I'm going to be brief with my account of what has happened, I know I'm a fool for letting this go on for so long, so please no beating me up over it , was just hoping someone could give me some advice as to what options I have open to me to try to recover this money.

12/2006

Bought House Alarm from eBay

12/2006

Paid for item using credit card via paypal

12/2006

Raised non-receipt issue with seller

01/2007

Seller has supposedly been waiting for a repsonse to his non-delivery complaint to Royal Mail but HAS been ignoring a whole heap of emails. I requested quote for upgrade to better model.

02/2007

After chasing loads, seller gives quote for upgrade. I get annoyed with time this is taking, knowing my rights, I request a refund.

04/2007

Ring seller, confirms he will refund today, says he has been waiting for Royal Mail to completed non-delivery refund first (no refund appears).

04/2007

Seller says money is going into paypal today and will refund (no refund appears).

So there's the brief account. Now on to the long explanation....

I could triple the length of this account with all the phonecalls and emails I have sent him chasing a response and not getting one (or getting a crap one). I DID open a dispute very early on but when we first had a discussion on the phone just before the date of expiration of the dispute, he said he was going to sort out the problem with Royal Mail then replace or refund, so I didn't progress it and of course, you can't open another dispute on an item (I didn't realise at the time else I would have continued it).

I got in touch with ebay a few weeks back because it got to the point where I was getting nowhere and I was getting frustrated with not being able to resolve things amicably. They stated that they couldn't do anything because it was outside of the 60 days. They suggested talking to the seller (thanks ebay) or speaking to the police.

Well before getting the police involved, because I'm a nice guy, I gave the seller one last chance to sort things out telling him I would be going to the police if he didn't. When he didn't make the refund in April I had a chat with my credit card company and they said because the purchase was made through ebay I wasn't covered for purchase protection and that I would need to sort it out with ebay (thanks credit card company).

He then sent me an email out of the blue to say he would be refunding me at the end of April but he didn't so here I am today wondering aside from the police who I am convinced will be of little help (but I will be contacting today in any case), what else I can do to get my money back.

So I throw it out to you guys, any suggestions as to what I can do? This guy is a reputable ebay store seller, I have done everything in the normal ebay way (with regards to the transaction) and I have a history of discussions we have.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

First off, do you live in a TARDIS? Just wondering as your quoting dates in the future.....

Seriously though you say he is a reputable seller, if that was the case then he would have sorted this out by now. Did he give you a tracking number for the item when posted? Is he listed as a business seller? Stay calm with him and try and negotiate either the refund or if you want to upgrade see if he will still do this. If all else fails, then inform him that you intend issuing a county court claim for the amount in question.

Oh, this is such an easy one:

Prelim: Full refund within 14 days or you'll pursue in County Court. Adapt the bank one to your needs.

LBA: same.

on the 28th day, sue. 8% interest, court fee, the lot.

It is that simple, and I wish I had know about CAG when I was ripped off by a guy a couple of yrs back. In fact, I may see if I can find the info from then and get my money back now.

First off, do you live in a TARDIS? Just wondering as your quoting dates in the future.....

Lol, yeah it's April isn't it? Have edited the May dates...

Seriously though you say he is a reputable seller, if that was the case then he would have sorted this out by now.

Ok slightly contradictory there wasn't I?

Did he give you a tracking number for the item when posted?

No, never has.

Is he listed as a business seller?

He has an ebay shop....I presume that's what you mean?

Stay calm with him and try and negotiate either the refund or if you want to upgrade see if he will still do this. If all else fails, then inform him that you intend issuing a county court claim for the amount in question.

Have always been calm with him. No intention of the upgrade now. I would have, but he has been so unhelpful, why should he have my money? So if I want to reclaim the money, I'm best off going through the courts rather than police right? Whilst I've been on these forums for so long, I've never needed to use court so I've never read up on it.

I'm presuming then that the best course of action is to send him an LBA giving him a deadline of somewhere between 7 and 14 days saying I will be filing against him?

Ok BW has posted whilst I was typing.

