Hi, In short, I received a claim form regarding a catalogue debt going back some time but less than 6 years. I sent a Part 31 CPR request as copied from this forum and I have just received the following response. Any help would be greatly appreciated as they seem to be able to ignore my request. Many thanks. Dear Mr 1970 Thank you for your email requesting disclosure under Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules. We confirm this matter will most properly be allocated to the Small Claims Track as this is a simple contractual matter and Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules will therefore not apply. In any event the Notices of Default and Assignment left the control of the Claimant when they were dispatched to you. It is the original creditor’s policy to issue agreements at the start of the contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement and, in this regard, we ask you to refer to your own records. We confirm our client is not agreeable to an extension for filing the defence. As you will be aware a Claim was issued in this matter on 22 July 2015 and we are in receipt of your acknowledgement of service. Please respond to the Claim using the Response Pack provided by the Court. You should comply with the deadlines outlined by the Court in order to avoid a default Judgment being entered against you. We recommend you seek independent legal advice. Yours sincerely Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

ok great - thanks for that. So, I'm relying on Section 56 - Antecedent Negotiations. I've found an OFT document OFT303 which actually speaks about Section 75 but comments on Section 56 as follows: Frequently, the supplier is the only person a customer has any contact with during negotiations. He provides information about the credit terms as well as about the goods, land, or services being financed by the credit - as when a furniture salesman explains to a prospective buyer the hire purchase terms on a piece of furniture. In this case (if it is a regulated agreement), under section 56 of the Act the supplier is taken to act on the credit grantor’s behalf - as his agent - as well as his own. In effect, this makes the credit grantor responsible for the negotiations as if he had conducted them himself. So on that basis, the lender is responsible for the negotiations as if they had actually conducted them. In my case this would be the incomplete contract, incorrect purchase price and the secret commission. Can I argue on that basis? Cheers.

I see - so as the broker sold the goods to the lender who subsequently HP'd them to me, that eliminates section 75 correct? Also, section 90 seems to be about protected goods being repossessed. That's not relevant here - yes it's protected but I still have the goods.

Hi, no repo. I still have the car under lock and key and wish to send it back.

that has been really helpful reading. Thanks. I'm just deciding now whether I should focus on section 56 or section 75. Basic summary of facts: I signed an 11 page HP agreement. 2 years later I realised that sections 1 to 8 of the terms were missing from the 11 pages. This has now been admitted as an error by the broker. The purchase price of the vehicle on the agreement is also wrong by £1500 too much. Again an admin error - nothing to do with part ex or refinancing etc just a simple numbers error. Broker put in writing that they do not get paid any commission. Subject Access Request revealed that a commission was paid. My argument is that the agreement is void. For a number of reasons I need to focus my complaint on the lender. So, I'm guessing I can use section 56 to make the lender jointly liable for the errors made by the broker. Correct? Can I also use section 75 on the basis of misrepresentation (wrong price of goods and secret commission) and also loss (paying too much as the wrong price was put on the agreement) Cheers.

thanks - very helpful.

Could I rely on CCA 1974 Section 75 - equal liability or does this only relate to faulty goods? (my issue is incorrect purchase price of vehicle, terms omitted from the agreement and secret commission).

Many thanks. It's a HP agreement for a car and the lender is British Credit Trust. FOS are handling it at the moment but it's a very messy affair. I made a comment in my complaint that BTC are liable for the actions of their broker but the FOS want me to support my statement. I had a reference to such a position but can no longer find it.

Hi, thanks for the quick response. The agreement is signed by the lender.

Hi All, I've been looking around all morning to find some case law or regulation information to support an argument I'm having. My questions is: If there is a problem with how a HP agreement was originally put together by a broker, should the lender also bear responsibility? I'm arguing with a lender about some errors with a loan agreement but they are pushing me back by saying it's not their problem and that I should take it up with the broker. I'm pretty sure that a lender is responsible for how their brokers put deals together. Or am I wrong? Cheers.

I've just found the offer letter from Kensignton which says "Your broker will be paid a fee. Please contact us if you would like more information" As I understand it, the amount must be revealed.

Hi, I took out a mortgage with Kensington in 2004 (I have since re-mortgaged with another lender). I was going through some paperwork and found a pile of SAR documents from Kensington which I obtained when reclaiming arrears fees. I've just noticed on one of the documents that Kensington paid £1350 to the broker who arranged the mortgage which I did know about. Can I claim this back as an undisclosed commission?

Update on this one. I've had a final response to my complaint to the lender and as you can imagine they're having none of it. With the incorrect purchase price on the contract and the incomplete terms and conditions they have simply referred me back to the broker as they say it's nothing to do with them. In regard to their alleged termination 2 years ago, they are standing their ground despite evidence to the contrary. So my next option is to either consider FOS or small claims. Key facts: Broker and lender should both be responsible for the setting up of the credit agreement. The agreement is void as sections 1 to 5 of the 8 terms have been omitted from the agreement. The purchase price of the vehicle is wrong by £1295 too much. No default notice or termination has ever been sent so if the agreement does stand I still have the option to VT. I think I have a pretty good case - surely it cannot be decided that this agreement is flawless with so many critical errors that go to the heart of the agreement?? The car remains on my drive

2 in a row but caught up by the 3rd month.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Any further comments on this one?

