Hello everyone, I've been lurking for a while now and have been impressed by the people power i've seen on this board. I wanted to ask your opinion on something that happened to me recently.

In January I was looking at my current account, (RBS Royalties Gold) and noticed three charges, one was interest, one was the account fees but there was a third I didn't understand. I emailed my bank contact and he said it was my overddraft loanguard insurance. (I'm thinking WHAT Loanguard overdraft insurance?). Now, I am quite savvy about these things and know that I never agree to every insurance that gets offered to me and that I have, on every occassion when I have reconsolodated or changed my OD limit, refused Loanguard. So, I said to the guy at the bank that I didnt want loanguard. This was in January, in March theye were still taking the premium off, £28 each month. I asked the guy at the bank to establish why I was paying this and he went off and came back saying I had signed for it in March 2000!! It seems that I have been paying it ever since then yet I have never been sent a statement, and each time I was subsequently offered Loanguard I have refused it. I complained and said that I wanted my premiums for the last six years back. (£1300). I feel that it is reasonable for Loanguard to have been in operation for at least the first year after I signed the agreement but that Loanguard, (or the bank...or is Loanguard the bank?) should either have given me statements to show what I have been paying or they should have reviewed the situation with me annually. So far I have been offered just £260, basically the last 9 months premiums. Is the bank in the wrong here? Isn't it reasonable for me to expect to see something from the bank that confirms the service they have given me and what it has cost. I feel as if this ongoing charge is covert, relying on me to spot it and query it. Am I wrong?

I hope I havent made this too complicated!

regards

David

Hi Dave.

Firstly, I'm not entirely sure whether £28 is a loanguard charge. Not that I am disputing what you are saying but if you look at this that Livelylad produced which shows all charges charged by RBS and their amounts for the last few years, you can see that the unauthorised overdraft charge is £28. On top of that £28 a month as an insurance premium would be a massive amount to be paying!! I'm not sure whether someone somewhere - either you or the bank - have got their wires crossed because I don't think that this is a loanguard charge. £3-£6 a month maybe, but not £28. Bear in mind they do couple together a lot of charges under the same narrative CHG ACC xxxxxxxx every month, so some of them might be loanguard premiums, others might just be referral charges or the royalties account charges (if you were a royalties customer of course) and therefore the £1,300 that you have calculated might be a lot more like the £290 they quoted.

I have written an explanation of identifying charges for RBS, you can find it in my signature. This might help you decipher what is what.

Anyway, in response, I must be fair I had a feeling I never agreed to mine either when I one day found out I had been paying it for nine months. That was a few years back and wish this site had been round then . What I would do is request proof that you have signed for it - if they can't produce it I don't think (though I may be wrong) they have a leg to stand on. Perhaps one of the mods or one of the more learned members can either back me up or prove me wrong

Thanks for responding to my post T4FF. Well I can only go along with what the guy at the bank has told me but he definitely said:

"The second charge of £34.81 is overdraft loanguard chg which is optional and can be cancelled at anytime but we strongly recommend you have this in place." I should add that my OD is £4200. Does the charge seem correct for that amount?

It was after he said this that he said he would dig out my approval form which he said he found, (took four weeks) which went back to March 2000. I have asked to see this but havent yet been sent a copy. After this he got statements and worked out the total amount i had paid was around £1300 since then.

Even if loanguard was agreed, shouldnt the bank provide me with a statement illustrating what i have paid and when rather than lumping it in under the title CHG. In every other situation where I am paying for something I expect to see a statement from time to time. Not providing this has made me effectively forget all about it, (even if i did agree it but i am not yet convinced). I want to challenge this but not sure on what basis to do so - any ideas?

thanks

David

Right, for a 4300 OD that seems about right, sorry wasn't considering the possibility you had a larger overdraft. That said, you did mention £28 - if there are any flat £28 fees then they are OD charges.

Ok, so as far as statements are concerned when you get your bank statements there normally is a summary sheet that tells you the amount of interest to be debited next month, any charges that are going to be applied and if I remember rightly it also states your loanguard payment. I'm not entirely sure - been about 3 years since I had mine - anyone else got loanguard and can confirm??

If it is on this summary then you would have received this monthly so not sure that is worth complaining about. They problem is in the way they (imo) disguise it all under the CHG narrative and only on a summary sheet (which admittedly I never used to look at) do they tell you what they are ACTUALLY for.

Think the key to this is whether or not this signed agreement exists, the fact they are willing to offer you a refund smells of guilt! Continue to try to obtain the agreement and if they aren't forthcoming you may consider sending them an lba instructing them they have 14 days to comply before you take them to court. Consider this as a possibility in the next few weeks but try to obtain a few more opinions first

Having used to work for RBS(sorry), we were pressured to sell this and hint that it was necessary for o/d to be approved. I hated selling it more than anything else.

I recall it was roughly about 70p per £100 each month so your charges add up about right.

I also know how shhoddy some rbs filing can be so you can be a bit optimistic about them not having a signed copy of the loanguard agreement.

If they don'y, I assume you could do a different claim for this seperate from your bank charges claim as it is not a penalty charge.

John

Well, it's now July and I still havent seen the signed copy of my agreement to taking up loanguard in March 2000. It has apparently been posted to me twice. They say that they only have a copy (ie photocopy) and that I am welcome to come in to the branch to see it. I complained further about two weeks ago and spoke with the area manager who agreed to refund 12 months. She said she would write to me but nothing has arraived yet. What do you guys make of this please?

regards

David

Another thing, I first asked about this in Jan 2007 and when I last spoke to them they said that they have a copy in the branch for me to look at. I asked to see the original and the gut at the bank said that they only keep them for 7 years so all they have is a copy. Yet when i first asked to see this it was within the seven year period. Is a copy good enough as proof that I signed this? We all know how easy it is to add a signature to a copied document. I am not saying that the bank would do this but is a copy good enough and why am i having to wait so long. They have asked me to come in to the branch to look at this but why do they seem so reluctant to send me it??

thanks

David

Hi again, some months later now and just writing to update and query futher if any good people can offer advice. I eventually received a letter offereing £327 in full and final settlement of my account. I completed this and sent it to the branch it came from but I never heard any more about it and the amount was never paid into my account. I recently queried this with my branch who said it had never been received and would i bring my copy into the branch for them to see. I havent yet done this but note now that there may also be a possibility that it was missold since i had a pre-existing back condition, (slipped disk) before i took this out. SO, taking into account the pre-existing medical condition that may have meant that the cover would have been useless to me if i subsequently suffered from illness arising from this and because of the covert way the charges are routienly applied without a review of circumstances, (ie suitability and willingness of the client to continue to pay), should i be able to recover the fees i paid on the basis of unsuitability and dubious way the policy is applied indefinitely without review? What do others think please? Note that even though i did actually sign the original offer (Aug 07) since it has never been responded to i am assuming that will now be void if they actually produce it, (then why didnt they pay it?)

Sorry for being long winded, i just want to be sure i have got all aspects across.

David