of posts and think I can add some information, If it's already there and Iv'e missed it, please don't shoot the messager, I am just trying to give something back for the valuable help I am getting! Credit Reports: The main reason that entrys appear on say Experian and not Equifax is that information passed between CRA's and lenders is reciprocal. This means that if you want to use Equifax your are contracted to provide account information to them, but to them alone. This also explains by the way why mortgages from many Building Socs. do not appear. They regard protecting their customer base more important and will not share that information on what is effectively an open forum for lenders. (This is the one of the main reasons that mortgage fraud was so easy in the late eighties/nineties). Mortgages through a bank will normally show up. Exept for Mortgages, large ammounts, (definition is by lender), or some types loans, the systems lenders use are automated, it says yes, no or refer. If refered that is the only time a human actually looks at the report. Is everyone aware of the significance of the line (hopefully) of zeros that appear regarding a particular account? These signify the payment record, a '1' means that a payment has been missed, a '2' is 2 payments missed and a '3' is 3 down (as its called). The point I am making here is that you don't need defaults or CCJ's to be refused! Unless it is persistant, the odd '1' appearing is disregarded, as its often a direct debit screw up anyway. If '2' and '3' are showing up, you can forget it. The underwriter makes a descision based on 'exposure' (yours, how much do you owe and can you pay it). As said, they can't see everything so for instance they will often assume there is an average value mortgage (be fair on that one, it's not their fault). Payment record is a factor, then of course defaults, CCJ's etc. CCJ's: A single low value CCJ will often be ignored if otherwise the track record is good. Lenders are well aware of the activities and practices of catalogue companies and the like. It doesn't really matter if a CCJ is flagged as satisfied, again forget it. Defaults, ditto. Searches: There is a very good reason that if you have searched your own file it is flagged a such, also seaches done for system test purposes, (which have to be real people to work), do not appear. Multiple searches within a short timescale are a reason for rejection with most Lenders. Often when someone is rejected, they try again and again not realising that they actually are making matters worse! Before someone asks, test saearches are done by companies to dry run new or modified systems. Its done with consent and is usually their own staff. This system has been abused in the past and got stamped on hard. I doubt if it could happen now, however if one door shuts, another normally opens. Hope this has been of help. Regards

Thanks for your help people. Could you elaborate on the no signature/different signature bit, whats the pitfall here? (being dumb again) Thinking of using one of the Word 'joined up writing' fonts or generating a electronic signature for letters Cheers

Hi I'm new, so I hope I am not asking for info that I should have been able to find in other posts. I had a NatWest C/card dating from around 1997 owing around £9,500, which has been on a voluntary agreement (£32.50 per month) for about 18 months, along with around £50k's worth of other debt with other companies. RBOS only went along with this when they realised that they were on their own and the others had agreed. It went to Westcot but recently it's gone to Newmans and off we went again. After joining the forum and learning the implications of a CCA Request it seems they would be a good place to start. Having worked for a Natwest Group company and taking into account the takeover and rationalisation I would frankly be amazed if they could find a 10 year old application/agreement? let alone pass it on to Newmans! A CCA request to Newmans would seem in order but I could use some advise as I have seen a number of versions and I also need to get the do's & don'ts right. Sorry if it's a dumb request but it is kinda important to get it right. Thanks in advance

Hi all, I have a total of around £60k of debt, (7 creditors), all unsecured mostly the result of credit cards and personal loan that got out of control when I got divorced and a couple of years later lost my job. Just to prove it can happen to anyone, (in my case who should have known better), I worked for a total of 17 years for 3 CONSUMER CREDIT COMPANIES! I have had many DCA's chasing me, rotating now and again to have another go but after 2 years I am still on agreed payments totaling £220 per month for the lot. The insults however, still rankle which is why I am here. Despite my time in the business, I had never heared of CCA requests, SAR's or the like being used as a defence. Bearing in mind, 2 of the companies had 1200+ staff and it can only be on a need to know basis (I have never worked in collections) as if you tell that lot, the whole world will know pretty soon. Reading some of the posts regarding phone calls where the caller says they have never heard of CCA requests and that the average stay of staff in those jobs is around 3 months, it could very well be true in some cases! In my case, with multiple creditors, staying out of court has involved some brinkmanship but the principle is sound. They all want a statement of income/payments, so they all know the situation. If Paul starts legal action and I rob Peter to pay them, Peter will take legal action. If any company goes legal, there isn't much point in paying anyone and that would bring the house of cards down anyway, so whats the point. Sooner or later however one will break ranks and say enough is enough and thats also why this site is a breath of fresh air for me along with all the charges they kept piling on when I was struggling.