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Kiff v RBS_Default Notice Advice


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Hi everyone

 

Just starting with this claim. I thought I'd paid out a lot in charges to this bank, but was really shocked with the total of £3,862!!!

 

I would like to send out the Prelim letter today. Should I mention in there that I would like them to remove the Default Notice on the account at this stage, or does that come later when they make me a full and final settlement offer?

 

I really want to follow the right path with this one.....can anyone help me out with some advice please???

 

:???: Cheers, Kiff

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kiff

 

Concentrate on your claim.

 

Once you've got something back from the bank, it lends a bit of weight to your argument with the Credit Reference Agencies in getting defaults/late/non-payment markers removed.

 

 

T.

"Weasel (n): any person or group that operates in that vast grey area between good ethical behaviour and the sort of activities that might send you to jail".

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've just realised that the letters in the template library have been updated since I used them for my Barclays claim in March this year.

 

What should I do? Neither my PreLim or LBA mention about the terms and conditions etc. Is this going to affect my claim? I sent my LBA on the 30 May.

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Cheers Kiff

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Thanks Bennyowen, you've made me feel a whole lot better.

 

My 14 days is up tomorrow, so shall draft up my POCs. I'll use the one in the template library and I'll post it on here before I send it, just to double check I've put in all I need to!

 

Thanks again.

 

Kiff

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So here is my POC. Please could someone check that it looks okay. I've just used the one in the template library. Does it need any additions in light of the Lloyds case?

 

And where do I put in something about the default notice removal, or am I too late for this? I didn't realise that I needed to include in the Prelim and LBA letters, so I'm hoping I haven't messed up big time.

 

1. The Claimant had an account xxx ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around xxx and closed on or around xxx.

 

2. During the period in which the Account was operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £3,862.00 and any interest charged thereon;

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from 15.02.02 to 13.06.07 of £852.75 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.85.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

 

Signed: xx

 

Date:

Thanks in advance

Kiff

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Thanks everso Bennyowen.

 

Will do that.

 

It's really hard to know what to do, some people seem to be delaying it and having claims settled at 7 wks, others stick to their timetable and go down the court route, which does appear to work too. I guess I feel that I should stick to my guns and go for it and send off my N1 tomorrow. It always feels really scary - I'm just hoping that there are no holes in my claim.

 

Sorry waffling on!

 

Will keep you all posted.

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Just completing the N1 form. Can anyone double check for me the address I send put down for the Defendant. It says the Litigation team, London on Livelylad's sticky. And then the RBoS's Registered address is 36 St Andrews Sq, Edinburgh. I assume I put the London one but just needed confirmation from all you experienced folks out there.

 

Thanks

Kiff

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've received my Notice of Issue from my local court and RBS have until 11 July to acknowledge. This is getting exciting, and the interest is racking up daily. I'm looking at a trip to Singapore to visit an old friend, though it will more than likely go towards the loft conversion!!

 

Cheers

Kiff

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Well I have received an Acknowledgement from Cobbetts, saying they have been instructed by the defendants and enclose acknowledgement of service.

 

I guess this is fairly standard. By my workings, they need to submit their defence by 25th (though my local court says they are 5 working days behind with their paperwork on these claims), so unless Cobbetts send me a copy of the defence, I don't expect anything from the local court until beginning of August.

 

Will keep posting!

Kiff

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Latest news - Hubby says there is a letter and defence from Cobbetts waiting for me for when I get in from work! Uh oh...At least things are on the move again.

 

Will post later with the details when chores are done for the day.

 

Cheers

Kiff :-)

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Well here it is, Cobbetts Defence letter -

 

 

'KIFF V RBoS PLC

 

1. This defence is filed and served without prejudice to the defendant's case that the POC do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the defendant to recover the bank charges (and interest thereon) referred to in the POC or any other sum(s). In the event that the claim is not properly particularised then the defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

 

2. On allocation the defendant invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the court to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the claimant the opportunity to properly particularise the claim.

 

3. No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the claimant's bank account.

 

4. In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regs 1999 ('the regulations') and/or the common law, the claimant is required to identify:

4.1 (a) the regulations of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999 (the regulations'); and (b) the principles of common law relied upon by the claimant in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are unenforceable; and

4.2 the contractual provision(s) that the claimant allege are invalid by reference to the Regulations.

