Nottslad, thank you for your reply. I don't know why I didn't receive an email telling my you had responded so please excuse my delay in replying. I didn't think of sending a SAR request and I should have. I will do that today and also address what you have said regarding the warrant, not having the actual details of what they should have had, now I can chase them as part of the SAR to produce this too. Loopinlouie, thanks for keeping an eye on me and reminding me I should be chasing them. I really do get distressed when I think about UW, they are monsters and shouldn't be allowed to do what they have not just to me but to lots of other people. I dread how much I will have to pay again each month if we have a winter like we had last year, my meter card payments were close to £500 some months for gas and electricity and the debt of over £5,000 is still sitting there. MadKit

My partner made a DSAR request, received tons of documentation just within the 40 day time. As a fairly seasoned campaigner here is what I noticed: 1. Although PPI is referred to (and hugely charged for) there is no separate PPI documentation or details 2. The agreement date has been altered after he signed the agreement (clearly not by him - can I quote Pigot's Case (1614) 11 CoRep 26B ?) 3. They took off a loan payment while the account was in dispute (not by direct debit as this had been stopped but by helping themselves to the money) 4. They sent CDs allegedly containing phone conversations, both discs were encrypted but the decryption doesn't work giving different error messages on both discs Where to start? MadKit

Loopinlouie, thanks for the reply - once again, you made me laugh. Best wishes to you too and yes unfortunately the UW reps are still lurking but I firmly believe in what goes around, comes around and I can't wait! MK X

Loopinlouie, no updates unfortunately, still paying over £300 per month on the meter even though the heating has been off for two months! Thank you for asking. Shining Light, would dearly have loved to "let it go to court" as you put it but as they broke into my house, installed the meter and there is now no documentation or bills to fight the debt, this is not an option.

I am going to fax this and send it this morning so if there are any comments or changes, could I have them quick please? MadKit

Is this acceptable? As per my conversation with the Court helpline and their advice, I am sending you this letter to confirm that the above reference refers to a debt that is a Final Charging Order, details below and this should not be a warrant for another CCJ or follow up on this debt as no payment arrangements were made or enforced as part of the Final Charging Order so the warrant should not have been issued and I respectfully ask that you inform the Claimant. Help! I need to fax this today. MadKit

Welcome Finance need no introduction or description from me that hasn't been said eloquently and with feeling more than once. Here are the details: Original loan amount - £25,000 (now owing £32,000), paid off over £12,000 PPI close to £6,000 (lump sum amount) Interest rate 34% (very difficult to find on the copy along with most of the other details) More info: - the "agreement" is illegible, some areas of the page are not legible at all - they have very aggressively pursued this debt and took well over a year to supply info but now I have it all - the PPI form is new to me, never saw it before and didn't sign as can be clearly seen by an attempt to cut and paste a signature from what I assume is one of my letters (you can see the outline of where this has been stuck on and it is skew) What I wanted to know is this: If I go after them for refund of PPI and charges, I assume they will pay themselves this as there are arrears. Am I acknowledging that there is a valid CCA if I go after the PPI and the charges that have been heaped on? I desperately need to re-mortage my house prior to selling it, will Welcome be able to take the full amount they say is owing (all of the arrears are interest and massive amounts of charges) even though the PPI and charges are massively inflating this? MadKit

From what I have been reading, Amex cannot go after a debt that is a Final Charging Order. Can you confirm this please? I need to send a letter to the court today and tell them this and I need to know what wording to use. Thanks! MadKit

It would take me a day or more to document my fight and loss against Amex and the Final Charging Order result. However, just as I thought things could not get any worse, I received a very threatening card through the door yesterday. It appears the local court bailiff popped around to remove my goods for the same amount of the Final Charging Order and in Amex's name. Seems they want the money twice! On phoning the helpdesk (because now you can't phone the local court), they said the onus is on me to tell the court that they should tell Amex that they should not have done this! She also said that it isn't up to the court to check that Amex have done something wrong (even though they have the court case number and all the details of the Final Charging Order) it is my responsibility. So hold on, you have all the information but it's still my fault? How does that work? I want to go after Amex for the stress and pain they have caused me not only in this instance, they owe me the same amount as the Final Charging Order in PPI payments which they refused to pay back. My first action will be to write to the local court and inform them that Amex have no right to go after the money again but I would love to not only get the Final Charging Order removed (by redirecting the PPI refund) and sue them for the complete shambles they've made of my "financial" life but I would also like to just for once get the better of this awful company!! Any advice? MadKit

Just a quick answer to the comments on the estimated billing. I gave meter readings every month, the point that everyone is missing is that my bill was 0 (zero) when I tried to change providers. What happened next is that they retroactively billed the same amounts I had paid at a higher rate saying that the rate they had charged was a "budget" rate and now that I was leaving, I had to pay the difference between what I was being charged and the higher rate for "normal" customers. Usage didn't change but the charge per units used did! And the huge amount I was charged and all that I ended up allegedly owing them was worked out by them and that is what Energywatch should have challenged but didn't.

