Yes, I think you are right. It's really easy to be intimidated by these companies and their solicitors because they seem to know all the facts. Since reading the comments on these forums though, including your own, have realised that isn't always the case. One thing I would like to say is I think I have (unintentionally) been guilty of 'highjacking' threads, which I really haven't meant to do. I now realise I should be posting a new thread! This is the first time I have used any forum, so apologies for that. YOU have all been so helpful and I will keep you posted on the outcome of this. Magda

Thanks for that. Was just a bit worried because 1st Credit's solicitor pointed out the 'Consumer Credit Agreement' wording today, and said that if I wanted to defend their claim then to go ahead, but the form they sent (posted on the forum today) was all they needed to take court action, so it's nice to know that they are basically talking rubbish. I will get that letter off tomorrow re: Having a Nightmare (thanks ) and hopefully that will give them something to think about! Magda

Actually, just one more question, doesn't it matter that is says it is a consumer credit agreement at the top of the application form, I picked up a credit card application at the supermarket earlier, and they now seem to have the application on one side, i.e. all the personal info like the copy of the form I posted and then, terms and conditions on the back which needs to also be signed. Just worried that they will say their form was in this format and that in actual fact the copy I have had covers their obligation as far as the CCA is concerned. Sorry to be a pain! Magda

thanks so much for that - will get a letter off to them tomorrow. It's fantastic to have this forum, otherwise we would be completely stuck, and I certainly need all the help I can get! Thanks for all the replies, Magda

nothing at all about any APR or anything else

No,nothing at all, that final paragraph after 'safeguard your payments' is just saying that you confirm you wish to apply for an mbna credit card that is it, although it does say I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the mbna terms and conditions, although I hadn't received these

sorry, it's a bit small isn't it! the info is on the form is mostly just what I filled in, i.e. name and address etc, income, dob, that kind of thing, then additional card holder and the payment protection thing, then my signature, I really appreciate all the comments today, it really is a massive help, so thanks again Magda

nothing at all, just something about payment protection if you require it, and the rest is just personal details magda

Hi again, thanx a lot for the replies, have scanned it in, not sure if you will be able to read it or if I have done it correctly, but here goes, (by the way, there weren't any terms of conditions attached/enclosed) This was basically it. Magda

Just to add something, have spoken to the creditor'S solicitors since making the post above, and they are dealing with my enquiry for a cca (I believe they are itching to take me to court at present, although I make regular payment (another creditor wanting a charge on an unsecured debt). The person acting for the firm of solicitors has said that the application is a consumer credit agreement and they do not need to provide anything else in order to take me to court. I disputed this and said that it is infact an application, containing only pesonal information and nothing on how the account would operate post contractually. The person said as it has my signature on the application I agreed to the debt, and also she pointed out the fact that it states on the application form "Credit Agreement regulated by the consumer credit Act 1974. I left it that I will write putting my case forward to them. Really grateful if you can help with this, Many thanks, Magda

Hi, wonder if you can help, I have CCA'd one of my creditors - 1st Credit Finance Ltd and today received a copy of the Priority Application Form, signed by me, which states at the top Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, followed by "How to Apply" It is then just a standard application form, i.e., which on completion I signed. Is this actually a consumer credit agrement as the creditor claims? Thanks for any help. Magda

thanx car2403 for your reply yesterday, it's a big help, as at the moment I am trying to find out as much as I can about the legalities of the overdraft, as the bank have been particularly unpleasant recently. I will now write to them again, and hopefully will have a better response this time. Not holding my breath though! Good luck with Barclays. Thanks again Magda

Hi, I posted recently about a problem with a Bank o/d, and was given some very helpful info. Just wanted to quote the comments made in the last letter received from Natwest to find out if they are in fact correct. It states: "You requested a copy of the letter sent to you when you converted your account to and advantage premier in July 2002, regrettably, due to the passage of time this document is no longer available. However, I would refer to the ledgers provided with my letter which clearly state the interest rate being applied to it. The bank switched to a new computer system in october 2002, and messages about interest rate applicable to your account were printed on the information sheet issued with statements." I switched my account as they clearly state in July 2002 prior to their change of computer system, and I did not as far as I recall, receive anything in writing re: terms of the account and overdraft, which was also changed at this point. the copy statements issued by the bank dating back to July 2002, when account was apparently changed do state that the interest rate for borrowing was 8.5% and interest rate for borrowing above this level 22.5% PA. Does this satisfy their obligation re: CCA. Thanks for any help Magda

