If o2 claimed I was responsible for running up a £2000 phone bill over a period of a "couple of days" there would be certain questions I would want o2 to answer. The numbers called and times and duration of calls.

what do you mean by international calls? were the calls international/domestic numbers? or international/premium rate umbers?

In 2004 the regulator Icstis claims the problem of premium rate numbers appearing on peoples phone bills was huge. So why did BT apparently mislead the media as to the true scale of complaints concerning premium rate phone calls appearing on their customers' phone bills?

yes quite but something I can't see from the thread. Yes I agree, I don't think anybody here was seriously suggesting that but How do you know external plant was being targeted? and why did BT say if BT told the truth in 2004 what are the tens of thousands of people mentioned in this BBC program claiming. BBC NEWS | Business | The Great Phone Call Con

why did BT say this? when

thankyou k, yes of of course you are correct. So the 090 appear sky/tv interactive related the various 0845 WWW.CAMBERLEY.ORG.UK - Welcome to Camberley Community Website Lloyds TSB and "0845 604 3550 " - Google Search car insurance (Sheila's Wheels) @ k if you want to search the rest google various ways "0845 604 3550" and "0845 6043550" and "08456 043 550 " etc. the 08715551555 - services G is an interactive tv TV Programs - EuroTV : Best Direct are any of these numbers the type of number you would knowingly dial? ................................................................................ @ Gino32 It appears BT misled "the village people" (and buzzer) in 2004

were BT telling the truth or were they afraid the press was going to rumble the scale of fraudulent "rogue dialler" activity on BT's billing platform? @klubbinlass321 most if not all your numbers are interactive TV premium rate numbers. dialled from your sky digibox using your remote control. you can check them on the Icstis website ICSTIS Consumer - Number Checker

ditto doesn't leave many options as to who gave the crooks his number! o2 Online Ltd's recent Icstis record http://www.icstis.org.uk/consumers/adjudications/default.asp?mode=1&serviceprovider=O2+Online+Ltd&servicetype=&fine=0&submit=+search+ here's one of the board members of the "independant" regulator best of luck Darren

The Great Phone Call Con .

Quite futher information can be found here Bibliomania: Free Online Literature and Study Guides here's a case concerning Orange customers from 13 September 2006 Icstis claimed they recieved 6 complaints The Orange billing platform in common with other billing platforms has a mechanism to identify Artifically Inflated Traffic (AIT). Orange, BT etc use this mechanism to protect themselves from fraud. Why don't they use it to protect thier customers from fraud?

are you connected to the biz buzz The reason I ask. Several months ago I posted information concerning a particular internet dialler fraud case. I thought at the time it was strange that you should be so eager to attack the victims of that fraud in order to protect the companies involved. I realise that subject can appear complicated to some and that's what I put your apparent misunderstanding down to. Now with unsolicited reversed billed text messages I find it very difficult to see how any body could try to justify them.

the sending of "unsolicited reverse billed text messages" are unlawful in two ways. and Knowingly taking money you are not legally entitled to is theft. and yes why don't the police investigate it. Because the government instructed to police to refer all complaints to Icstis. As soon as somebody tries to defend this you can be pretty sure they are involved in the industry somehow. The government knows that if the con, [problem], fraud and theft marketing methods the telecom/premium rate industry employ were "outlawed" the industry would go tits up.

what a load of bull and not for the first time I can only asssume you are "on the game". @ Gino Have you asked anybody for a refund. If so what reply? "I'm a consultant to Moby Magic" actually he's the Director of Marketing for PNC. NOC E-Newsletter: PNC appoints new marketing director as part of business expansion Remember PNC buzby? PNC aka Telecom One? "The Great Phone Call Con"? BBC NEWS | Business | The Great Phone Call Con

hi Gino32 yes you are totally correct. These thefts committed by the premium rate industry in partnership with the mobile billing platforms are extremely common. The DTI, Ofcom and Icstis know exactly what is going on. Unsolicited reverse billed theft happens because the market place has been rigged to allow it to happen. Who was the content provider? Have you any details? Ask your operator details of the "service" they billed for.

