mariefab/Emmzzi It is both of those things - they say they were acting under "established policies", which do not exist. And these policies were not appllied consistenty or fairly - considering the size of the organization they would have had to have been written down and their impact assessed. None of that happened here. No union agreement either. Cheers

Emmzzi Employers operated and imposed policies and procedures on individuals - said policies caused persons from being able to gain promotion and helped sanctions to be imposed on various individuals. It has now come to light te policies/procedures used do not exist. Cheers

Hiya All I have a very Basic Question concerning Policies/Procedures. If a Employer has acted under various policies and procedures [in a way that targetted/excluded individuals/groups] which turn out not to exist - how would that affect a potential employment tribunal case? How would you explain the non-existance to a Judge? I am sure there will be some in interesting replies so fire away people. Cheers

As I pointed out HR useless - unsure myself plus with pay freeze no details - but its the reasons why I was marked down to the lowest marking which is why it is at the ET. This was just the final straw so to speak.

Hiya Every year all staff get apprased on their performance over the previous year [an annual report basically]. Dependent on the marking which springs from that a person is elligible/or not for receiving a performance bonus.

Hiya Becky2585 as I am so thick on this subject i will lay it out in as specific simple terms as I can: yearly pay appraisal, stopped [not mnded to detail on this open forum why] classed as illegal deduction of wages for 2010/2011 period. £250x1 yearly pay appraisal, stopped - classed as illegal deduction of wages for 2011/2012 period. i.e. a repeat of previous year £250x1 Total = £500 Then I would add in the rest of the Gross Pay normal amounts? not including bonus as do not know what it would have been due to pay freeze in effect at this organization. also supplied pay information supplied by HR inaccurate/chaotic. Yes It is being dealt with under Constructive Dismissal - as I understand it as a "Anticipatory breach" of trust and confidence [all I can say is 'final straw' BUCK*&^% case from 2010 - as judgement not due till next week]. Cheers

Hello all My issues were addressed at et last week and judge instructed I supply a schedule of loss. Now as it was 2 years deduction of wages [set at phr] I have no idea how to do that particular calculation. Could someone more knowledgable about that posssibly post up a small example a dunce like me can use? i.e. is just take two years past pay and lump together? or something else? I have not a clue... Much appreciated. All I will say is there have been some very odd things going on in the back ground around this case. One unusual thing is the direction to use a law changing case from 2010 which i had never heard/seen of when I was researching Constructive cases. Decision day soon. At least I will learn one way or the other if my interpretation of what has happened to me in the main is considered true or not. Cheers

Hiya You might want to have a look at the following cases: Roberts v Barley http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/2012/0271_11_2004.html Doyle v North West London Hospitals NHS Trust http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/2012/0013_12_1403.html These are where costs orders were thrown out. If you PM me privately I'll point out the website that highlighted these for the legal position. Good Luck

Good Evening All I have a question [well several actually] about costs orders. Who is responsible for admnistrating them. i.e. The Employment Tribunal or the Respondent? Who is supposed to comunicate to the plaintif the timing and how it is to be handled. The Employment Tribunal or the Respondent? Who is the payment to go to. The Employment Tribunal or the Respondent? What is considered the usual timeframe for the payment of a costs order? A Week/Two Weeks/A Month? [Full ET not due till end of November], leading to the question of who can set the payment timeframe. The Employment Tribunal or the Respondent? Cheers

Emmzzi Thanks. And I fully understand where you are coming from. The ex-head person, she said okay was able to attend for four weeks, then a decision comes in against one she was protecing and suddenly she is no longer available. Hmmmm. Regarding the Union, had no choice, could not afford the subscription while I am on the dole. And I had nothing to lose, they were going to come again with more made up stuff - so why stay and get sacked, maybe by something which they might be able to use to sway a ET with or go at a time of my choosing. I chose the later. Cheers everyone.