Thanks for response BW. I can't believe the amount of time I have been on this forum advising people what to do it didn't click for one minute to use the same process for reclaiming this money. How daft of me!

Prelim will be going off this afternoon then. Won't bother with the police...

Yep same process exactly, good luck.

Of course, you can still complain to eBay (but not for a Paypal refund). Also you should update his feedback to reflect your experience.

Ok BW has posted whilst I was typing.

 

Thanks for response BW. I can't believe the amount of time I have been on this forum advising people what to do it didn't click for one minute to use the same process for reclaiming this money. How daft of me!

 

Prelim will be going off this afternoon then. Won't bother with the police...

Quite right.

The guy who ripped me off did the same to about 500 people before e-bay stopped him from trading, to the tune of an estimated £10k+. The police investigated him, and never charged him "because of insufficient info" .

The only people who ever got anywhere were the ones who issued claim. At the time, I was like most people, afraid of the idea of having to go to court. We live and learn....

Sounds like it's time to unearth those emails BW?

Right my letter is written....

REQUEST FOR REFUND

 

 

Dear xxxx

 

eBay Item Numbers xxxx & xxxx

 

I am writing to you with regards to the above listed items which I purchased from you on xxxx. Having given you enough time to resolve this issue amicably, you have left me no option but to seek recovery of my funds through the courts. I am frankly appalled that an eBay seller of your stature would resort to using excuses, constantly ignoring emails and failing to fulfil your promises as you have done.

 

I would like to draw your attention to the terms of contract which you agreed to by selling the above items to me. It is an implied term of that contract that you will deliver an item for which payment has been accepted. If you fail to do this (for whatever reason), you are required to refund the payment within a reasonable amount of time. I requested refund of my payment from you on xxxx and as of today, you have failed to comply.

 

I require that you refund me the total for the two items, £xxxx and £xxxx respectively plus delivery at £xxxx, total £xxxx. I enclose my receipt of payment as confirmation of this. This can either be paid by refunding the original payment via paypal or by cheque. I shall not be held liable for paypal fees therefore I will not accept payment directly via paypal.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a County Court claim at the expiry of the second deadline. Please note that if I have to issue a claim, you will then become liable for my court fees and I shall be entitled to add 8% Statutory Interest, as allowed by the County Courts Act 1984 s.69, to the outstanding total.

 

 

Yours faithfully

am frankly appalled that an eBay seller of your stature

as you have done so. --> as you have done.

you have failed to provide me with that refund. --> failed to comply.

I shall issue a County Court claim at the expiry of the second deadline. Please note that if I have to issue a claim, you will then become liable for my court fees, and I shall be entitled to add 8% Statutory Interest, as allowed by the County Courts Act 1984, s.69, to the outstanding total.

Spell check, and you're away.

its more than 3 months, so you will not be able to leave feedback, complaining to ebay is useless I'm afraid.

I too got ripped off once (to the tune of £100), and wish I had known then what I know now.

Go kick his Arse taff!

Yeah I know, I spent the best part of half an hour trying to cram as much abuse into 70 characters or whatever it is only to be told I'm too late.

:mad::mad::mad:

I can't even tell you how angry I am because the website will only allow me to put 6 smilies in my post lol

Thanks for the edit BW, I did spot the first two but the last two will be added now. Have edited the letter now.

I've seen so many of these cases on ebay.

(Have a read of the forums on there!)

It comes down to the limited time you have to make and escalate an "Item not Received" complaint with Paypal. If you don't complain within a certain time (45 days I believe) and then escalate it accordingly, then you cannot raise another claim against the seller.

SO MANY experienced sellers know the loopholes and exploit them with spurious offers to help you/refund/send another item - anything to get you to recind your claim and be out of time to leave them a big fat NEG.

Go for it Taff. Good luck.

Rotten sellers give all the nice ones (like me) a BAD BAD name!

If you paid using a credit card and the amount was more than £100 then hooray!

Your bank is equally liable with paypal for your financial losses under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and you can reclaim them along with interest under Section 75 of the Act.