 

Until such time as these regulations/provisions are identified the defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegation referred to in paragraph 4 above. The defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the claimant identifies the relevant contractual information.

 

5. In relation to the case of the claimant that the charges are unreasonable within the meaning of section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (SGSA) the defendant pleads as follows:

5.1 The claimant is required to plead and prove the necessary factors (referred to in section 15 SGSA) concerning the contract between the claimant and defendant wbich mean that pursuant to SGSA section 15 there is an implied term that the claimant pay a reasonable charge for the service under the contract.

5.2 Further, the claimant is required to plead and prove (a) that the bank charges which have been debited are unreasonable; (b) all facts and matters relied upon by the claimant in support of this case and © what charges would have been reasonable.

5.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the defendant has acted in breach of SGSA section 15.

5.4 In the circumstances (save as appears below) the defendant is unable to plead to this allegation beyond denying that it has acted in breach of SGSA section 15 as alleged or at all. The defendant reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the defects in the pleaded cased referred to in paragraphs 5.1 - 5.3 above are addressed.

5.5 It is the case of the defendant that the contract between the claimant and the defendant does not fall within SGSA section 15 because (a) the consideration for the service would be determined by the contract between the claimant and the defendant and (b) was not left to be determined in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealings between the claimant and the defendant.

 

6. The claimant's claim for costs not being sufficiently particularised, the defendant is unable to plead and reserves the right to plead upon further particulars.

 

7. Save as hereinbefore appears the defendant joins issue with the claimant on the claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

signed by Richard Mark Dean Webb

Cobbetts '

 

Can anyone advise next course of action? Do I just wait for AQ from the courts and go from there? Should I send Cobbetts an up-to-date SOC incase they haven't got one?!

 

Many thanks in advance,

Kiff :)

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Kiff

 

As long as you included an up to date Schedule of Charges with your N1 then there is no need to send another one to Cobbetts. Just wait to hear from the court about an AQ.

 

Good luck.

 

FC

Barclaycard: SETTLED AFTER LBA

Barclays 1: AT COURT

Barclays 2: WITH FOS

Capital One: SETTLED AFTER N1

Egg: SETTLED AFTER LBA

HFC: S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

Lloyds TSB: S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - WITH Information Commissioners Office

RBS: AT COURT

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Thanks for the support FC. I've read up on loads of threads but then seem to get a bit paniky, wondering if I should actually be doing/sending something else! I've sent my SOC with my N1, so Cobbetts should have a copy. I'll update when I've heard from the court.

 

Thanks again

Kiff

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I have received an N150 AQ form and a copy of the defence from my local court today. The AQ needs to be in by 9 Aug. Not sure why I've been sent this type rather than the N149 - should I ring the court and query it, or just get on and complete what I can of it?

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Kiff

 

I would have thought an N149 more appropriate as your claim is under £5000, unless it is unusually complicated?

 

No harm in asking the court why you got an N150 although it doesn't really matter because you can still request directions and a small claims hearing using the N150.

 

Up to you really.

 

FC

Barclaycard: SETTLED AFTER LBA

Barclays 1: AT COURT

Barclays 2: WITH FOS

Capital One: SETTLED AFTER N1

Egg: SETTLED AFTER LBA

HFC: S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

Lloyds TSB: S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - WITH Information Commissioners Office

RBS: AT COURT

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks FC

 

After the initial panic of seeing a different form, on reading it I can now see that it isn't that different and have completed it now. I am also going to attach the Draft Directions and Other Information (given below) -

Other Information

If the court is in agreement, it is respectfully suggested that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

I believe the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute, and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

If the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, I believe the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, I would respectfully request that this claim is allocated to the small claims track, and estimate that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Can anyone confirm if this is still okay to use? I got it off this site, somewhere! I have to hand deliver it on Weds so any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Kiff

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Looks fine - but if you click on the link for Nat West Claimants on my signature, you'll find further info and guidance on AQ completion. Obviously, for the N150 you complete different sections than for the N149, but all of the requred links are available (including attachments).

 

Best of luck :)

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