Does that mean they won't be able to appeal?

Is this still a debt that they can default me for month after month??

I really wanted the CCA bit in the judgment so that other people could see that this was a point of law they could use with confidence.

Well, the judgment arrived from the court today:

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1) The claimant's application for summary judgment be dismissed.

2) The claimant's having failed to comply with the order of 14th May 2007 by failing to provide copies of card statements from February 2004 to July 2006 - claim stands struck out.

3) Claimant shall pay defendant's costs assessed at £50.00

Is this dissapointing or what?

No mention of CCA at all!

Did the judge leave this out on purpose??? :mad: :mad:

Monty, I've read your pm, I will post up all the details of this case when the papers saying 'struck out' arrive from the court. This should help with your defence. I must say, the ruling is taking a long time to get here, I hope I didn't just dream that I won!!!

Hi all,

My son had a lloyds tsb card years ago and a judgement was entered against him in 2004 (he was a wreckless uni student).

He now needs to get a mortgage and I am trying to sort this ccj out.

On 26th march 2007 sent CCA request and SAR to lloyds (from my son) but have received absolutely nothing back! They have cashed the postal orders. I am sure charges on this account will at least equal the debt plus he was paying PPI (surely this was not right, a 19 year old at uni doesn't have a job). I don't know what to do now, can anyone help please?

Westcot were chasing this debt in March 2007, do you think Lloyds could have sold the debt, how would I find this out?

The so called 'credit agreement' said on the top 'application for credit'.

There were no terms or conditions or APR. There was the bit about the consumer credit act 1974 in a small box and my signature was very clear, I will post it up with the court docs when they arrive!

I have left out some important info that I have just remembered.

The solicitors were just representing CL Finance and were not from the actual company.

Maybe this was because I had the hearing moved to my local court.

Thanks everyone, I was 'wobbly' and nearly gave in and offered payments, but I didn't have anything to lose by fighting.

It was a different judge, this one was really on the ball (and on my side I think). I really didn't have to say much as everything was written down in my statement. The whole session was recorded.

As long as the DCA only provide an application for credit, not the executed agreement, and you take along the relevent bits fron CCA 1974 +2006, they have no argument.

Wow, do I feel famous!

Wasn't expecting this kind of response from everyone and its great, but I think I need to clear a few things up.

First of all, there was a lot of money involved here, over £9,000.

The solicitors were given big case reference books to try and find the points I had raised (I think there were about 11) but the judge was reading them out so quickly they hardly had chance to turn the pages! (they did look silly)

Then one of them said about the statements being proof of the debt.

It was at this point that I gave the judge the statement saying the solicitor actually owned this debt. I admitted then that I had altered the statement myself to prove that anyone with a computer is capable of falsifying documents that are not signed.

No one mentioned anything about this being unlawful, but I knew the statement thing would be raised and thats why I did it.

Remember, two years of the statements were missing. Their argument was that the account was dormant therefore no need for statements, the judge's reply was statements have to be supplied at least every twelve months (one of my defence points).

This was the main structure of my defence:

Non compliance CCA 1974 s127(3)

60(1)(a) 60(1)(b) 60(1)©

61(1)(a) 61(1)(b) 61(1)©

78(1)(a) 78(1)(b) 78(1)© 78(4)(a)

79(1)

CCA 2006 not retrospective - Default under regulated agreements/ 11 (a)(b)©

House of Lords ruling: WILSON and others v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

I do hope this info will help anyone else in a similar position.

I will post the court docs/strike out when they arrive.

(not sure if I should show you doctored statement, could lock me up if spies watching...........)

Also, I asked for costs and was awarded £50 even though I hadn't gone prepared with anything written down!

I can't stop grinning, well pleased with the result.

I knew nothing about fighting a case like this before joining this sight. People here really know what they are talking about and the support gives you the courage and determination you wouldn't normally have the bottle for.

Well folks, went to court today with CL Finance and I won!

yep I won!!

Judge struck the case out on non compliance of CCA request. A copy of an application for credit is not acceptable.

I quoted the Wilson case as suggested by Rory and also took along copies of the facts stated in 1974 CCA and 2006 CCA, oh and I also took along a copy of my last statement which I had doctored to read that CL Finance's solicitor (two of them turned up to fight the case) actually owned the debt they were chasing me for!!! The judge agreed that this proved statements alone were not proof of debt.

The ten minute hearing turned into 2 1/2 hours, with law books being passed around. The judge pointed out that I actually knew more about points of law than both solicitors put together, red faces or what?

Thank you so much everyone for your help and advice, I'm moving on with confidence to the next one.

Do you know when the CCJ was made?

