Well, complaints for both Lloyds TSB and GE Money have been emailed to the ICO over the weekend, so will update as soon as I hear anything.

Magda

In those circumstances then an arrangement to pay flag should be placed on the credit file and if a default is to be issues it should be issued at the start or very close to it of the arrangement, the ICO guidelines are quite clear that a person who is making an attempt to repay his debt should not be placed at a disadvantage compared to someone who just doesnt pay and picks up the default straight away... thats stated clearly in the ICO default guidelines.

 

S.

Hi Shadow, just looking at the old copy of my credit file from 2009, it clearly states on it that the arrangement start date was 2007 and in actual fact, this was just an updated arrangement date, because the arrangement actually began in 2004ish. Lloyds regularly carry out reviews, so I can only think that each time a review was done, the arrangement start date was amended, adding to the confusion. They have said they couldn't enter into an arrangement prior to 2010 because the account hadn't formally been passed (so they say) to the debt recovery dept. This proves that this isn't the case.

Hi all, just in the process of completing the claim form to the ICO and will attach the evidence then and email. Just been looking at the reply I received from Lloyds TSB again. They state: "My understanding of your complaint is that a default was registered on your credit file in 2010. You have stated that this account was defaulted in 2004 and this should be reflected on your credit file. A default notice is issued to inform a customer that an account will be defaulted if it continues to run as it has been. However, the default is not applicable until the account is transferred to our Consumer Debt Recovery Dept." They then go on to say that a solicitor's letter and a DN must be issued before it can be passed to their CDR dept. These were sent in 2010, they say. Would this be evidence enough to put my case to the ICO? Lloyds are basically saying that although a DN was issued in 2004, this was not relevant because the account wasn't passed to their Consumer debt recovery people. I did not rectify the default situation, i.e, I didn't clear the arrears as instructed, I simply made very reduced payments of £5 per month, so the arrears did continue to accrue. Lloyds also say "Your comments regarding the arrears beng cleared have been noted, however, I cannot find any evidence to suggest that this was done against your wishes." They won't find any evidence to show it was done with my consent, either. They simply went ahead and did it, then started reporting adverse information on the credit file. All of our creditors did the same thing, issued a DN and then mostly accepted reduced payments (prior to selling the debts on!). The difference being that late payments were shown and defaults entered on the credit file pretty much straight away, ie., within six months on so. This was then a true reflection of our situation and the Defaults have now dropped off.

Any advice much appreciated.

Magda

I was actually several months in arrears, as we were unable to pay the contractual payment. I then contacted Lloyds, although prior to this we had obviously received the usual letters chasing the debt and pretty sure we also did receive a DN at that time. I then contacted Lloyds and agreed to pay a reduced (very reduced) amount each month, which they accepted. This arrangement continued up until 2009 without any problem, when at this point, Lloyds suddenly said they were clearing all of the arrears on the account (by now, this amounted to five years of missed payments, as we had only been paying a few pounds each month) to give us a 'fresh' start. They did this with a lot of customers around this time. The balance obviously still remained the same, i.e, in excess of £9,000, so clearing the arrears didn't benefit me at all, as I still could only pay the reduced amount, which Lloyds were fully aware of. As a result, Lloyds then said that I had 'new' arrears accruing, and although I continued to make the reduced payments every month, they were showing us as being 4 payments late, and so on, on our credit file. They then issued a second DN. This resulted in a default being registered in 2010. I fail to see how this is fair and many thanks to Shadow and Andy for explaining this. The fact remains that the default occured in 2004 and a payment arrangement was then entered into, but thanks to Lloyds and their recent tactics, I now have the default showing from 2010. Will be interested to see what the ICO make of this because Lloyds are refusing to sort this out.

regards, Magda

The industry norm is for 3 missed repayments and then a default to be issued, after the expiry of the default notice period its applied to your record.

 

The ICO guidelines state a default should be marked no later than 6 months from the default incident, if the company involved could be shown to routinely mark the default after 3 missed repayments but in this instance had waited longer say for example a year or years then I dont think the ICO will be happy at all and would certainly class this as a recording of data that is not accurate or honest.

 

S.

Hi Shadow, many thanks for the info. I didn't object to the original defaults showing on our credit file - we had defaulted and they were entitled to reflect this on our file, but this far down the line, as you say, I'm sure it wouldn't be classed as either accurate or honest as it creates the impression that we defaulted on the account in 2010, whereas the card hasn't even been used since 2003/04, which is when the default did happen. From what Cym says, it was very much the case that Lloyds did routinely issue DN's at the point of default, although they now deny this.

