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the_thin_man

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  1. Thanks to all of you for your responses. I thought the best course of action would be to email the contact Locutus provided and see if he could resolve the situation. I'll update here with the outcome of that. In the meantime there are a few things that I could do with clarifying, and was hoping I could get further advice from the forum. Firstly, I can’t work out whether it is mobiles.co.uk's fault or Orange's fault that this situation occurred. The replies above all seem to be coming from the viewpoint that it is mobiles.co.uk acting dishonestly, but they seem to have done everything I have asked of them, i.e. provided me with all the details I needed to return, replied to my emails promptly and with the info I requested, cancelled the contract with Orange, etc. It seems on face value that Orange have first of all failed to cancel my direct debit, and then only provided a refund under their 14 day cooling off period rather than the full refund under the DSRs. However, I can see circumstances where mobiles.co.uk could have been at fault - for instance they didn't notify Orange of my intention to cancel until the day after the 7 day return period expired (although does this matter if I have cancelled within the period with mobiles.co.uk?), or they may not have told Orange I was cancelling under DSR. I can also see that if they work on a commission basis then this could be deliberate to make sure they get their agents fee, etc. Although, to reply to buzby's post, I do not think mobiles.co.uk are lying about advising Orange of my intention to cancel as they told me this happened on the 15th, and the 2nd Orange bill processed the refund from the 15th. Also, Orange would not have known about my intention to cancel were it not for mobiles.co.uk telling them. It would be interesting to get your takes on all of the above? From other threads on CAG, it seems that mobiles.co.uk certainly are not whiter than white (although have they improved since the carphone warehouse takover?), but then there are plenty of threads describing Orange as having the worst customer services of the mobile service providers. Secondly, I have been reading around the DSRs more today and there is a clause that says that for the provision of services, if the performance of the contract has begun with the consumer's consent before the end of the usual cancellation period and the supplier has provided the written confirmation and additional information before commencing performance of the services (including information that the cancellation rights will end as soon as performance of the contract begins), then the consumer will not have the right to cancel. Does this apply in this case? I cannot find any advice on the web as to whether it applies to mobile phone contracts. The date of the contract start with Orange was 3rd July on my bill (despite the phone being delivered on the 5th!) so my contract certainly started before the cancellation period was passed, but also before I received any terms and conditions including the DSR right to cancel. The email confirmation of my order had some blurb on the bottom about the right to cancel in 7 days, but was certainly not a full explanation of the DSR right to cancel. When I did receive this with my phone, it was on the rear of my invoice which I had to return to mobiles.co.uk so no longer have (is this compliant with DSR?). Also, I did not charge the phone, put the SIM card in, or even snap the sim out of the plastic card it is held in, so I certainly did not 'activate' the contract my end, or provide my 'consent' by doing this, if that makes any difference? Finally, I have not recieved any contract details or terms and conditions at any point from Orange, just the invoice from mobiles.co.uk with basic details of the contract I had signed up for. The terms and conditions I received were mobiles.co.uk's. Distance selling regulations certainly get confusing when you are essentially signing up for a product AND a service at the same time! Thanks again for any help.
  2. Ok this is 3 years later, but thought it might be useful to anybody in a similar situation and reading this thread if I updated with the outcome. I called Safe and Secure and advised that the Trade Descriptions helpline think this is a breach of contract under the supply of goods and services act 1982. I asked for the transcripts of all my calls with them, and hey presto, never heard another thing from them! It was nice to find out first hand that if you stand up to companies acting like cowboys, get appropriate advice, take sensible measured steps and stick to your guns, then a positive outcome can be achieved! Thanks to all the contributors on this thread - your advice was invaluable.
