Bazak1 & Buzby The activity happened over a Sat, Sun & Mon, funny I checked my balance on the Saturday morning and everything looked fine, didn't go into my online banking on the Sunday,(wish I had) On the Monday evening went online and that is when I spotted the fraud, I rang the bank straight away using my pin number to get through to telephone banking. We reported the fraud straight away and got a crime number. We have had the funds refunded, but thats not the point, the issue here is, I have serious doubts, regarding privacy, confidentiality, procedures etc. and as said the bank appear (or say) they have no trace of the fraudsters tracks, which I find near on Impossible. Buzby, I respect that you are being honest and truthful, I would not want you to say otherwise, and you are perfectly correct in when you say the bank have o intention of disclosing how they facilitate the fraudster. I will wait until I receive the SAR and the DPA to see what they reveal, If we are still being "fobbed" off and getting conflicting information, then I WILL proceed down the judge route, the attachment alone that we were sent in error (via email) confirms the bank keep contradicting their answers, the good thing is we have most of the calls recorded, I would have thought that if the bank were at fault, when questions were asked, we would be given the same answer regardless, but we have been told different answers to the same questions, and at times different answers to the same question to the same members of staff. I am so glad we have the telephone recordings:lol:

Buzby, Maybe I have not explained myself properly LOL, basically I need to know did the bank follow security properly when the fraudster rang the call centre to make 4 out of the 8 transactions. To transfer funds via telephone banking when you first speak to an operator you have to pass security 3/4 questions, I want to know what questions were asked, did the fraudster answer the questions correctly, I know for a fact that this bank PROMPT you if you are unable to answer and say "I cant remember" "can you give me a clue" so I need to know that they have not breeched my privacy/confidential/personal details. 4 of the transfers were made automatedly where you do not need to speak with an operator - to do this you have to have a pin number, now as said I rearly use telephone banking maybe twice a year, the fraudster actually used my pin number, the reason I know this is when I spotted the fraudulent activity I rang telephone banking to report it and used my pin number. so how has the fraudster obtained my pin number, I have different pins for debit cards and online banking so I find this strange. Why did none of the operators spot unusual activity? on third day the fruadster managed to transfer funds 6 times surely this should have been picked up. I understand that I am allowed the names of the accounts that my money went to, but surely I would not be allowed to have their account numbers, this was included in the attachment that we were sent in error. Just to say that I spoke to the fraud department last week, I was basically told that the fraud department now exhausted all their options and I as taken up a lot of their time when they had other fraud cases to deal with. Have this conversation recorded, I replied with "I am not going to go down that route, you are dealing with my account and high value fraud I need to know how it has happend" How can a member of the fraud department make that kind of statement. We have so many different answers, it just does not seem to add up, something not quite right, are they hiding something?? I need to know that they have followed procedures correctly.

Hi Nattie, Thanks for the advice, I thought telephone call centre operators always typed up a brief encounter of the call, for example what would happen if when you rang the call centre again, (say a week later) and previously there had been a problem, the telephone operator that was now taking the call would have no history notes to look back on, so how would the operator know what was last said etc. I had a friend that worked for a call centre and they always typed up notes on the customers account either during the call or after. What would happen if there was a major problem, for example the customer was threatening to take the bank to court. The banks claim that only 90% of their calls are recorded, and for example say the call centre telephone operator that customer spoke to did not type up any notes on the account. Now the call was unfortunately not recorded (as the bank only record 90% of the calls) and their are no notes to back up what the customer said. Is it the case that there is always a possibility that if there were no telephone recordings, no call centre telephone operator/s typed up notes, then obviously nothing could be investigated as there is no trace. Can banks really take this kind of risk, they would need evidence for their own purposes. In answer to your question are the police involved, "yes" we have reported this to the police and we do have a crime number, the police will not get involved in this type of fraud as the loss lies with the Bank, as it is the bank that lose the money, the police will get involved, once and if the bank catch/suspect whom the fraudster/s are.