This will get your money back but paypal and eBay are known to get very shirty when someone does a Section 75 on them. hey can impose sanctions against yuor account (which itself contradicts Regulation 5(5) of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999).

The law is designed to protect you the consumer from financial losses and any sanctions if you avail yourself to legislation overriding their terms of buisiness.

Are you sure about this? As I said above, I rang the credit card company during the week and they said there is nothing they can do about it and I have to take it up with Paypal / Ebay. As the purchase is outside of the their time limits for raising issues (60 days), neither Paypal or Ebay will do anything about it.

NOT all Credit Cards offer protection on payments made through Paypal. (Just check out the ebay forums to see how many folk have had problems in this area!)

However, I WOULD write to your CC Company and politely ask that they investigate this and refund you, on the basis that you have not received the goods that you paid for and quote the CCA from the above post.

Don't rely on the people at the end of the 'phone actually knowing the rules etc. (Don't you get the impression that they are trained to say "no"??)

Keep us posted on how you get on.

I've seen so many of these cases on ebay.

Well now...

The rumour that ebay is a giant "fencing" operation (not the sort of fences that seperate your garden from your neighbours btw) for the "mob" cannot possibly be true, methinks, even if Meg Whitman's (president and ceo of ebay) business past was at Disney studios under Michael Eisner.

Speculation continues that Arvida, the massive landholding corporation that gained control of Disney in 1984 was allegedly flushed with money derived from proceeds accumulated by the late mafia don, Vito Genovese and later administered by a billionaire family named after a well-known English bottle of beer...(well it would be silly to explicitly state the names publicly wouldn't it). Anyway, the beer family having gained control of the cartoon factory then brought in Mr. Eisner to head the board.

Cripes! Mickey will never be the same again.

Shoestring

Are you sure about this? As I said above, I rang the credit card company during the week and they said there is nothing they can do about it and I have to take it up with Paypal / Ebay. As the purchase is outside of the their time limits for raising issues (60 days), neither Paypal or Ebay will do anything about it.

The time l,imit is actually 6 years (or 5 years in Scotland) for executing a Section 75 Chargeback.

If your bank fobs you off with excuses then open a claim in the Small Claims Track against your bank quoting Section 75 and the Limitations Act 1980 in the particulars of claim.

Right all very useful reading and appreciate the input but I think I'm going to file a claim against the ebay seller. It sounds as though this is the MOST grief I can cause him

Right all very useful reading and appreciate the input but I think I'm going to file a claim against the ebay seller. It sounds as though this is the MOST grief I can cause him

I know where you are coming from.

why should the credit card firm have to pay for this?

Give him hell!

Its easier & cheaper to claim from your credit card with a Section 75, Your card issuer will just debit it out of paypal's merchant account and paypal will debit it out of the seller account.

Sorted!

Appreciate your point 10110001, but it's not about convenience and cost anymore. He's given me the run around for 5 months so I am going to turn the screw on him.

Don't agree it's cheaper - it might be in the interim but if he has to pay my costs, it's cost me no more to do and if it gets to court, I get an 8% bonus, so doing it THIS way is then cheaper

8% bonus, an interesting perception of Section 69 of the County Court s Act.

If you know his home address and you are certain he is still there, then open a claim on MCOL and be precise in your particulars.

If defended, tt will be transferred to the Small Claims Track and you will be asked for evidence to support your claim and the bundle for use at Court. Get these together now.

Its a shame that the Consumer Protection (Offshore Data Centres) Regulations 2005 was thrown out. You could have claimed your losses from both paypal and eBay as the transaction took plaace through their websites.

8% bonus, an interesting perception of Section 69 of the County Court s Act.

Geez, take it easy! I'm just summising to give you a response

In any case, if I get 8% back on top of my £157.....whatever section of teh county court act it is......it's still a bonus!

Just picked up on something you've written above....

If you know his home address and you are certain he is still there

Well last time I rang him he was there - three weeks ago maybe? I shall ring and ask for him later and hang up just to check. Anyone think it wise to send my prelim special delivery to ensure it's signed for (therefore proving he is there)??