  3. Hi, Would appreciate advice anyone can give on this issue. I purchased an HTC desire from Mobiles.co.uk which arrived Monday 5th July. I straight away realised that I had made a mistake in ordering the phone as my housemate has the same handset and contract and has had loads of problems. Therefore I did not open the phone or the simcard and called mobiles.co.uk on Saturday 10th July, well within the 7 day returns period which ran until Wednesday 14th, stating my intention to return the phone under the distance selling regulations. They advised that I should return the phone within 48 working hours (by Tuesday 13th) and I duly posted it by Special Delivery on Monday afternoon. I emailed mobiles.co.uk asking them to confirm that they had received my return and that they had informed Orange of my decision to cancel - they emailed back advising that they had and that they had contacted Orange on 15th to advise of my contract cancellation. On 15th July I also received my first bill from Orange, but assumed that this was because it had been sent before my cancellation was received by them, so I did not act on it. On 23rd of July, imagine my surprise when £36.51 left my account! I contacted Orange and the advisor seemed to know little about what he was trying to tell me and eventually passed on a message from his supervisor that I would receive a credit note for the refund in 2nd months bill, which I should ring up and claim on receipt. Imagine my surprise again when my 2nd bill arrived with a refund for only £24.49! I contacted Orange again, and the advisor this time told me that I would only receive a refund for the period after they had received notification of my cancellation. I am under the firm impression that, if cancelling under the distance selling act, a full refund should be provided? Am I right in this belief? I feel it is poor that Orange charged me in the first place to be honest, as they had notice of my cancellation a full 7 working days before the dd was due to be taken. Apologies for the length of what I have written above, but I wanted to provide the full picture! Thanks again for any advice.
  4. Spoke to trade descriptions today, very helpful and they think it is a breach of contract under supply of goods and services act 1982. They have asked that I let the company know of my intentions and give them another chance to drop the invoice, then if they still insist on the payment get the transcriptions of calls from the company and then we can go from there. Hopefully this wont take too long to sort!
  5. Shywazz , this is my point exactly. I DID request an urgent repair and the phone operator said nothing to inform me that they would not be carrying out a repair. I should think it was fairly obvious that I would have told them where to stick it if they'd told me they were charging me £150 to board a window, something I had the skills, tools and ability to do myself. Therefore the operator clearly let me believe that they were sending a glazier out to do the repair, when all they were going to do was board the window, and he used the phrase "making it safe" as he, or his company, thinks that this covers them legally. In my opinion this is clearly a miss-selling offence under the trade descriptions act.
  6. Gyzmo, maybe I should have started this thread before I had it repaired, then you could have given me the number of your glazier!
  7. Hi Adam I believe that Without Prejudice letters CAN be used as evidence in court in certain cases. While the settlement is being discussed these letters are not admissible (designed to allow parties to bargain without fear of these negotiations being used against them), but once both parties agree a settlement they become admissible. For instance, if you accept their settlement in writing and they do not keep their side of the bargain, i.e. send you the money, it becomes admissible. Do not sign the consent order - if and when you agree to settlement by writing advise that you will contact the court and cancel all action once they have settled. Don't cancel action until the money is cleared in your account! If you did sign the consent and return it to them it would, as you say, give them the leverage and they could conceivably use it against you. The 4 conditions they impose seem reasonable enough, as you say. Good luck with the final push and let us know how it goes. Regards Tom My advice here is based on similar situations and advice on this site - I am in no way legal trained so this advice is without prejudice and with no liability.
  8. Recently I used Safe & Secure Glazing as I needed the window of a neighboring property urgently repaired due to an accident at a party. The third party agent arrived (Clearview Glaziers & Locks) but after a couple of minutes I realised that he wasn't repairing the window but boarding it, which I would have done myself if I had realised this was what he was going to do. Obviously I queried this and he said that it was after 6.30pm and on a sunday so he had not brought any glass with him, and that this was company policy. It was a single glazed 2ft x 1ft wooden framed window - basically a piece of glass you expect any self respecting glazier will carry at all times! He assured me he would have a word with his boss and come back first thing on monday to replace the glass. When I called them on monday it became clear that they were going to charge me another £150 for the window repair, so I told them not to bother. I used a local glazier in the end who charged me £65 for the full job. I am refusing to pay Safe & Secure as they plainly did not make it clear that they were coming to board rather than glaze the window. I had clearly requested a repair. I raised this point with them and they listened to the call. Apparently their opperative had said the words "coming to make it safe" during our conversation, which they believe makes it clear that they were not going to repair the window. In his own words, they think it "covers them" I believe this is a deliberately ambigous phrase; "make it safe" could quite as easily mean replace the glass as board the window. At no point in our conversation did he say that they wouldnt be replacing the glass, and at no point did he say they would be boarding the window. Surely if the opperative hadn't been trying to mislead me he would have made these points clear? Also, while I was querying this point when I rang to complain, I requested that a supervisor ring me back. I did not hear back from the company regarding this. They only called back 2 weeks later, through their collections department, when the credit card payment they were expecting didn't go through! Suprise suprise! I am pretty annoyed about this whole situation, but I believe I am well within my legal rights not to pay them, and I believe any judge would rule in my favour over this. Could anybody with a bit more legal knowledge than myself give me any advice? Sorry about the length of this post by the way, I just wanted to get all the information in! Cheers in advance for any help.