Back in January my joint bank account was subject to high value fraud (£4,500) which was achieved over 3 days via telephone banking. Day one £300 transferred - achieved via automated telephone banking Day two £300 transferred – achieved via automated telephone banking Day three 4 X £300 1 X £100 and a Standing Order for £2,500 transferred of the 8 fraudulent transactions (we will call him the fraudster) the fraudster spoke to a telephone banking operator on four separate occasions, the last being to set up the Standing Order. When I noticed the activity on my account I rang the bank via telephone banking and used my PIN number to report the fraud. I have had to ring the fraud department every time for information as they have not been forthcoming with keeping me informed of what is going on. I have requested the telephone recordings and or the transcripts of the conversations as I need to be sure procedures were followed correctly. I have been told that there are no telephone recordings or any transcripts of the conversations. When the fraudster called and spoke to the telephone operators (please correct me if I am wrong) but each operator would have typed up a brief description of what the conversation was about. I have asked for these and have been told that there are no typed notes on our account when the fraudster called. I have asked when the fraudster made the transfers automatedly, then surely they must have had my telephone banking PIN number, I have been told the fraudster initially probably by passed this option and spoke to a telephone banking operator and had enough personal information to pass security, the fraudster then says they have either forgotten or lost the telephone banking PIN and are able to change the PIN number, this then enables the fraudster to transfer the money without having to speak to anyone. This cannot be the case as I used my original PIN number to report the fraud and if you do need to change your PIN number for what ever reason, you would be sent a new pin by post this is quoted on the banks web site. I have asked why no operator suspected unusual activity as it was clearly obvious by say the 4th transfer that something was not quite right. I have been told we TRY to make sure our operators are able to suspect unusual activity. I find this all very strange as I very rarely use telephone banking (maybe once or twice a year) also the only place my telephone banking pin number is held is in my head, my online banking details are totally different to my telephone banking details as is my debit card pin. I have been in regular contact with the fraud department, I have documented every conversation, I have now started to record the conversations to which they do not seem to happy with, I tell them before we start the conversation that this call may be recorded, they usually reply with “oh ok” I have left the best till last: Now I have been asking for the telephone recordings of the calls the fraudster actually spoke with a telephone operator, I have very conflicting answers on this, I have been told, there are no recordings, there is one recording, the call centres that took the calls do not records their calls yet. I have also asked for transcripts of the recordings, but they do not appear to have those either Now I have also asked, for copies of the telephone operators notes that they type up so they have a history of the call on the account, I have been told the operators did not type up any notes, (what none of the operators) Mmmmm strange I have been asking for emails to be sent for confirmation, and this is the best, the bank has actually sent me an attachment that I should not have seen. This reveals that the fraudster did in fact speak to an operator on 4 separate occasions, the call centres that I have been told do not record their calls, well actually they do, this attachment tells me the bank account details of the fraudsters, it tells me the Initials of the person they spoke to, the PC ID number, the time of the calls, the fraudster actually spoke to the same operator at 9.34 and again at 11.30 what are the chances of that happening. These are the calls that they cannot get hold off. I have asked the fraud department if this case went to court they are not going to appear with recordings, or operators notes, they stumble and do not answer the question. I have also asked what security questions did the operators ask the fraudster, I get told I do not know, I have also asked why did none of the operators spot unusual activity on the account, bearing in mind the fraudster achieved 6 transactions on the last day, the last being the S/O of £2,500 the answer to that was we try to get out staff to spot unusual activity. I have now sent a SAR and a DPA clocks ticking. I need to know if the bank has messed up with security, protecting my Identity and followed procedures. I need to know or my own piece of mind. One last thing the fraud department, in error again let slip the names of the accounts that the transfers went too, so now I have the names and bank account numbers, breech of the DPA for releasing confidential information to a 3rd party am I correct.

BAZ, To be honest it is not a simple case, I have had the money refunded, but the point is the fraudulent activity happened due to the (I am of the opinion) bank failing to complete security properly; this attachment has helped me confirmed what I suspected Basically I have emails from two separate members of staff stating that the calls related to the fraudulent activity were not recorded, also another member of staff (have the email again) confirms that the call centre where the calls were taken, do not record any of them. Yet the attachment says different.