Hi Car2403, as my bank haven't managed to provide a copy of anything in writing which it clearly states they should,(apart from copy statements) I would think I can then use this as a defence also if they decide to pursue court action, I knew what the interest rate was at the time, but I did not receive anything advising me on how to terminate the agreement and when the account fell into difficulties, I was not informed of the interest and charges applicable either. Good luck with your case against Barclays by the way! Magda

Hi, yes, it does seem pretty complicated compared to other consumer credit agreements, but the bank do seem to have gone very quiet since writing to say they don't have a copy of the letter sent at the time of the overdraft being granted, I'm sure it won't be too long before they are back in touch again though! Many thanks for your comments. Magda

Hi, thanks for that, I have been making regular payments and wasn't trying to ignore the debt, but as they have been so threatening recently, just wanted to know what my position is with regard to the bank being able to legally enforce the debt so thanks for your comments and I would be grateful for any other opinions/comments on this. thanks, Magda

Hi, Can anyone help. I have requested a CCA from my bank for an overdraft, as I believe there should be a letter detailing the terms and conditions of the overdraft at the time. However, the bank have written back stating that they no longer have a copy of this letter as their computer system was changed. They seem to think that the copy statments and printouts of the day to day activity on the account at that time are sufficient (the statments do show (at the bottom) the interest rate being charged on the overdraft during that period. Is this correct and is the debt still enforceable without the letter, as the bank have been particularly unpleasant and threatening recently, prior to my request for the CCA. Many thanks, Magda

Thanks for that Debtsurvivor. I guess my overdraft would be deemed to be a consumer credit agreement then, as we were offered an overdraft at a set amount (£7500) and stayed within that figure, until the account hit problems, at which point the bank added our charge card debt onto the overdraft (as we did not have sufficient funds within the account to settle it) which then caused it to exceed the agreed level. The bank have informed me that their only obligation now is to provide details of the outstanding balance and the rate of interest currently being charged. Still not quite sure how to proceed now though. Magda

Hi, what is the situation with Natwest so far. I have been having similar problems, Advantage Gold Premier account. Natwest state there isn't a CCA for overdrafts. I requested a copy of the original letter that would have been sent at the time of the overdraft being agreed , but received a letter today stating that due to the passage of time (and the fact that they changed their computer system around that time) they don't have it. Apparently I should now be satisfied with the copy statments of account dating back to the 1990's (it will take me a couple of years to look through them all!) They have fulfilled their obligation to me and that is that as far as they are concerned. Can you suggest where I should go next with this. Thanks, Magda

Hi, can anyone please help. I had a further letter from Nwest today. They do not have the letter originally sent to me (due to the passage of time) which was sent when we converted our account to a different one offered by Nwest, detailing terms and conditions and interest rates etc, relating to the a/c and overdraft. The bank states that they have sent me print outs of my account statements dating back to this period and this basically is good enough. Is this correct and is this debt enforceable without the letter, which they obviously do not have. Also, I received a letter from the Recovery manager a while ago stating that interest now being charged is zero and the balance had not increased. However, according to the letter received today, while the debt is in the hands of their temporary debt collector (unidebt, part of NatWest bank) the interest is frozen, and the debt has reduced by over £600, but (to quote Natwest ) "if it is referred back to this office today, then the outstanding balance with rise accordingly" by almost £9000, as the backdated interest will then be applied. Surely it must either be one thing or the other and they either add interest or they don't. Would be very grateful for your comments. Many thanks Magda