Firstly, I have been on this forum for quite some time and have considerable knowledge that has been offered here and on other forums. I have been fighting bank charges from the very beginning and won a considerable amount of money back and will continue to fight on the side of the consumer. I have never come onto any forum including this one as you put it My problems with UW have been documented, your connection with UW has been equally documented so let's leave that alone. My problem with UW will not be assisted by them, they are the problem! And I already thanked you for your offer. IswatBS jambazi12, samson10 etc are among those who seem to be as unhappy as I am!

To answer the two posts: Absolutely nothing is sorted out. I am still paying off over £6,000 worth of debt on the meters at an exhorbitant rate. I am topping up almost £400 every month for gas and electricity and before anyone reminds me that it is winter, would you seriously expect to pay this much even in winter? Thank you for your offer but I have no interest in having anything to do with Utility Warehouse ever again and I would advise anyone thinking of joining them to have a look around the web and see the issues others have or are having with them. I wasn't at home when these people broke in and only found out about it when my son phoned me. They did not show any warrants nor was there a court case. Energywatch were hopeless, they said that if they produce a bill then the amount must be owing. They weren't interested that the so called amount that was owing was about triple what other utility companies were charging at that time and backdated even though the "final" bill was zero when I tried to change suppliers. One day I hope to have this bill paid off but quite honestly, I can't imagine how long that will take. P.S. The photo is of a wolf.

Below is a brief summary of my problems with Utility Warehouse and the subsequent meter that was installed. I had requested to move electricity suppliers (January 2007) - the "final" bill was around £242 which I paid for at the end of January 2007. The new supplier said that Utility Warehouse had not approved the move as there was money owing. I contacted them as the bill showed a zero balance. The girl on the phone said she couldn't see that anything was owing. In February I received the bill and it was £1198! I phoned them and they said that I owed them the money as I had been on a budget plan and they had decided to cancel this plan. My average bill per month was around £200 before this bill and I have all the statements so I did not understand how this could be. By April the bill was now almost £4000! 18 April 2007 - Contacted Energywatch, they emailed and said they could do nothing until I had spoken to Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) which I did but they were incredibly rude again even refusing to send out copy statements which they said I was not entitled to. 26 November 2007 - Contacted Energywatch again and told them that UW have now instituted a court case on 10 December and they sent me threatening letters saying they would gain forceable entry to my house and switch off my gas and electricity. 30 November 2007 - Energywatch spoke to Telecom Plus on my behalf and confirmed there would be no action regarding a court appearance on 10th December as there was a hold on the account while the dispute is being investigated. Nothing happened until July 2008 when I again contacted Energywatch. Even though I had paid over £650 in two months as I had continued to try and pay off the bills, the total bill was now a staggering £7500! They obtained a court order and then broke into my house and had card meters installed for both gas and electric. They woke my son up, were incredibly rude and the other two guys sat on my lounge suite waiting for their mate to fit these meters. My son asked where their warrant was and they basically told him to get lost and said they didn't have one. I phoned up and complained and was told they didn't need a warrant but that they were sorry that the guys had sat on my chairs! The charges are horrendously high and the gas meter still shows a balance owing of £3,500 last time I looked just on the gas meter, I'm unsure how to check the electricity meter. I worked out that one month the charges for gas and electricity were more than £500 and the average is just less than this every month. The BBC are doing programmes about "Rip-Off Britain" and have asked me to go on this to highlight the issues with Utility Warehouse / Telecom Plus but I can tell you that they would get back at me and I wouldn't put it past them to break in again or something worse. Any suggestions? MadKit