Emmzzi No, as no longer working, could not afford to stay in union and going by past experience [have been consulted on staffing matters for others] union has been no help to anyone - in fact has been helping employer in various [local reps are okay] areas to keep things quite, plus impossible to get legal representation/advice [someone I know is still waiting for advice a year and a half later!!! Both Union rep and a solicitor we know say have very strong case]. Did approach a local solicitor who was said to deal with such matters, not interested due to the apparent award that might be payable, did not believe could get constructive. Tried other avenue via Contact Law, same thing happened again so being forced to do this off my own back. That's when I found out there are only handful of solicitor willing to take on these cases across whole of UK, and will only go for one where they are sure you will win. I was sure, as I knew the benchamarking stuff was critical and said so, they weren't. I was homeless [resigning + flat mate ran out of money so we had to go our seperate ways] for a period now in accomodation so unable to claim on household insurance for a solicitor. One amusing thing is the head person who's been protecting these people, said was available for full ET, [delay on the forwarding of the decision on abuse was also amusing, missed two dates they set themselves. Obviously they knew it was going to have a big impact on case], is suddenly not available for the 6 dayer. I wonder why.

Hiya Emmzzi and thanks. I think you are right on the HSE part. Evidence wise I am struggling to fufil the directins so suspect it is going to be dropped. A bummer afer the way I've been treated but there you are. With regards to the markings - it comes down as I understand it did the employer act in a reasonable manner with the polocies/procedures. Clearly in my case it is documeted that polocies and procedure were twisted and hearsay used to justify actions. Where I [and I suspect the Judge at the CMD knew this, which is why she had it listed for a full hearing] have issues is the fact that the detriments that were used against me are have been excluded from any grievance procedure since 2009. In addition the same excluded detriment used against me is itself isn't even listed anywhere on the paper work the issued against me, nor is it in the grievance procedure itself, it was excluded in 2009 after all - they were going for Gross Misconduct before the presiding chairs substanially watered down the recomended/listed detriments. I hope the above makes things a bit more clear why the decision on the abuse of power is so important. i.e., I should never have got the determinents in the first place, hearsay was used, plus managers actually twisted/broke policies and procedures to impose the grievances against me. I have docuented proof of that. Two of the three individuals I talk about above were involved in that activty.

>Hi > >So I think to summarise, you are claiming CD because the appraisal system was unfair to you reflected in > >a) you receiving higher ratings when it was anonymised and based on data alone correct >b) you being the only person of a specific ethnicity only myself and someone else's report were outstanding at the time this occured. I and that person are Non-white. All other persons reports [some not even going through process, but said to have been] done in March this year - my report dragged out to June. >c) other ethnicity related slurs Other than the phrases used back at the beginning as I detail above no. >This also placed stress on you to the point where you were unwell. Collapse occured early last year, saw doctor after hospital visit and other visits and explained stress being put under at work. >Is that a fair summary of events? > >In addition, you advised your employer you had a disability and - what? Did you suggest adjustments you needed? Did they refer you to Occ Health? Had ATOS referral just before I left, due to another health issue in addition to one that put me in hospital ATOS said both would be classed as disability as conditions lasts longer than a year. employer was informed of other disablity when I started job [basically a broken neck limiting me on certain things I could do]. line manager had to sort out ATOS process and implement it, advising HR on what to do. Zero contact or anythiing from HR at all stages.

Hiya all thanks for responding. I lay out a breif decription of the situation below: Issue was Benchmarking of staff - ie a star chamber of managers brought together to evaluate a individuals annual report done by the line manager and countersigning officer [individuals direct managers]. Policy/Procedures used consisted of single sheet. Policy/Procedures not linked to general reporting process or anything else for that matter. When made aware of change from being annouynous, I contacted Union to verify had been run by them - it had not. Email explanation was gibberish. In Fact during walk around breif to staff after concerns registered, persons responsible for change stated did not need to contact union due to significant change they had implemented. Policy used here was out of date as changed significantly this year. no clear appeals process - nothing ever given to staff affected. Data refering to staff was last year annoumous - changed this year so managers know who it is thereby in my case allowing easy vicimisation, and by the same token easy rewarding of favourites. Last year manager who at that time was countersigning officer who I had greviance against, unilatreraly downgraded report after last years benchmarking refused to downgrade it [after I received a deteriment not listed during disiplinary procedure so should have been dismissed]. Same thing happened again this year but this time via the benchmarking process thanks to the change. Of course after what happened last year I knew exactly what was going to happen this year after he and other senior managers ordered that change to the policy/procedures. Individuals were unable when challenged to justify or explan actions in any form. New CEO found them guilty of Abuse of Power via internal grievance investigation - I had by that time left that employment - but the ongong annual report process was suspended by CEO for this investigation. Collapsed due to work related stress. Last year I found out I suffered from a disability. no support ever given/offered by HR. Did put in complaint abut stress being put under qouting relevant HSE regulations - complaint dismissed out of hand by the old CEO who 'consulted' with HR Head the person who the complaint was against.

