had a phone call late yesterday, offering to settle. Email followed shortly after with the offer in writing. A bit short of what I was asking for but they have included my court fees. Now I know I'm entitled to ask for extra compensation (expenses, loss of earnings going to court, parking !!) but I can't be bothered. So have agreed the amount with Lloyds. Need to contact the court today, and then wait for them to credit my account. So hopefully the end is in sight. mim

So its been a while and I have had absolutely no contact from Lloyds. My next court date is this Monday (25th June at Kingston again), and although I'm apprehensive because the previous judge said he didn't expect to see me again, I'm pretty fed up with Lloyds. All I have had is a letter from a new firm of solicitors representing Lloyds, saying they are now handling the case. They are very friendly when I call them, but with 2 working days before the next court date, I think it doubtfull I will get a settlement letter from them in advance. They say this is because Lloyds have not "got their act together". But I wonder if they are spinning me a yarn? And when I get to court I will have a battle on my hands? Any comments gratefully received!! Mim This means another lost morning from work for me. Any suggestions? I intend to be more prepared this time, get my spreadsheets and photocopies in good order.

Hello all an update for you. Went to court yesterday, and although Lloyds had sent a letter saying they would not be attending, someone was there representing them. The judge was very nice and very much on my side. He was not happy with lloyds that they had not settled with me. Conversation went a bit like this: Judge - why hasn't this been settled? Lloyds - We are requesting full disclosure and direction for order. Me - I have also requested Draft order for directions in my allocation questionnaire. Judge to Lloyds- so are you really trying to tell me you don't know how much you have charged her? don't you have records? Lloyds - bit flustered - well we do have records but we are seeking clarification from the claimant as to how these costs are calculated. Me - I have provided spreadsheets detailing the charges I am disputing. I am only disputing the Overdraft Excess Fees , not normal account charges or interest. Judge to me - May I see the copies of your correspondance to the bank? (so luckily I had taken all my court stuff with me and had copies of everything.) Judge to me - and did you receive confirmation from the bank that they had received this information? Me - No I have only had limited correspondance from the Bank and none from their representatives despite contacting them on several occasions. However when I saw the Banks defense the final sentance refers to the fact I was requesting bank charges over 6 years which were statute barred. I took this to mean they had reviewed my spreadsheets and had picked up on a charge I had included which was over the 6 year time period. Judge - That is a perfectly reasonable view to have taken, and I completely understand why you would think that. any reasonable person would think the same, however in this case Lloyds use a standard defense which they use for every claim irrespective of the different case. Therefore this does not necessarily mean you have input anything incorrectly on your spreadsheets. Judge to Lloyds - In my opinion you are not contesting liability here are you? Lloyds - mumble swerve Judge - But you are not contesting the liability of this claim - merely the calculations of Mrs Ward-Jacobs, and now she had supplied the details of her calculations here in my presence I am witness to the fact Lloyds have now been served with the necessary informaion and that you can now proceed with settlement. Lloyds - I shall forward this information to my client, and will proceed. The case has been adjourned to the 25/6/07 but the judge expects us to reach settlement prior to this date. The Lloyds man was actually very nice as he can see both sides of the case, so we went together for him to take copies of my spreadsheets. He told me off the record they are settling all claims, and that lloyds will not want to go back to court on the 25.6.07 as the costs are too high for them. Also they do not want mine to turn into the "test case". He also said they will never admit liability which was what the judge was trying to imply) becase that would open the floodgates of claims. So in theory I should hear from Lloyds within the next few weeks with a settlement offer. I feel like holding out for the full amount plus court fees and costs which is now over £4k. As they have put me under a lot of stress, and going to court is not really a nice experience. Its so alien to my usual sphere of life. Anyway futher update as and when I hear from Lloyds. Mim

Will see you in court then !! I wonder if different banks will be in the same hearing? I would have thought there would be different hearings for different defendants. But maybe not. What documentation are you taking? mim

Hello again I have now received a Notice of allocation Hearing which will take place on the 20.4.07 at Kingston Court 5 minutes has been allocated for the Allocation Hearing. On the back of the notice is another letter which basically says that the district judge has decided a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made. I am ordered to attend (which I am happy to do) The case has been listed with other similar cases. I think he is dealing with Lloyds in one block. Then it says "This would be subject to any representations by any of the parties involved in such cases proposed to be dealt with together that he should do otherwise" Does this mean as long as none of us object to being heard at the same time? The judge wants to see if any of the cases can be settled, also to see if it is desirable for more than one case to be finally heard with other cases, and if so which. what documents and evidence should be heard, whether any should be tried as test cases. The court will not hear from any witnesses as to the facts of the case, but will be giving directions for the final hearing. Has anyone else had one of these? Does this mean my draft request has been ignored? Any comments would be appreciated. mim

