Hi there I have done a very silly thing and bought a car without doing an hpi check on it and have now applied for the registration documents and found out it has finance owed on it. Where do I stand now, I work away from home and the car is in a secure car park and the finance company have contacted my wife. Obviously I dont want to lose the car as I bought it in good will. what should I do now??????

It depends. If you live in Scotland, as you bought in good faith you will have received good title. If you live in E&W, you may have to negotiate with the HP company and agree to pay them an amount for them to consider the vehicle 'sold' to you, but in any event, the lessor - the person you bought the vehicle from - has committed a criminal act, and you should seek formal advise as to the best way to proceed.

You will need to give us more detail.

You should have been given the green part of the V5C (registration doc) when you bought the car and both you and the seller should have completed the main part and mailed it to the DVLA for the issue of a new V5C in your name.

The DVLA neither know nor care about ownership, so how did it come to light that the car had outstanding finance?

Also, where do you live and where did you buy the car - I think that the law is different in Scotland?

Sorry Pat, but you are totally wrong about what DVLA know about 'ownership'. They hold full records of who the beneficial owner is, and any vehicle leased, on HP or financed by other means is duly recorded and noted on their database. How do I know?

Release of information from DVLA records : Directgov - Motoring

You will be surprised at the amount of data they hold, and who can request it. This of course is totally separate from the HPI database, which is run by the industry.

As to those who access this data - here's a list of those who can interrogate the DVLAs computers directly;

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_066247.pdf

You'll note that even Experian can add your vehicles to their credit files without your permission....

Also how was the purchase payment recorded cheque or (I hope not) cash

DVLA only know who the registered keeper is and they have no interest whether or not the vehicle is on finance. They have no way of knowing if the car has been purchased on finance. The only time DVLA would know is if the car was registered in a leasing companies details. DVLA now automatically notify the seller that the car has been transferred to a new owner at the same time as they send out the new V5C to the new registered keeper, this is for two reasons; 1)Iin case the car was stolen along with the V5, 2) If it was a genuine sale, then it also informs the seller that they are no longer liable as of the date of transfer for parking fines etc.

Kingharry, when you purchased the vehicle were you given the tear off slip on the V5C? Also did you check the V5 to see who the registered keeper was?

Sorry Pat, but you are totally wrong about what DVLA know about 'ownership'. They hold full records of who the beneficial owner is, and any vehicle leased, on HP or financed by other means is duly recorded and noted on their database. How do I know?

 

Release of information from DVLA records : Directgov - Motoring

 

You will be surprised at the amount of data they hold, and who can request it. This of course is totally separate from the HPI database, which is run by the industry.

 

As to those who access this data - here's a list of those who can interrogate the DVLAs computers directly;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_066247.pdf

 

You'll note that even Experian can add your vehicles to their credit files without your permission....

I cannot see anything in your first link that refers to ownership. The example given all refer to matters referring to the keeper of the vehicle - and this is definitely not always the same person (although it can be)

If you believe that the DVLA hold owner information, where do they get it? They certainly do not know who owns my car.

 

Kingharry, when you purchased the vehicle were you given the tear off slip on the V5C? Also did you check the V5 to see who the registered keeper was?

There may possibly not have been a V5 at the time of the sale.

The last few times that I have sold my or my wife's vehicles (or traded them in) there has been no V5 available at the time of transfer. This is because the V5 has to be sent to the DVLA for transfer/retention of cherished number.

If you are the first innocent purchaser of the vehicle you cannot be pursued for the outstanding finance.

See this link: Regulatory Services - Frequently Asked Questions - Financial Services

I have a similar problem as follows:

In early January I purchased a car from the company that I worked for, handed over a cheque for the agreed value, and sent off v5 etc.

I now have all the v5 in my name, bill of sale from the company etc, however, in early February the company went in to administration due to lack of cash. The company never cleared the outstanding finance on the vehicle and now, the finance company want the car back.

I am an innocent purchaser of the car. I live in the UK. I had no reason to believe that the company was in any sort of financial difficulty. I have had discussions with the finance company and they are making out that I knew the companies affairs and that I should not have bought the car. They are also suggesting that I should have smelt a rat as the car was so cheap. The company had the car valued at £3700 by a ford dealer and that is what I paid for the car so what have I done wrong. The finance company reckon that the car is worth £7500 but, they have not taken account of the high mileage (120000).