Evening All I have a question for the more knowlegable people: I have resigned and claimed constructive dissmissal - the reason has been onfirmed as the three individuals - including the racist one have been found guilty of the exact reason why I resigned so its case proved there methinks. I also claim racism due to the use of "not your place", and "not in our culture", and no one for the past 4 years [before, during and after the Greivance, and its Appeal], has been able to explain its use. Now someone who is acting as a go between to their Solcitors [not even sure if person asking this is legally qualified...] are demanding that I give a "comparator" for my treatment, which has got me puzzled and scratching my head. As I do not know of anybody else who I can compare myself to - I didnt work in Hr or talk to anybody else there how can I supply what is being demanded? I also due to health issues put in a disablity claim, same thing there. Reason why I'm asking is that I have a PHR in a couple of days - the main 6 day hearing is due in a couple of months or so. Can anybody give me a bit of insight here considerng the above? Oh, forgot to mention I am doing this on my own, as apparently as solicitors thought the constructive was unprovable, they thought I would get less than the mminum amount so none were interested in taking this up. Kind Regards

Hiya All Thanks for response from you all and the the advice - I will pass on. Regards

Hiya Something else did happen - I cannot detail it here. But does touch on behaviour of managers, and several Civil Acts. Apologies.

Another way of looking at it is : - Employee 1 informs HR that they has been offered 2 jobs elesehere, original job withdrawn, so is considering 2nd job - Hr sends notification to Employee 1 that post will be filled at certain date - date is before Employee can confirm 2nd Job is suitable or can work off notice - at no point did Employee 1 confirm date of leaving, only that was considering 2nd Job

My apologies all - never know who is lurking The head of HR had a habit of acessing people PCs remotely without telling them and this forum was accessed on a few occassions. SweetLorraine: - Employee 1 is keen to take up a new role with (New) company. - Ergo, the company is able to slot in Employee 2, (a Temp) into Employee 1's old role. - Employee 1 is miffed because the employer did this before Employee 1 moved into new role. (Did not confirm was leaving at any time until accepted 2nd Job offer, this confirmation of leaving occured after receiving notification job was being filled by Temp) Q: Does Employee 1 grounds for constructive dismissal? (Correct) Have I got the plot-line right? See added stuff in brackets above. And now Employee 1 wants to go to an ET for 'closure'? Due to Treatment by HR/CEO.

To be clear Colleague has started the new job. But is extremly upset at treatment and wishes to take ET route for closures sake. CEO dissimissed registered complaint, no investgation beyond letter to say there was no case to answer.

Emmzzi - colleague goes for a new job - with current employer or a new one? [New Employer] - colleague is offered job [Correct] - colleague tells HR they have been offered a new job and are thinking of taking it [Correct] - colleague does not hand in notice [Correct] - HR tell colleague they have someone ready to take colleague's job [Correct] ...and then what?

Hiya Becky2585 Nope.

Good Eveniing As the title states I have a ex-colleague who was considering taking up a new post - they had meetings with HR where they informed HR that another post had been offered and was considering it. They kept HR informed only to be told before agreeing to take up the 2nd offered post that the current job of my colleague was going to be flled by someone else a couple of weeks time before they themself could work off their notice. I take it this is constructive dissimisal? If so what particular part of the employment law covers it [i believe Breech of Contract, but I could be wrong]? The unusual behaviour of HR at my old work place continues to amaze. Kind Regards

Hello all Just a quick one. If someone is offered Secondment, but has not accepted or signed agreeing to it - how is it viewed in employment law if said person is then told that on a specific date they will no longer be employed by their original employer? No start date for the Secondment has been agreed with the new employer. Thanks for any replies.

Hiya Suggest your wife calls Doc ASAP and run HRs little missive past him. If her Doc is willing afterwards to give her a sick note now all to the good. Otherwise HR ask where in the companies sick polices for self certificated does it state the need to provide evidence? When was this change implemented? how was it communicated to staff? Oh and do this in email form, and request a copy back for your own records. If they send a PDF say you want the original document not a copy Its a simple mater for someone to check and see if its veracity is true. i.e. not created on the day... Be aware that they will definetly get difficult after this...