I have read somewhere here that a CCJ can be challenged at a later date if the debt included unfair charges and that you were, at the time unaware that these could be claimed back. I think the court can remove the CCJ on these grounds and then the proccess starts again. CL Finance would have to re-apply for the CCJ and at this point you ask for CCA.

I am pretty sure they wouldn't be able to produce it because I am in court next week with CL Flidiots, they sent me the usual copy of credit card application.

Lisa, not sure what you mean, please explain.

Thanks Dom, I have many CCJ's and none of the debts are statute barred yet, but don't worry I am getting plenty of help here. I'm in court next week (see thread 'IN COURT WITH CL FINANCE') and this is just the first of many. I have moved on in many respects now. I have just been granted Patent on my own product and have gone into production, manufacturing and importing from China. Money is very tight as I cannot get credit so I am having to save very hard (very supportive hubby) for each step of my new venture. We all need to move on, if I can do it, anyone can!

Don't let these bxxxxds win and ruin your lives !!!!!!!!!

Yes I think they are but I'm not 100% sure, you need to talk to Cits Adv B.

Dom, when hubby went bankrupt I was advised to put the debts in with the bankruptcy by the court who made him bankrupt. I did this but as soon as he was discharged the debts in joint names were sold to DCA'S who are now all after me. Apparently this is legal. I now have sooo many charges on the property it is in neg equity even though its still 'OWNED' by the Official receiver!

You say the debt has now gone up to £12,005 from £1,000, how?? or am I reading this wrong!

Unfortunately council tax is the one debt that can be enforced in this way without going to court. I would contact your husband asap, get him home to try and negotiate with the council very quickly.

We had similar problems with council tax. We wrote a very 'nice' letter and enclosed income and expenditure with an amount we could afford to pay each month. They accepted this and as long as you don't default on the agreed payments they will leave you alone.

Why don't you give CAB a call to see if they can help?

Good luck!

I feel I have to join in this debate. I do not want to pay off any of my debts, nor do I feel guilty about this. At the moment I am fighting many creditors, about £30,000 owing. All of these debts had PPI and refused to pay out when my husband lost his company in a successful take over bid and he eventually went bankrupt. Joint debts were transferred to me (disabled 52 year old with no income). Our house now belongs to the official receiver, our car etc was taken and we have had the humiliation of numerous baillifs and debt collectors turning up at all hours. I went into deep depression for a while but now I'm fighting back!

Cheers diskmandave! Think i'm going to need it.

Posted my defence to court today. I asked for the case to be struck out on the grounds of non compliance with the judges request for statements and failing to supply CCA. Also quoted and copied some of the rules of CCA and sent copies of the relevant facts of the Wilson case.

I'd like to thank Rory for his help (and patience) and for his guidance!

I will be in court next week so will keep you all posted.

My husband has just read my thread and thinks that the judge can see I applied for credit with RBS, I used the card and spent the money, CL Finance bought the debt legally, and really I should just make an offer of payment before a judgement is made and another charging order goes on the property. He thinks the CCA argument is futile as its merely a dodge people use to avoid paying their debts and judges will be wising up to this.

Anyone any thoughts on this??

Yes, this is exactly what they have done. They have applied for a summary judgement in their favour based on their assumption that ' the Defendant has no real prospect of successfully defending the claim' and 'The Claimant is not aware of any other reason why the disposal of the claim should await trial'.

Clearer now thanks. Sorry, I'm trying to put together a letter to the court to get this case struck out before the hearing and I got side tracked by my colourful credit report! This is really messing with my brain cells and I don't want to appear in court again! Can they strike this out before the court date based on my defence?

I see what you're saying Rory, but how could a default be registered to CL on 20/02/04 when they didn't own the debt until 2006?

Help!

Just been looking through my credit report from Experian and the debt that CL Finance bought from RBS isn't there.

What I mean is there is no debt to RBS on my credit file.

There is a default registered to CL Finance on 20/02/04 (this is when the statements stopped from RBS) BUT THEY DIDN'T BUY THE DEBT UNTIL AUG 2006!! What's going on here?

Yes, I think you are right.

The letter sent from the court with the statements says:

The hearing of the claimants application for Summary Judgment will take place at 10.30 on 27th June 2007.

Part of the evidence states:

The defendant entered into a regulated credit agreement with RBS, a copy of the said agreement attached. The copy is of an application for credit.

There is a balance of xxxxx outstanding under the agreement and a copy of statements for the account from Feb 2002-July 2006 attached. Statements from 2004-2006 are missing.

I am now going to take Rory's advice and fight this to the gruesome end!

My defence will be based on non compliance of the requested statements and failing to supply CCA.

Can anyone advise me about a couple of things please?

1) Should I attach a copy of the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

2) How should my defence be set out?

Thanks in advance!!!