I have refused to hand over the car so, the finance company reckon that they will now seek a court order to take back the car. Can any body help? will I get the chance to defend my position if it goes to court. Should the finance company be chasing up the debt with the administrator?

any help appreciated

Where to you live...? Scotland or E&W?

If Scotland, you have good title, and can easily fight this - but even if you have not, it begs the question how your firm could sell you a leased car... it wasn't theirs to sell in the first place, OR negotiate a sale.

That said - since you agreed a dealer-negotiated price for the sale, and were not aware of the difficulties there can be no accusation of collusion to defraud by you. Since you can prove this, I'd suggest the legal issue for recovery may be less straightforward that the finance house believes (especially in view of the high mileage).

They could be bluffing you in an effort to extract money from an otherwise innocent individual. I cannot think of any reason to continue to deal with the finance house, other than to reject their claim, and provide them with the details of the administrator or receiver of the former company for them to pursue any imagined loss they say they have incurred.

If they DO decide to take you to court, I's strongly recommend you arrange for a solicitor to defend your interests, as a good defence will require professional assistance to fight their claim against your vehicle.

Did you ever do a vehicle provenance check before taking it from the company? Also, I assume in addition to the Bill of Sale, you can prove the money was paid over?

Thanks for that. I did not do a provenance check but, with buying it from the company, I assumed that everything would be ok. A number of vehicles had been sold to previous employees in recent years and the finance had always been settled without delay.

I have bank statements showing that the cheque for £3,700.00 left my bank account on 8th Jan 2010.

Would you suggest that I make my point clear and in writing to the finance company stating that I will not be handing back the car and they if they so wish to commence legal action I will defend it?

Thanks

If I was in your position, I's certainly respond, but not enter into any protracted correspondence. Simply state you have received their latest correspondence, however as you have a Bill of Sale for the goods, should they wish to pursue the matter, they should take it up with the company directly (or their administrators) as it would appear to be their customer that is in breach of their contractural agreement.

Should they wish to pursue the matter further, the issue will be fully defended in court and you will be seeking your full costs to protect your interests.

Do remember - this is brinkmanship - you are challenging them to put up or shut up. If they do decide to proceed, they will have to have calculated that to do so will actually profit them, and this is not certain. You can insist that the matter is heard in your local court (costing them more). By demonstrating to the court the you (and others) have purchased vehicles from the company before, your actions were not reckless, and whilst a win is not guaranteed - your refusal to roll over may work to your advantage.

hi

I am from Scotland.

I have the same problem.

I bought a car two months ago,everything was ok, i got the documents, but today I received the letter from Close Credit Management.

"We act on behalf of Blackhorse Finance Ltd. and are in receipt of evidence which shows you to be in possesion of the above mentioned vehicle. As the vehicle is on a hire purchase our client still has an interest in the vehicle which may only be released upon determination of you innocence as purchaser"

I didnt check the HPI before :/

They asking me not to complete the Keeper Questionarre

The HPI shows me that :

Recorded against

VRM and VIN

Description

PEUGEOT 307 RAPIER HDI 9

Date

26/04/2006

Finance house

BLACK HORSE LTD

Finance house telephone

0870 9010606

Agreement reference

507XXXXXXX

Agreement type

Hire Purchase

The lender owns the vehicle until the loan is fully repaid, including the final 'Option to Purchase' fee. If you buy a vehicle with outstanding HP the lender may reclaim the vehicle.

What I can do now? I should sent the Questionarre back, cause I really didnt know that car has oustanding finance and I really want to keep this car.

Thank You in advance

The clue is in this sentence

"As the vehicle is on a hire purchase our client still has an interest in the vehicle which may only be released upon determination of you innocence as purchaser"

In Scotland you should see a lawyer & have him place a lien on it

Shame you hadn;t done the HPI check beforehand, as they might argue that you did not exercise care when purchasing.... However, living in Scotland does give you more rights than our friends down south.

Providing they cannot show collusion with the seller, then you'll be safe enough. Sure, the car wasn't the sellers to sell, but as long as you have proof of the payment and other documentation from him, so that the sale is kosher in every other respect, you'll be OK as in Scotland you automatically have good title, and it is up to the finance company to prove otherwise.

Now, you still have to be careful. Clearly you don;t wish to do anything that will result in you losing the vehicle. I'm assuming you;ve already re-registered the car with you as the Registered Keeper?