Hi, can anyone please help. I had a further letter from Nwest today. They do not have the letter originally sent to me (due to the passage of time) which was sent when we converted our account to a different one offered by Nwest, detailing terms and conditions and interest rates etc, relating to the a/c and overdraft. The bank states that they have sent me print outs of my account statements dating back to this period and this basically is good enough. Is this correct and is this debt enforceable without the letter, which they obviously do not have. Also, I received a letter from the Recovery manager a while ago stating that interest now being charged is zero and the balance had not increased. However, according to the letter received today, while the debt is in the hands of their temporary debt collector (unidebt, part of Natwest bank) the interest is frozen, and the debt has reduced by over £600, but (to quote Natwest ) "if it is referred back to this office today, then the outstanding balance with rise accordingly" by almost £9000, as the backdated interest will then be applied. Surely it must either be one thing or the other and they either add interest or they don't. Would be very grateful for your comments. Many thanks Magda

Hi, thanks for your posts and sorry I haven't replied sooner. I have received a reply from Natwest (on behalf of Unidebt) as I complained about Unidebt's threatening and unpleasant behaviour etc... and it was passed to someone in the customer care team at Nwest to deal with (Unidebt are their inhouse recovery team). I also received a letter from their recovery manager, who confirmed that a CCA is not available for an overdraft and they are merely required by law to give a statement of account (which is all that is required under the CCA) They have therefore provided details of the o/s balance, interest currently being charged, which is apparently zero. Apparently that is all that's required of them. With regard to the charge card, although that is covered by a CCA, they state that as the debt for the card was transferred by the bank onto our overdraft, it is not covered either, as this left the card with a zero balance and the account was closed. The customer care team have informed us that they are still charging interest which has boosted the debt to £25000 plus. When I mentioned the letter stating zero interest was being applied, they were very surprised and said they would have to look into it! However, I have this in black and white. I am a bit confused now as to whether the overdraft should be covered by a CCA or not and would appreciate your comments. Thanks for your help so far. Magda

Hi, thanks for your posts and sorry I haven't replied sooner. I have received a reply from NatWest (on behalf of Unidebt) as I complained about Unidebt's threatening and unpleasant behaviour etc... and it was passed to someone in the customer care team at Nwest to deal with (Unidebt are their inhouse recovery team). I also received a letter from their recovery manager, who confirmed that a CCA is not available for an overdraft and they are merely required by law to give a statement of account (which is all that is required under the CCA) They have therefore provided details of the o/s balance, interest currently being charged, which is apparently zero. Apparently that is all that's required of them. With regard to the charge card, although that is covered by a CCA, they state that as the debt for the card was transferred by the bank onto our overdraft, it is not covered either, as this left the card with a zero balance and the account was closed. The customer care team have informed us that they are still charging interest which has boosted the debt to £25000 plus. When I mentioned the letter stating zero interest was being applied, they were very surprised and said they would have to look into it! However, I have this in black and white. The comment from Rory was really helpful, re: Letter of terms and conditions. Is the debt still enforceable if they can't provide this, as they have recently threatened legal action and obtaining a charge on our property, although they would have to get a forthwith judgement first. Thanks for your help so far, it's really appreciated. Magda

Thanks for that N.P. I thought the overdraft would be covered by a CCA as well, but according to Natwest it isn't. I have had some replies which have said I should probably ask for the Account opening application form, rather than the CCA, although the overdraft should still have been confirmed by the Bank in writing at the time, so I should be able to ask for a copy of that. I did ask Natwest for a copy of the letter (confirming the 0/D) recently, and they said they would have to look into it, which probably means they no longer have a copy. I wonder if the debt is still enforceable without this, or the Account opening application form, as they have threatened legal action recently and have said they will attempt to obtain a charge on our home. thanks again, Magda

Hi MrSnooty, Is your debt being handled by their inhouse team 'Unidebt'? I have found them to be really rude and unhelpful, trying to intimidate us into borrowing money against the equity in our home, etc, using the threat of court action and a charge on our propety. I am pretty sure we were informed that the interest had been frozen also, but like you, did not get this in writing! My complaint about the handling of the debt and the interest charges etc is now being handled by their customer care team, I have requested a breakdown of interest charges and an explanation of how the current balance was incurred. They have written and stated that there isn't any CCA for an overdraft, but have stated in the letter that the interest is now frozen and no further charges will be applied, so that is something. They are now also investigating my complaint and should hear back in ten days or so. These people are all oh so caring when taking your money, but not very nice if you hit problems. Good luck with your own situation - keep us informed of what happens.