Sounds like you had a bad experience. How do solicitors know they'll win or not if they don't look at a case? Luckily our main rep was a qualified solicitor so he knew his stuff. The main reason why external unions are better is because they aren't in management's pocket (yet). A union is only as good as the people in it so if the reps are bad then the whole union is bad.

Good luck Mr and Mrs Surreyguy. Give them hell! I remember I was drug tested at my pre-employment medical (I am a bus driver so it's in the interest of public safety) and I remember the chain of custody thing. It was gone through step by step and ticked off. They even explained that this was to make sure the test was fair, and that the sample must NOT leave my sight until the bag is sealed, and the carbon copy of the sheet was given to me like a receipt, if you like. I really hope the decision goes your way

Are you in a union? I know some are not very good but seriously go for either Unite or the GMB. If they are external they'll help you with legal assistance and any disciplinary action. The GMB came into our workplace and sent in a solicitor to several attendance disciplinaries and practically kicked management round the office.

Lol I don't blame you. I came along it earlier today... I know Fishersgate station is in a section of line known as "Bomb Alley" due to the missiles thrown at trains near there.

Basically if you have any more coins, as ISTR Permit to travel machines do not take notes. If you put all your coinage in you've paid as much as possible. Sounds like you've seen it many times. I only asked as it'll clarify things on here for quite a lot of people. eg if your fare is £2.60 and you have a fiver and 60p, you put the 60p in the machine and then give the fiver to the conductor with the PTT. Happens a lot down here as many stations are those horrible chav infested prefabricated halts that no-one likes going from, and all that's there are Permit to travel machines. If you've ever travelled the West Coastway line you'll know what I mean

I'd like to meet anyone who is happy and cheery first thing. Especially on a Monday. I am a bus driver and I see the same sort of thing all the time. Although to be fair many passengers here are OK there are the odd one or two. And as for the trains, when I use my pass anywhere on Southern the gateline staff see "Go-Ahead" on the ticket and are usually fairly polite to me. I've never had a problem with them.

Incidentally, does the 5p in the permit to travel machine thing mean the gate staff have to accept the difference if the person gets caught, rather than issue a penalty fare?

Heh if I had my way it would still be 1975... Proper trains (ie loco hauled and painted blue) on long haul routes, the old pink pasteboard tickets, semaphore signals, level crossings with proper gates, proper freight trains, black grey and white painted buildings, those orange curtains in train windows (remember them?) Restaurant cars, comfy seats with deep cushions and wood panelling in a compartment, Interesting stuff to see out of the windows... The list goes on. I'll take my nostalgic glasses off now Nowadays the TOCs seem to hate the thought of a non-passenger even looking at a train

Scaff. Have you got a receipt for paying direct to the court? You could use that (get a couple of photocopies) and show it to any bailiffs who turn up. Also you should video their reaction and post a link to the video. I could do with a laugh...

Incidentally, what is the minimum value ptt a ticket inspector will take, as if you stick 5p in there then give the inspector on the barrier at the other end the remaining value will a penalty fare still apply? I ask this because I have seen it done before now, and the argument was that since there was a ptt then all the guard could do was issue a ticket not a penalty fare. Could be a good get-out clause there.

Cut off the clamp and throw it in the river

By doing that you're showing a willingness to pay. No court will send you to prison for trying to pay up, and like I say to people, find out if you can pay via their website, as that way you can get a printable receipt which you probably can't get over the phone.

If I get behind with council tax i just pay via their website. It gets accepted electronically so they get no choice. Also it means you can print off e-receipts so if they then take you to court you can just turn up with the receipts saying here's the proof.

I think there ought to be a lot of sales of door chains after reading this forum...

If they refuse just use their automated payment system. They can do sweet FA about it and they'd have to call off the bailiff.