The questionnaire is non-standard, and they could be asking anything, as a fishing exercise to increase their chances of regaining control of the vehicle, so I'd resist the temptation and not complete it. Send a formal letter, acknowledging their letter, and advising them that you were at no time aware of their interest and had no reason to suspect the seller.

As you already have good title to the vehicle, should they wish to challenge this in court, you will fully defend your rights in this matter. Should they wish to take the matter further, you will provide them with the address details of your legal representative (but you hope this will not be necessary)."

If you wish to volunteer any information that supports your innocence, feel free but don't go overboard. Just the facts!

"If they threaten action, a few solicitors letters should sort it, you can get someone should the time come.

In Scotland you should see a lawyer & have him place a lien on it

That would be an admission you had no right of title. Since good title exists, it would be a convoluted exercise to place a lien on your property, that is in your possession.

ok, thanks

I don't know how much outstanding finance car has, but when i did HPI it shows year 2006, im just wondering how much could it be. Do u think that I should contact the dealer who sold the car or the previous owner, I have his details on registration certificate. Or maybe its better to sell the car asap?

Absolutely not. If you were in England or Wales, it could be useful, but it is of no interest to you, and any indication you HAVE an interest will make them try to hold you liable.

That would be an admission you had no right of title. Since good title exists, it would be a convoluted exercise to place a lien on your property, that is in your possession.

Not so a simple letter best sent by a lawyer telling them your placing the lien will mean they WILL have to go to court to seek possession. The lien doesn't need to be registered anywhere only with the FC

Afraid it is. It is perverse to seek a lien on a property that is already your own. In Scotland, they'd have to go to court regardless, so there is little point in wasting good money on a solicitors letter at this stage. From what they;ve said, they already know they cannot recover it due to the difference in statute for Scottish residents, the questionnaire is their 'free info fishing' to assess the possibility of success.

A letter from the OP returning the blank questionnaire, with a note saying if they wish to proceed he'll supply the details of his solicitor is usually enough.

Hi Buzby,

if you look back at the earlier part of this thread, you advised me to tell the finance co to put up or shut up. Time has moved on and what they did was instruct their solicitor to send a letter demanding return of the car within 14 days otherwise court action would be taken. I went to my solicitor who promptly responded in my favour stating consumer credit act etc. The finance co solicitor wrote again in response but their repsonse was very poor and had very little substance, was riddled with mistakes and incorrect dates etc.

My solicitor responded again, and then sent a letter every two weeks (four letters in total) demanding that the finance co release their interest on the vehicle. No responses have ever been received and the my solicitor has closed the file.

I now want to sell the car but it is showing as having outstanding finance so noo potential buyer will touch it with a barge pole. How can I get the finance co to release their interest in the car so that I can sell it? Do I need to take them to court?

I haven't seen it go this far before - but whilst you are right, taking it to court would bring matters to a head, you might find a 'Small Claims' action (the quick and cheerful method) blocked to you as you are not chasing them for money, simply an 'action' so that they release their hold on your property. However, I have seen some Sheriffs dismiss this track where therei's no issue of monetary settlement, preferring an OA instead. These Ordinary Actions are slightly more expensive, but expose the litigant to higher costs should they fail. Similarly, it is expected that there will be professional representation (rather than a litigant im person).

An off-the -wall suggestion could be to complaiun to the ICO, that the HPI record is inaccurate and despite requests, the finance house is refusing to update the record to show they are no longer involved, and may order the removal - all without going to court.

evening people,

after reading this i know how some of the people feel.

i am also stuck in this situation, i done a deal with a chap from rochdale in a swap deeal ( car for car) my car was a high proformance car and his was a diesel and the deal worked both ways for us.

now 8 months down the line i get a letter from black horse say i have to pay 10K or give the car back to them, even though the car is not worth that.

now iv been doing my home work. iv located the chap i done the deal with but the car i swapped has changed hands roughly 4 time since then. and lucky enough every one i spoke too that had the car so far has been very helpful in giving info to me on the previous owners. i have even fond the chap i done the deal with on facebook and requested friendship with him but he keeps deniying me. so i know his still around. but all this i have found out in the week of finding out the car was on a hp agreement! so in theroy i have done more work than the finance company in trying to find the person they done the deal with. i have all the info wrote down and the HP company has given me extended time while i make my investgations also ( strange i thought, but good for me)

any help will be greatly appiciated !

thanks in advance

gavin

anyone ?