Thanks again, the problem I can see is that they will say that the vehicle is worth less than the collection costs so by not collecting they are actually saving me money !

Can anyone tell me if I am liable for the repo costs because if not then yes, even if they can only get £50 for the vehicle it will reduce the amount outstanding.

My opinion is that by not repo'ing they are in breach of the order and they have no right to any money claim until they have done this ? Am I right ? My only problem is that I was 99% sure the dodgy DN would have won me the original hearing but the judge just didnt care and was totally biased towards the claimant.

The Judge was an idiot! The fact that they 'altered' the DN to make it compliant is dispicable!! I think it may have helped if you had added a few more bits to your defence in order to totally discredit them, like how unreasonable they were when you approached them with your difficulties and how they refused to negotiate on the payment terms and how you were only 8 payments off completion. That's why I think you need to object to this or you will be immediately liable for the total balance irrespective of your efforts to negotiate in the first place and their dodgy DN and their corrupt practices!

The difference with your case is that the order states "Recovery of goods" rather than the more common "Return of goods", and the costs have already been decided so I can't see how they can add more costs especially as they've already added £1100 in 'Legal Fees'!??

The account statement I received recently showed over £1100 in charges added to the account however the claim is purely for the outstanding payments due and £40 costs.

Well I suppose it depends what outcome you would like, are you happy to keep the lorry and pay the outstanding balance?

I physically have the money in my account to pay this in full at this moment, however if I do I won't be able to pay my other, priority bills. But I am tempted just to sort the problem out and save my strength for other issues that will come to a head eventually !!

In that case it may be worth attending just to make an offer to settle, you may be able to agree a lower amount in full and final if you just want an end to it.

Thanks, can the judge make that decision ? For example if I offered an amount and he thought it reasonable can he order them to accept it ? I had tried to settle previously but they were not having any of it, offering less than 10 % off and nothing more.

The judge can't order them to accept on the day, you'd have to go down the time order route for that to happen but I think that may have been more effective the first time around. I'm not sure that option is still available, although it might be - can't hurt to try!

Did they make the 10% offer previously in front of the judge or just to you? They may be more reasonable in the court room...

There offer was prior to the last court hearing and in response to my offer to settle out of court.

Well then it may be worth going to see if you can thrash out a deal, you never know you may be able to come to some sort of mutually acceptable agreement.

Alternatively you could also consider asking the judge to grant a time order

Desperatly trying to sort this out prior to tuesday. can anyone confirm if the cost of collecting the lorry is my responsibility or theirs ? If it is theirs they are being unreasonable as any cost they can get for the lorry will reduce the balance.

Desperatly trying to sort this out prior to tuesday. can anyone confirm if the cost of collecting the lorry is my responsibility or theirs ? If it is theirs they are being unreasonable as any cost they can get for the lorry will reduce the balance.

IMO

The cost has to be theirs as it's their vehicle.

Great, well that means by not collecting they are just being crafty.

Ok, spoke to the court again. They say by the judge ordering a hearing against the wishes of the claimant it will mean he would like me to attend to speak.

I now have got a third opportunity to win this, really could do with some help as this will be my last chance to do something

I now have got a third opportunity to win this, really could do with some help as this will be my last chance to do something

Now would seem to be the time to start that new thread [as previously suggested by DD] complete with attention grabbing headline and if it's a rainy weekend you'll get the assistance that you require!

Ok, spoke to the court again. They say by the judge ordering a hearing against the wishes of the claimant it will mean he would like me to attend to speak.

 

I now have got a third opportunity to win this, really could do with some help as this will be my last chance to do something

So glad you've changed your mind

IMO

 

The cost has to be theirs as it's their vehicle.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the order states "recovery" of the goods and not "return" and he has already awarded them their costs. So basically the judge has ordered that they be permitted to repossess and which costs are payable! Nothing about paying anything else, that's their responsibility. If they want to add the recovery charges at a later date they will have to come back to court for the monetary hearing

NEW THREAD HERE - !!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?274963-In-court-Tuesday-HELP-!&p=3105595#post3105595

Due in court tommorrow morning guys, can either fight, although not sure what I am fighting now as the judge is only going to be concerned with changing the order rather than the original judgement. Or I can just pay in full but be short of paying other, more important things. Any advice please ?