  9. [/url]It was that thread that confused me hedgey! Posts 10 and 11 by bumpyone and NATTIE leave me confused as to whether you can reclaim unpaid item charges on student accounts - NATTIES answer does not really answer this question. How do you read it?
  10. Was wondering if anybody could clear up my confusion on a couple of issues. Firstly, with the Lloyds victory i assume we should all be trying to get hold of our t&c's from when we opened the account. How do I go about this? Write to my bank and ask? Secondly, I hold an interest free overdraft student account, and it seems some people are suggesting that you cannot claim back charges on a student account. Is this true? What about a student credit card? Any help appreciated.
  11. Hi Recently got my credit report from annualcreditreport.co.uk and it shows a linked address that NatWest added to my credit report at the very beginning of 2006. However, I have never lived, had anything posted to or even set foot in this address! It is the address of a building adjacent to my university halls (I had them forward post to me at my uni address 2 years ago and it seems this is when it was added, although, as I said the linked address is not the one I had them forward post to). I am worried about it being on my credit report as the building is a student house and, knowing what students are like with money, the building being linked to my credit report probably has a negative impact rather than a positive one. How do I go about getting this address removed? Is it Natwest's responsibility or is it mine to contact the relevant credit agencies and get them to remove the address? I rang the NatWest credit card line earlier (it was added concerning a credit card account) and they sounded slightly confused and just gave me the number for experian and told me to talk to them. Thought I'd get some advice here before going down that route! Any advice appreciated Cheers
  12. M55, take them for every penny! Watching this one with interest, good luck.
  13. I'll keep everybody posted - I'm off to see my senior tutor tomorrow regarding another issue. She also deals with any financial queries for students in my hall of residence - do you think I should mention it to her or make it official by putting it in writing to the central finance department (who have overall control of these things)? Obviously I'd like to avoid taking my uni to court if poss, but i'm def willing to do it! As always, any advice welcomed
  14. I graduate in June so will prob look into reclaiming it then - although uni policy means they shouldn't be able to penalise me in my degree just because I had made life difficult for them/taken them to court, in reality I realise I could be shooting myself in the foot! Thanks for your help MrShed
  15. Yes I think it is a licence, although I'd have to check to be sure? What difference does this make?
  16. Hello all Was hoping somebody out there could give me some advice on this. I'm a student at Durham Uni living in university owned accomodation. Before christmas I had problems paying my accomodation and catering charge of roughly £1300 for the term. I eventually payed 5 weeks late, although the uni has decided to charge me £50 for this late payment. My feelings are that this is probably a similar situation to bank charges - i.e. can only charge me what it costs to chase the payment/lost interest/etc - which is not going to amount to £50. If it turns out that this is the case then they also owe me £170 in fines I paid for similar problems 2 years ago. What are other peoples views on this, and what is the legal view? Thanks
  17. Thanks very much for your help rooster, Ill get the letter in the post tomorrow morning!
  18. About to start action against natwest for both Student Account (£409) and Credit Card (£74) charges. Total £483. I have all my statements so no need to send a SAR letter - thank goodness, it seems this is the most painful stage for most! I have a couple of quick questions before I commence. Can a send one preliminary approach letter for both (addressed to Natwest head office) or is it best to send one letter for each account? Also, do all parts of the standard preliminary approach letter apply to credit cards as well as bank accounts? Thanks for any help on this!
  19. Hello all, my first post! About to start action against nationwide for both Flexaccount (£404.50) and Credit Card (£242) charges. Total £646.50. I have all my statements so no need to send a SAR letter - thank goodness, it seems this is the most painful stage for most! I have a couple of quick questions before I commence. Can a send one preliminary approach letter for both (addressed to Nationwide head office) or is it best to send one letter for each account? Also, do all parts of the standard preliminary approach letter apply to credit cards as well as bank accounts? Thanks for any help on this!
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