The whole premium rate industry is a revenue sharing criminal disgrace. The regulators Ofcom and Icstis should be horse whipped. Why the hell are they letting companies use '09' premium rate numbers that were intended to be used for the payment of crap like tarot readings and chat lines? and yes, strictly speaking they should have informed you in the letter the price rate of the call.

out of interest; what were the numbers?

High-tech cops probe premium-rate Internet fraud - ZDNet UK so did they? So what did Icstis tell the police? Why aren't the thousands of victims entitled to an answer to this question?

is it Ring Tone King aka Ringtoneking? If you are "pay as you go" best of luck. lexa did you subscribe to the service?

BBC NEWS | Business | The Great Phone Call Con The Danish business identyfied in this BBC program was later convicted of an almost identical telecom fraud in a Hamburg court. The following are the Majorcan service providers and the numbers they used that were responsible for 20% of all dialler related UK complaints throughout 2004. They were all setup by the same group ncluding the Danish business man. ( to moderator This is the contact infomation for the public taken from the Icstis web site. It is not personal details ) Amara Amichi 2000 SL 0909 967 7600 to 0909 967 9299 = 1700 0909 967 9608 to 0909 967 9907 = 300 Quizir SL 0909 967 3544 to 0909 967 3578 = 35 0909 967 3579 to 0909 967 3598 = 20 0909 967 5000 to 0909 967 5099 = 100 0909 967 6060 to 0909 967 6459 = 400 0909 967 7100 to 0909 967 7599 = 500 Inversion Zarnoza SL 0909 967 7600 to 0909 967 8099 = 500 Cala De Plata SL 0909 967 8100 to 0909 967 8599 = 500 Mesa rotation SL 0909 967 8600 to 0909 967 9099 = 500 supplied by Amara Amichi 2000 SL Middleton holdings ltd 0909 967 9100 to 0909 967 9299 = 200 0909 967 9608 to 0909 967 9907 = 300 Premium Media Communications 0909 967 2808 to 0909 967 2808 = 1 0909 967 2995 to 0909 967 2999 = 5 0909 967 3654 to 0909 967 3953 = 300 Jokomo Media SL 0909 967 3242 to 0909 967 3261 = 20 0909 967 0019 to 0909 967 0029 = 11 0909 967 0046 to 0909 967 0055 = 10 0909 967 0582 to 0909 967 0601 = 10 0909 967 2830 to 0909 967 2849 = 20 0909 967 2942 to 0909 967 2966 = 25 Telecolux SL 0909 967 3217 to 0909 967 3241 = 25 Ibero Latino De Telecomuniccaciones 0909 967 3002 to 0909 967 3006 = 5

I understand and agree with most of what you say but it doesn't explian some fundamental questions. Please don't take umbridge at my questioning some of your remarks. "I think you, the customer" At what point did I become a customer ? Who was I a customer of ? "The Rogue Dialler has fooled you and BT" It fooled me into down loading it but did that constitute any thing that could be described as any part of a legal agreement? Did it fool me into handing over money for a non-existant service? Did it really fool BT? http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/1394/icinvestcolour1final2cy.jpg Premium Media Comunications sl under investigation 1st Jan 2004 onwards. Eight months and several thousand identical complaints later BT are still billing the same number. BT's original excuses used to justify demanding payment from the "customer" were. "we have no way of knowing if the number was dialled by the customer or a rogue dialler" Surely if BT are operating their billing platform on behalf of Telecom One it's their responsibility for ensuring it's protected from fraudulent use. and "we have passed the money on before we have recieved the complaint" This was just plain false. BT were still passing money on after many thousands of complaints. BT's actions showed a reckless lack of the duty of care.

Yes I think your correct in the way you describe the chain. So who has the comercial relationship with the customer? Who has accepted responsibility for retailing the service? EUROPEAN COMMISSION Brussels, 4.05.2005 SG-Greffe (2005) D/202091 Office of Communications Riverside House BT has clearly accepted payment for "retailing" the service. BT has always claimed it only takes a small amount for carrying the call and pass the rest on. This clearly was never true. Why does BT insist the "customer" has to dispute the bill with the "service provider". If BT has agreed to accept payment for retailing the services in the UK, have they a legal duty to ensure those services do not contravine uk consumer/legal laws?