Hi Billy no mates:eek:

I'd go and explain to the Judge that you are a LIP and totally confused as to what is going on.

Explain if necessary what happened at the last hearing [and about the non compliant D/N if you want] and that you feel that you have complied with the Judge's decision whilst t'others haven't.

Assuming the Judge has had a good weekend he should explain the proceedings to you--if in doubt,ask.

Good luck:) and look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

Thanks midenmess, I really would like to hope I could sway the judge, I just feel I am delaying the inevitable.

Thanks midenmess, I really would like to hope I could sway the judge, I just feel I am delaying the inevitable.

If you don't go,you'll never know--why make it easy for those dicks?

A fight is never lost until you give in!

In my opinion only,by not attending the Judge might assume that you don't object to their request!

If I were in your position I would draft up a skeleton argument outlining all your points from the return of goods hearing and adding a few more in regarding their unreasonable conduct. I would object to the conversion of a return of goods judgement into a monetary claim and respectfully request that should they wish to apply for a monetary amount they would be required to replead their case giving you the opportunity to defend.

I would stress the relevance of Part 1 of the CPR and request that in order to further the overriding objective their application be dismissed as they are claiming an unfair advantage.

A court order was issued and they have failed to adhere to it, put them to strict proof that they have carried out an independent inspection with regard the exact and true value of the vehicle therefore giving you an accurate figure for your actual liability. You are a consumer and a litigant in person, they are attempting to use their position to disadvantage you.

I would make a big deal of their "alterations" to the DN and perhaps gently intimate forgery??

I personally believe your best bet here would be to stress how much of an unfair disadvantage you have been put at in the entirety of this issue and that the overriding objective has not been achieved.

Be sure to state that you never had any intention of trying to avoid your obligations and this can clearly be shown by the fact that there were only 8 payments remaining on the agreement and you would have previously been happy to come to some arrangement to pay these had the lender been willing to negotiate with you. Instead they refused to negotiate and decided to use the court as a primary means of action rather than a last resort, possibly infer waste of the court's time, abuse of process and again the overriding objective!

As much as you can focus in on their unreasonable conduct and repeatedly and clearly bring this to the court's attention.

The bottom line is that you experienced financial hardship and primarily approached them with a perfectly reasonable request for a temporary negotiation on the payments but they were not at all sympathetic to your situation and their only intention was to use the court to retake the vehicle that you had already paid over 75% towards.

If you are in a position to then I would add that you are willing to make a full and final settlement offer of say 50% of the outstanding balance in order to put an end to this matter and the agreement satisfied. It's obviously up to you what you want to offer, but I would think 50% would make you look reasonable. However, before you make any offers just take note of the attitude of the judge and base your offer, if you need to make one at all, on your interpretation of what stance the judge has taken on all you've said so far. It may be that the judge totally agrees that they have breached the overriding objective and that you were treated unfairly in the first hearing and so might be ready to order that you don't have to pay anything else.

Don't forget to add that you have received your statement and they have added £1100 in "legal fees" even though you have already paid them the amount the judge awarded. Irrespective of the fact they are not claiming them now, had it not been for the court's involvement, they would have expected you to pay them that "extra" amount after they had taken off the proceeds of the repo which in the end would leave you with a larger liability than what you started with!

Overall keep it as short and sweet as possible.

These are just my opinions and only what I would do if I were in your position, best of luck for tomorrow x

What have you got to lose by attending?

You may find the judge is willing to listen to your original arguments so go fully prepared. If not, at least you can argue why no more charges should be added, and if they aren't taking away the vehicle, that cost should be taken off.

Don't use money for priority bills to pay for this. If you have time, try and work out a list of all your income, all your bills, so the judge will be able to see what you can realistically afford.

If you don't attend the judge will just go on what the claimant says, so get there and make sure you have your say!!

Good luck.