Well, I contacted the lender in the first instance (during the initial 14 days) and they said it was a problem I had to resolve with the broker. I also wrote to them in 2010 with a long winded update on where I had got so far with the broker (ie nowhere) but they never replied. You're right though, I've just received a paperwork pack from FOS with a case reference so that I can file this with them. In the meantime, I written another letter to the finance company asking for their final response. So at present, the car is sat on my drive - not being used but I have to maintain the tax, insurance and MOT as it's registered in my name. I guess I came here to get views on where I actually stand or will I end up paying another £4000 despite all of the errors and mistakes. 1970

So, the broker received £5495 from the finance company, paid the garage £4200 and had the car delivered to me and then pocketed £1295.00.

First point, the paperwork is erroneous then as it says: "You do not have the right to cancel this agreement either under the consumer credit act 1974 or the timeshare act 1992. The whole thing is a shambles and I've been lied to constantly. Second point, I have been dealing with this now for 4 years and have certainly addressed it. In total there are around 30 emails that have gone to the broker and I have escalated it through their complaints procedure and had one of the directors dealing with it. Every time they have communicated with me they have lied (changing their story as to why they consider the figures to be correct) and I have proved them wrong each time by catching them out and showing them emails from other members of staff that contradicts their attempts to cover this over. The have constantly thrown the complaint back to me unless I provide proof. Which I have including emails, a print screen of the garage website showing the price of the vehicle as being available to purchase for £4200 cash and I also managed to obtain an invoice from the garage showing that it was indeed sold for £4200. (none of this has anything to do with deposits or trade ins by the way). In regard to making payments - of course I have as they have the upper hand at all times even to the point now that they have hit my credit file with a default because I am now playing hard ball with them. I've stopped paying now as I consider the agreement to be void and I've asked them to collect the car. 1970.

Hi GG, Nope, no talk of a deposit at all. Never discussed during the sales process, nothing via email and nothing anywhere on the paperwork. The broker does not require a deposit. They provide you with credit and then you find a car at any garage of your choice - they simply pay the garage direct once the deal is done. No trade in either. This is a simple mistake on the paperwork and the reason why it happened is that originally the car was for sale at £5495. However, about two days after finding the car the garage had a sale and reduced the price of the vehicle so it was perfect timing to make the purchase. The broker simply forgot to change the paperwork to reflect the offer and I didn't notice at the time. Both parties made a mistake - the broker for not updating his paperwork and me for not realising it had the original price. I have a print screen of the garage website showing the sale price of the car and I also have a copy on the invoice showing the sale. 1970.

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

None

Hi SeanG79, The agreement was in my personal name and the broker was CarLoan4U. It was emailed to me by CarLoan4U to my hotmail account while I was at work. I printed it off, signed it at work in my lunch break and posted it recorded delivery. As it was sent by email, this is how I am able to prove that pages were missing as the broker created a single PDF containing a cover letter, a key facts document, the terms (2 pages of 5) the gap insurance terms and the PPI terms - 17 pages in all. I could make excuses but I simply did not notice the incorrect loan figure until about a week after signing (after taking delivery of the car and then deciding to file the paperwork away) and it has only just come to my attention (4 years later) that a substantial part of the terms is missing. So, yes a mistake on my part! In regard to pre-contract information, all I have is the 17 page PDF and I'm not sure if any of it acts as pre contract info. 1970.

Hi All, Getting a bit stressed on this one, seems like they always have the upper hand. I've posted bits about this in two other sections but I guess I need to put all the problems into one post and decide the best way forward. History: I have a car on HP. Broker put the deal together for the finance company in 2008. Within 14 days of signing the paperwork I noticed that the purchase price of the car was incorrect by £1300. It should have said £4200 but instead the agreement was set up for £5495. I raised the issue with the finance company but they said it's the brokers problem to solve. I've gone back and forth with the broker for the last 4 years with no success what so ever. I have an invoice for the car to prove the price should have been £4200. I recently attempted to send the car back (as you can with a HP agreement) but was told I would still have to pay the full amount of loan (another £4000 left to pay) as they had already terminated the agreement 2 years ago. I knew nothing about this. Never received a termination notice and I do not have a default on my credit file relating to any termination in the past. Plus I still have the car and receive letters from time to time reminding me of my right to terminate??? When I found out about the termination I went back to check the terms in the paperwork and discovered that when the broker emailed the agreement to me, they forgot to add 3 pages of the terms and conditions. So, I have a signed HP agreement which states the wrong purchase price by £1295 too much, 3 pages are missing from the terms and finally I have lost the option to give up the vehicle and walk away as the finance company claim they terminated 2 years ago even though I never received the termination notice or default notice nor did they report a default to the CRA's I am now expected to pay them another £4000 cash despite already handing over £7000 for a £4200 car. I have written to them recently to complain and they have subsequently wacked a default on my file as of the 9th September in retaliation. HELP!!!! Cheers, 1970.

When you say default, does this mean a simple missed payment or two or an official default that occurs (and gets reported to CRA's) as a result of them sending a notice which the debtor fails to remedy?