Not quite. Icstis has only ever regulated the "service provider" for the content and promotion of the service. In this case that would have been the Majorcan companies. They are also responsible for ensuring any dialler used to market that service is compliant with their code.(but this was only re-introduced in Aug 2004) Telecom One would have been considered a "carrier" and regulated by Ofcom. It may be the case today that Icstis may consider Telecom One to also have been responsible for supplying the "service" (I'm not sure). Icstis Powers to investigate and regulate. Well, despite what they claimed in the media at the time it appears they had little or no powers. The DTI (I think) refused Icstis the power to obtain the identities of the service providers that had agreements with the UK Telecom companies. Hence the above Ofcom case. So why did the DTI decide the Industry should be policed by a regulator with so few powers?

The Great Icstis Con (Icstis are sponsered by the Premium Rate Industry) These are the main Majorcan "service providers":- Premium Media Comunications SL Cala De Plata SL Inversion Zarnosa SL Quizir SL Amara Amichi 2000 SL Ibero Latino De Telecomuniccaciones Mesa Rotation SL that targeted the thousands of victims in this BBC program using 3,500 Telecom One premium rate numbers. The Great Phone Call Con BBC NEWS | Business | The Great Phone Call Con They accounted for 20% of all complaints throughout 2004. This is what Icstis said at the time High-tech cops probe premium-rate Internet fraud - ZDNet UK Ofcom case from 2005. CW/00833/04/05 ICSTIS complaint regarding failure of Telecom One to comply with Directions | Ofcom Email from Icstis : "However, when ICSTIS investigates these complaints, it often finds that the companies concerned appear to be conforming to ICSTIS' standards" anyone recognise any names? The Great Phone Call Con

So did BT infringe the POCA act in 2004. Was the money "dirty"? Did they have any reason to believe the money was dirty? High-tech cops probe premium-rate Internet fraud - ZDNet UK The half a dozen "service providers" involved in my case were using 3,500 numbers. Icstis had recieved many thousands of complaints concerning each one. Were Icstis misleading the media when they said 300? Or were they trying to protect the Majorcan companies? Did they report the Majorcan case that represented 20% of all dialler related complaints to the police? Did Icstis supply the identities of the Majorcan companies to the police? Did they make them aware of the 3,500 premium rate numbers and the thousands of complaints they were recieving? Did they tell the police that despite the high level of complaint they were un-aware of the content of the "internet services" or how the services were being promoted and marketed? Well I don't know, basically I am unable to obtain a response from the police. There is something else that left a stink. The Majorcan gang were using 3,500 revenue sharing premium rate numbers supplied by Telecom One ltd. In 1997 Morten Sondergaard Pedersen was a dircetor of Telecom One.

BBC NEWS | Business | The Great Phone Call Con The group of Majorcan "service providers" identified on post#8 were using 3,500 Telecom One premium rate numbers. 0909967**** Many (if not all) had been under Icstis investigation from 1st Jan 2004 onwards This Guardian article, from Saturday July 3, 2004. The numbers racket costing you a fortune | The Guardian | Guardian Unlimited I contacted him some time go and was told the European hot spot was Majorca and the number belonged to Telecom One. If you look on the list in the article none of the Majorcan service providers are mentioned. Icstis claimed they didn't want them being tipped off. The one's that were mentioned were under investigation why didn't Icstis mind those one's that were only using a comparitively few numbers being tipped off? Icstis had already put the Majocan names on it's web site and was advising victims to write to them to ask for refunds. Didn't they realise this would tip them off? What was the real reason Icstis did not want the Majorcan service providers and Telecom One numbers identified in the press? Was it because Icstis was cocerned that the media may discover the scale of the fraud this group were involved in? Another thing to notice. The Icstis spokeperson claimed each number had recieved at least 25 complaints that month. Assuming each number was programmed into similar dialler software, how many complaints would Icstis and BT have recieved for all 3,500 numbers for just that month alone? Just for the record. buzby and Mrshed really dont know what they are talking about. Regarding mis-selling or fraud concerning the use of illegal dialler software (rogue diallers). The victims have the same consumer/ criminal protection has in any other market place where mis-selling or fraud is being committed.