Will get my complaint off to the ICO now (keep meaning to get around to it!) re: Lloyds and GE Money and hopefully may be able to resolve this.

many thanks again, Magda

Thanks Andy, just doesn't make sense, does it, to wait for seven years to place a default of someone's credit file. I'm sure Lloyds will come up with lots of reasons why they acted in a perfectly reasonable manner, but will see what the ICO has to say. At least the GE Money one is a bit more clear cut because I have proof the same account has already shown as a default on my credit file starting in 2004.

Magda

They were issuing them back then, I have quite a nice collection from 2003, all incorrect unless you live in my DJ's world.

Thanks cym, thought that was the case. Lloyds deny ever issuing defaults - they claim this doesn't happen automatically and they often wait until years later when it is placed with their collections people. Odd, considering that I am pretty sure they were chasing the debt pretty much from the off and did issue a default notice.

regards, Magda

My understanding is that the placing of a default marker is dependent on the creditor's own internal procedures. It does not, for example, equate to the first missed payment or the issuing of a default notice. If a default marker was placed on a credit file the instant a payment was missed it would screw millions of people's credit files for years. It is up to the creditor what constitutes a default for the purposes of registration; it might, for example, mean six missed payments in which case it is quite possible a default marker might not be placed for years after the first default if an account has been bumping along at low levels of arrears. To suggest the likes of Lloyds place markers "out of spite" is well wide of the mark. It's all done electronically with no human intervention. Although that does of course still leave room for errors.

Hi, thanks for your comments. However, you say that to place a default on someone's credit file as soon as they miss a payment would completely mess up their credit file, well, likewise, if the creditor waits for six or seven years after the default situation occurred to place a default of that persons file, I think the overall effect is equally, if not more, disastrous. It isn't a true reflection of that person's situation after all. For example, we had financial problems back in 2003/2004 which is when all of the defaults appeared on our credit file, accurately illustrating our financial situation at that time. Those defaults remained on our file for six years and only came off last year. We didn't object to these defaults because they were accurately showing that yes, we had problems in 2004ish and that was absolutely fair. However, Lloyds have been 'messing' about with lots of their customers accounts and this has resulted in defaults being placed six/seven years after the default actually occurred. I fail to see how that is fair or in any way accurate. I have spoken briefly to the ICO about this situation and they did say that to leave the placing of a default for this excessive length of time would be considered unfair. Whether that will be the case when I formally submit my complaint is another matter. I wonder if you would feel any differently about Lloyds if you had managed to make a 'fresh' start as far as your credit file was concerned and one of your creditors, let's say Lloyds, suddenly placed a default on your credit file seven years after the event - don't think you would be too pleased....

regards, Magda

Does anyone know if Lloyds routinely issued DNs back in 2004 if the account fell into arrears for several months. I'm pretty sure they would have, I seem to remember getting a DN from them, and then we agreed at some point to make token payments each month which we have done ever since. I now have proof that the GE account was already defaulted once, prior to being assigned to Link and then sold back to GE as I found an old credit file that clearly shows this. The identical account is now showing as 6 payments in arrears, heading for a default again, so that should be quite easy to sort with the ICO. The Lloyds one is a bit more complicated. They defaulted, we made token payments. Lloyds then cleared the arrears out of the blue and started to show us as being in arrears again, i.e., 1 payment late, 2 payments late and so on. I telephoned them several times and wrote to them asking what was going on and they said that as the account had never formally been passed to their debt recovery people:?: they could no longer accept our payments and that was why it was showing as being in arrears again. They issued a DN and in 2010 a default was placed on the credit file. Not sure how I'm going to prove this as Lloyds say it wasn't defaulted back in 2004, although it would have been, because it was in arrears and we weren't making the payments. Any ideas and does anyone remember what Lloyds policy was regarding issuing default notices? It is annoying that we defaulted on payments in 2004, but the default now showing on the credit file creates the impression that this was in 2010. Haven't even used that card since the end of 2003. Not sure if a SAR would prove very much as I doubt if they have anything going back as far as 2004 now, anyone know if that's the case. Sorry to ask so many questions:-)

Many thanks,

Magda

Will let you know if there are any updates.

Magda

Hi Coledog, Defence has been done as I adapted a previous defence I had used,

but with the relevant changes for this case. A

lso, did a part 18 request a couple of weeks ago, so should hear back on that in the next couple of days or so.

Also waiting to get the response to SAR, which should be in the next couple of days also.

Will let you all know when I get any responses and also will definitely be needing a lot of help along the way!