I decided to update this with all the sorry tale of woe and dodgy issues! I had a hearing in October and had asked for the Final Charging Order to be set aside. This application was completely out of the blue for me as I never received any documentation, notification or details of an interim charging order. I filled out my N244 with help from this site asking for the Final Charging Order to be set aside for the following reason, the debt had been sold to Cap Quest who were now chasing very aggressively. I brought all my documentation with me to prove that I had been out of the country when the first court judgement was made (over the Christmas period!). I also mentioned that I had proof that I had responded to the judgment and asked for a set aside. I had previously sent all the docs to prove that the debt had been sold on and Amex had no right to apply for a final charging order especially as no interim charging order had been set in place. The judge, condescending and downright rude, said that the hearing was for a set aside of the charging order which had already been thrown out (no-one told me), he was not interested in discussing the original judgment and the girl who was there representing Amex tried to say that she had a letter proving the debt had been returned. The only good thing the judge did was say a letter was no proof and that the final charging order could not be applied for that day. When I said I had no knowledge of an interim order and this was supposedly granted when the debt had been sold, he was not interested. He said, very kindly (?), that there would be no costs for the hearing that I would have to pay. I was so angry! They had sold the debt on, they had tried to say that I had consented to a final charging order - liars! - and now I'm left with another hearing where I understand Amex/Brachers will try and get costs. The long and short of this now is that Amex (Brachers) have just supplied me with all the interim charging order docs and that I have a hearing on 14 December for the final charging order. Judge has allocated 5 minutes! I want to fight this! This all came about because I went after them for PPI, this amount plus interest is more than the amout owing. They have played dirty and nasty and I now have to submit whatever documents I can by the end of tomorrow. I just don't know where to start. Any help would be appreciated. MadKit

Steven I will have to get someone to take it in tomorrow for me. Any idea how much the fee would be? Also, sorry to ask again but I assume it should be Brighton in the court name? Or is it the issuing (notice) court i.e. Bedford? Thanks again for messages, I really appreciate the support and help here! MadKit

Thanks for your message, it is a nightmare especially when it's a Charging Order against my house which they should not have been allowed to do as far as I know as credit card debt is hardly a "secured" loan! MadKit

Steven How is this then? 1. The claimant filed the claim in the case between claimant and defendant (case number xxxx) and the case was heard on 15 June 2009 before Deputy District Judge xxxx, who found for the Claimant (see attached as exhibit 1). 2. However, the agreement on which the case was based had been assigned to Capquest Ltd on 28 May 2009 (see Notice of Assignments, attached as exhibit 2 and 3) 3. Thus, at the trial date, the claimant had ceased to have right of action since the claimant no longer owned the alleged debt. 4. I respectfully draw the attention of the court to the attached Notice of Issue of Warrant of Execution as issued on 22 September 2009 (attached as exhibit 4). 5. I respectfully request the court to make an order setting aside the court's judgement in this case. Also, this was issued by Bedford County Court but original court is Brighton, which court should go in box for Court name? MadKit I'm nearly there!

Steven Using your wording, this is what I have put: 1. The claimant filed the claim in the case between claimant and defendant (case number XXX) and the case was heard on 15 June 2009 before Deputy District Judge XXX, who found for the Claimant. 2. However, the agreement on which the case was based had been assigned to Capquest Ltd on 28 May 2009 (see Notice of Assignments, attached as exhibit 1 and 2) 3. Thus, at the trial date, the claimant had ceased to have right of action since the claimant no longer owned the alleged debt. 4. I have attached the Notice of Issue of Warrant of Execution as issued on 22 September 2009 (attached as exhibit 3) 5. I respectfully request the court to make an order setting aside the court's judgement in this case. Is this correct? Should I mention that this is a Final Charging Order that they are trying to have paid out? I thought that if these were granted, no more action could be taken. Also, this was issued by Bedford County Court but original court is Brighton, which court should go in box for Court name? MadKit

Thank you Steven, will be done immediately! MadKit

Can someone answer please? I need an urgent response please as I have to submit an N244 form before the end of tomorrow. MadKit