Thanks Will. Just out of interest how long does it take before you hear if the judge has accepted the draft order for directions? I took my allocation questionnaire in on the 19th March, but in a previous thread "the 3 roses" said it took about a week before they heard from the bank. mim

Hello All Just to confirm I took my Allocation Questionnaire to the court yesterday, with the new strategy and directions attached. Paid my £100, and am now waiting to see what happens next. In the meantime I am working on getting my spreadsheets more user friendly, in case the directions are agreed and I need to get my info in within 14 days. Does anyone have a template which has already been sent to the court to show the charges etc? If there is a format which has already been through the court process, I would rather transfer my information into this, rather than relying on my judgement for what the Judge and Court will like the look of. Many thanks mim (still quite nervous about the prospect of standing up in court!!)

thanks Gary will crack on with this over the weekend, and then get posted off monday. I have until the end of March but think it better to send the questionnaire off asap with the extra £100.00 Will Scarlet - stay in touch and we can compare progress !!

Thankyou for that. Am I correct that I should insert the following in the "other" information, and also at this time it is not necesssary to send the order for directions? (I got this from one of your other threads!!) Or shall I request they take into consideration the "order for directions" at this time? Also I am slightly concerned my bundle of documentation so far consists of copies of my letters to the bank, letters from Lloyds, my spreadsheets with the charges calculated, and copies of the bank statements (also a few cuttings from newspapers) but is this relevant at this stage? You -v- Bank Plc Claim No:******* N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire Section G/H - other information The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order. If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously. - The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's. - In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is imcumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts. As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Hello All, so here is the full details of the defence - by the way the allocation questionaire is a N149. 1)the defendant address 2)By opening the account the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled as part of that arrangement to charge for those sevices. At account opeing a customer is provided with details of the banks charges, currently a feaflet.By using the account the customer acknowleges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. (they then list all the things they provide for free) 3) By maintaining the acount in credit, or within any agreed limit the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments the customer makes a request fora payment to be made from the banks own funds.If the bank makes the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet, and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. (blah blah for a bit, then) where you go overdrawn without an agreement we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply. If you want to use a service we haven't listed, we will tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go ahead. 4) There is no breach of contract, the charge cannot therefore be a penalty consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the banks loss. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed, statements show the charges the customer has incurred. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn, or over the agreed limit. If the customer fails to rectify the position and payments are refused then again the customer is warned. 6) the charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied they are unlawful. 7) The customer is notified in plain language. The charges are tems which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to regulation 6 of the Unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999 are not subject to the assessment of fairness. 8) In the premises: the charges are for banking services and are not damages nor a penalty; the bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges which are fair and reasonable; it is denied the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation. 9)Inso far as part of the claimants claim is based on charges levied oprior to6 years, that is 16th Feb 2001. this part of the claim is statute barred. The defendant is unable to verify the amount claimed prior to the 16.2.01 as the statement of claim does not show how the claim is arrived at. 10) Claim is denied in its entirety. further denied that the claimant is entitles to the sum claimed, or to any sum from the bank. phew Any comments would be appreciated !! Mim

hello I started off by reading the Martin Lewes moneyexpert.com website. its quite user friendly and will get you started. Good luck

Thankyou, when I get home tonight I shall post all 10 of the points which they said. Another was that one of the charges I was claiming for was past the 6 year cut off (by a few days!!). so does this invalidate my whole claim? mim

Hello a bit of background first - I have followed the Martin Lewes Money Saving website directions for making a claim for unfair charges against Lloyds. First sent letter requesting the bank statements for the last 6 years. then sent 1st letter requesting a repayment from them. Got standard reply saying the charges were fair. Then send second letter threatening to take legal action (no reply). 3rd letter sent threatening legal action but offering to settle (no reply) Started court action via the Money claim and paid £120 court fee. Lloyds have now said they will defend the claim. Have just received Allocation Questionnaire from Lloyds. They have issued 10 points in their defence. Amongst others the bank is entitled to charge for services and that I have acknowledged that the charges are part of my contract with them (i havent). Also that there is no breach of contract, therefore the charge cannot be a penalty. Advanced warning of charges is given (not true) . the charges are fair and reasonable and therefore lawful. They are not subject to the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations. the charges are for a service . Obviously I am scared about going to court. I shall complete the form, and send the extra £100, but am worried about appearing in court to defend this. Any tips? Many thanks Mim

Have just received Allocation Questionnaire from Lloyds. They have issued 10 points in their defence. Amongst others the bank is entitled to charge for services and that I have acknowledged that the charges are part of my contract with them (i havent). Also that there is no breach of contract, therefore the charge cannot be a penalty. Advanced warning of charges is given (not true) . the charges are fair and reasonable and therefore lawful. They are not subject to the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations. the charges are for a service . Obviously I am scared about going to court. I shall complete the form, and send the extra £100, but am worried about appearing in court to defend this. Any tips? thanks Mim