Will also get around to posting the relevant docs up which I know will make it easier for people to help if all the facts are there.

Many thanks for looking in, will update as soon as I have any news.

regards, Magda

Hi Brigadier, will get my complaint off now to the ICO. Not sure if they will actually do anything, but worth a try to see how it goes.

regards, Magda

Hello all, been having a hunt around and I found an old credit report that clearly shows the GE/FN account on it, this was in 2009. It is showing as a default and says date of default was in 2004. Soon after that it obviously changed, as GE had re-purchased the debt from Link in 2008 and obviously changed my credit file at some point to show that I was six payments in arrears and then this resulted in a default in 2010. GE has said that a default is only valid for a year:???: and that when they re-purchased the account, it still had a balance outstanding that needed to be paid and when it wasn't, it defaulted again..... That is their explanation. They are correct and the entry will stay on the credit file. I am going to send a complaint now to the ICO because I can now send a copy of the old credit file to prove that the entry was shown on my file for six years previously. Also, Lloyds TSB say a similar thing in their response letter: although the account defaulted in 2004, it wasn't actually passed to their debt collection people until 2009, and this has now resulted in a default on our credit file because we started to have 'fresh' arrears on the account with built up to 8 payments late and therefore a default. These people must think we are all complete idiots.

in effect do most of there work for them

S.

Yes, perhaps I should invoice them afterwards:-)

Think you could be right. Will get my M&S court case out of the way, and in the meantime report GE to ICO etc. Then, if there is no progress, maybe time to think about the small claims court as you say.

Maybe that's how things work in GE Land:| Obviously, it must be so if that's what they say...

They don't seem to understand that the account was defaulted, terminated and sold to Link Financial (with a default showing on our credit file) and then following unsuccessful litigation by Link, sold back to GE, who then defaulted it again and placed adverse info on our file stating that we are six payments in arrears and by now, have probably got another default showing.

Like banging your head against a wall, only more painful I imagine:-D

Well, finally got a full response to my complaint made to GE Money, re: incorrect info on my credit file, which as in the case of Beachcomber, started off showing that we are six payments in arrears, even though a default has previously been listed for the same account.

GE Money state that: " A default notice is valid for one year and because no payment has been made on your account since it was repurchased, unfortunately, the account has defaulted again. Even though the account has expired, there is still an outstanding balance which must be paid and so i confirm the default issued in 2009 was done so correctly.....In view of my findings, I am unable to uphold your complaint on this occasion as the information sent to the CRAs was correct."

Hmmmm... I think they have got this a little bit wrong:roll: Think I will have to take this further now with the ICO etc. Trouble is, just had court papers for an old m&s card, so currently busy sorting that.... always something isn't there.

Still, hopefully I'll get there in the end.

Has the info on your credit file now been removed once and for all, Beachy? Hope so!

Magda

Hi Sinking, glad it all worked out in the end. Bet it was a relief to finally see the back of them all:-D

All the best, Magda

Hi, I know this thread goes back a long way, but interested, as I have a charge card problem from the same period. Any updates on what happened?

Magda

Yes, that's more than likely it. Be interesting to see what finally turns up.

Hi All. M&S state in their letter that it will now be 40 days from when they get the signed application back.

I actually said in my SAR request that they have previously sent sensitive information to my address

and were quite happy to do that, but I think with M&S this is something they do, for no good reason.

It would be a great idea to pick up the stuff in branch,

but with M&S don't think i'd be able to do that unless it is all sent to their financial section where people take out store cards etc?

That would certainly speed things up a bit.

Will add a note as you say, coledog, saying that I will expect the 40 days to commence from my original request.

I always wonder how much in league these companies are (Original creditors) with the DCA's they sell to.

I had a big Cabot case recently and MBNA were really obstructive when it came to the SAR and with providing any general info at all.

I know that Cabot were constantly in contact with MBNA and on first name terms,

so makes you wonder how much information they actually want to give you.

many thanks, Magda

Hi, thanks Brigadier. Had a letter from m&s this morning in response to my SAR. They have sent a form for me to sign, which they say they need, as proof of my signature, before they can supply the SAR. So, that has delayed any response by another week or so.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of how long m&s usually take to respond to a SAR and how far back they can usually provide statements for?

thanks, Magda

Hi Magda just to offer you some surport CD did a great job on my defence and like CD said they never responded to it good luck. will pop in now and again to see who you are doing.regards Gloryhunter

Hi gloryhunter, many thanks for your support and glad you had such a good outcome with HFO.

I really appreciate all the support I have received from everyone so far - makes a big difference.

Magda:-)