Thank you everyone for your comments and support. I have detailed a timeline below and will fill out the N244 today. (Note - After 2 changes of solicitors, Brachers are now Amex solicitors even though I was not informed of this for some time, see below) 24 November - letter from Brachers - "you owe our Client £3869.81" 2 December - letter from Brachers - will issue legal proceedings even though I had been paying cheques to previous solicitors MdR and to Brachers 7 January 2009 - Judgment for Claimant (in default) - £3931.73 + £187 13 January 2009 - My acknowledgment of service and defence returned because of judgment being entered even though I had no idea a date had been set and I sent through the forms on 4 January so that was ample time. 24 February 2009 - received Notice of change of Solicitor from Brachers - they had been sending letters etc for months before this arrived 3 March 2009 - the two old claims I had for charges etc were "transferred to the Brighton County Court" - no idea why, they had been settled and the detail inside said "Upon reading the letter from the defendant's solicitors" and quoting the "new" claim for consolidation with case number XXXX which is to be the lead matter. 8 April 2009 - B132 Notice to a registered proprietor of an application to enter an agreed notice - Brachers on behalf of Amex for "equitable charge created by an interim charging order of the Brighton County Court dated 31 March 2009 in favour of American Express" - I received no notification of any court date 4 June 2009 - letter from Amex saying "American Express assigned your account to CapQuest on 29 May 2009 etc" and "CapQuest will start reporting against your credit file within 30 days of you receiving this letter" 4 June 2009 - letter from CapQuest (amount £3869.81) - "As agents for the purchasers of your debt we have been authorised to use the legal process to its full extent" etc 15 June 2009 - Final charging order - again no idea that this was taking place, no notification of court date. "heard neither party and the court orders that - 1. The charge created by order made on 31 March 2009 shall continue. 2. The interest of the defendant in the aset described below stand charged with payment of the sum the amount owing ...... of £6618.73 under judgment on 7 January 2009 plus £208.00..... 3. Costs to be added to the judgment debt" 25 June 2009 - Brachers - "please find enclosed copy of Final Charging Order which our client has obtained against your interest in the above property" 30 June 2009 - Brachers - "to enable our client to give matters further consideration, please complete and return the enclosed Financial Personal statement...." 2 July 2009 - CapQuest - "As you will now be aware your account is being processed for legal action" - amount £3869.81 23 July 2009 - Brachers - "our client is willing to accept £5603.87 in full and final settlement..." 27 July 2009 - CapQuest - "... we will seek an order of the court directing you to pay any monies owed" - amount £3908.51 22 September 2009 - Notice of Issue of Warrant of Execution - Claimant - American Express - "Unless you pay the amount due (£6928.90 before 26 September 2009 the bailiff will call...." So there you go, that is everything and I really don't understand the figures at all. How can Amex have sold this debt on and also applied for final charging order and now issuing a warrant? And how can CapQuest also be harrassing me to pay the original amount as well? Can you let me know what I need to put on the N244 please? Very MadKit

Thanks Shakespeare62, I have sent a couple of SARs and have received a copy of the application form a number of times. I also tried to have them return PPI as I never requested this, was self-employed too and they have no proof that I was even asked about it. The judge did make them pay back my charges and agreed that a claim for PPI could be re-instated as a separate claim. I will try and post the original court claim but as I need to respond to the Notice of Issue of Warrant of Execution (received 22 September) very quickly (before 26th September), I was wondering what I should send to the court before the latter date. I really don't want the bailiffs on my doorstep on Monday!

I was away when this court case was decided. Before the date, Amex sold the debt on and I am not sure if they told Brachers about this. I assumed the court case would not take place but it did and Amex "won". What do I do now? Help please! I can attach the summons from the court but it is normal stuff, "if you don't pay +£6,600 by 26 September we will seize your goods."

Oh I'm with you, 100% of the way!

Hi there, here is the long sad story hopefully in brief form. Fought Amex for return of PPI and charges, charges were "refunded" to the closed card account, including my court fees so for all my effort I never saw a penny of it. Amex only ever had an application form, no signed CCA etc and refused to refund PPI even though they had applied this without my consent or knowledge. After numerous changes of solicitors, somehow or another they had an order made on 31 March 2009 that I knew nothing about. There is also reference to a judgment or order on 7 January 2009, I sent in a response but they said it was received too late as the application had been received on 23 December 2008, I received notification on my return to UK on 6 January 2009. The solicitors knew I was not in the country as I had told them that I was sending a cheque early for agreed payment and deliberately sent through a CCJ when they knew I wouldn't be able to respond. Short story long, towards the end of June 2009, I recieved this from Brighton County Court. "On 15 June 2009 ....... heard neither party and the court orders that 1. The charge created by the order made on 31 March shall continue. 2. The interest in the asset (my house) ..... below stand charged with the payment of the sum etc etc The real awful thing here is that the solicitors have now sent me a very threatening letter telling me they are going to make application for an Order for Sale. American Express in the meantime have sold the debt on to CapQuest, before the charging order was made final. Surely they can't do both? How do I fight this? The solicitors have given me one week to accept the full and final offer of more than £5600, way more than the offer that Amex offered me 2 months ago and that the solicitors have not even mentioned and I obviously can't pay this. I want to get rid of this charging order, I have been reading other posts here and I have a lot of debt and many of these are much higher than the Amex one and already have one charging order on the house from an unsecured loan which I have just started to fight as well. Neither one of these took into account creditors I already have, a secured loan that I am fighting for return of PPI and there is no valid signed CCA. Do I need to fill in an N244 and what do I need to put in there? Help! Please!