Bazak1, I sent the SAR Special Delivery, I have not actually sent the SAR to my bank to claim back my bank charges,(although I will be claiming at a later stage) it is in relation to fraudulent activity on my bank account, unfortunately the bank in question have accidentally sent me an attachment via email, that I should not have seen. This attachment in question along with several emails reveals 100% that they are actually lying about several things. I would imagine the person responsible for accidentally sending the attachment will probably be disciplined if not even dismissed. On the other hand he/she has given me a crucial piece of evidence;)

I sent a SAR Special Delivery, It was signed for on 15th Feb, but they have not cashed the cheque yet. I know they have 40 days, but would have expected the cheque to be cashed by now. does it ususally take a while for the Banks to cash the cheque

I am having terrible trouble with my Bank over a fraud issue (Iwon't bore you with the details). I have been trying to access either transcript copies or telephone recordings of the conversations that were held on my account. I have been told by 2 different members of staff in the fraud department that they have 3 of the conversations, yet I received a phone call yesterday from one of the 2 members of staff now stating that they do not have any information recorded nor do they have any information typed on the account i.e. when a person calls the call center the operator makes notes of the conversation on the screen for reference purposes. The reason for me wanting this information is that I need to satisfy my mind that the Bank have conducted security properly & I need to make sure that that they did not prompt the person for passwords etc. This particular Bank have a terrible habit of prompting and being very lax with their security. I did ask should this case go to court (i think they have caught the suspect) obviously I would have to attend, you are not going to produce telephone recordings are you? the reply was er er er no. I have asked for the conversation to be confirmed by email. I want to send a Subject Access request, but obviously I want to word the letter to request Full Data held on my account i.e notes from call centers etc. Can anyone give me an idea of how to compose this as I just cannot get my head around this to word it correctly. Thanks

Mark, Im 41, you are young compared to me doing a Degree!!!

Ok, I have sent an email to request the details on how to appeal, I will let you know how I get on. I am on Bussiness Informations degree hoping to qualify as an Business Analysis, the company that I am doing my placement with, have offered me a permanant position, which is great. I was really pleased as the company have never taken on a student before, so I feel quite honored. What suprised me was I have only been on the placement since September and they offered me the position just before christmas. My wife is also in the process of trying to become a Magistrate, she currently works and her employers have agreed to support her, and have no problems in her taking time off if she gets through the process stages. The only reason I am doing a degree was I had to take my last company to the employment tribunal for constructive dismissal. Once that was over, I decided to go for a complete career change. LOL Its not been easy, especially trying to study when you have a wife and young son.

Nattie, Thanks for your reply, I do want to appeal, but I am concerned they would ask for all the overpayment back. On the other hand, you are quite right all our Working Familes Tax Credits were adjusted accordingly, as some of the grants are taken into account i.e. you get less WFTC, therefore as they are just going to stop the grant payments, we not only lose out with the grant, but we also lose out on WFTC. I am fuming as we were very clear and thorough when we completed all the forms, and we even sent a letter in to the LEA confirming the placement and how much I would be earning etc. It just makes me annoyed by the fact they can just stop the payments.

This is my first post & I am not sure whare I stand. I am a mature student currently doing a 4 year degree at University, the degree enables you to either do a palcement for your 3rd year or you can go back and do your final year. I looked into doth options as I have a wife & young child, appiled for all the usual grants, from the LEA etc. even rang the LEA and told them that I had been offered a placement and what my income would be, confirmed this in writing. The company have asked me if I would consider completing my last year over a two year period and work for them on a part time basis with the oportunity to go full time when I get my degree, however I decided to ring the LEA and ask what my entitlement would be should I decide to choose this option. The nice lady informed that, infact we have been looking at your application and actually you have been paid far too much this year and you will not be getting your next grant instalment, she went on to say thhat this was totally their fault and they would not be asking for any of the overpayment back. (I have this confirmed in an email) She also said that I could appeal should this cause any harship etc. Where do I stand as a) I would have gone back & done my last year had I known that I would have not got as much funding, plus all my WFTC had been awarded accordingly, some grants they take into consideration and some they dont. The LEA have left me in a mess as I obviously have budgeted for the year, and now they are telling me I am not getting any more funding/instalments because of their mistake. Do they have a right to do this, just stop the payments?? Any help would be appreciated.